Strategic Command WWI Beta AAR

[stormbringer3]

The AI seems to be doing a competent job in your game. What's your opinion of it?
Thanks.

[HyazinthvonStrachwitz]

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Turn 27

10.07.1915



If the Entente mount pressure on Portugal, they may do so.. no problem.



I prefer to keep my 75 MPPs.
Having Switzerland among the CP would be nice, but it is a long way to go.
It needs additional diplo chits, and success is not guaranteed.



German recon bombers scouted Verdun and were escorted by fighters.
Minor losses on both sides.
Then the German 3rd Heavy Artillery fired 7 shots and lowered the defender's strength by two points.
Another 4 infantry attacks destroyed the French corps.
The German VII Reserve Corps moves into the fortress.
The max. entrenchment is at 8, so it has entrenchment 4 instantly.

This will be a severe blow to the French NM.
Exactly what I need.



After the destruction of the Russian units, I sent a cavalry corps to East Prussia.
In the next turn, I will scout Schaulen and Kovno.
If the enemy presence is low, I will attack.

Around Grodno, there is a group of enemy units.
This is the reaction of the AI I was looking for, because these units miss on other theaters.



My troops in Poland have seen ongoing action since early spring.
They need a rest and reinforcements.
The 1st Heavy Artillery receives overstrength.
This will be very important in the later stages of the war.
Tech Level 2 strength 13 units are killers.



My frontline is stable, but I have no idea what the Russians have in reserve.
They lost a couple of units, so maybe I am lucky and they need to rebuild their forces.
I have one fresh corps from the building queue to place, and I decide to send it to Serbia.
I need to get Bulgaria in the war.



The Montenegrian unit was destroyed on low supply, and this adds 225 points to the AH NM.
I take every single bit I can get.
Right now there are 5 corps on the Serbian front.
In Turn 29, I will attack Kragujevac.



The Ottoman HQ helps a lot.
In the next turn, I will change it to manual mode and attach the units in the north.
This will bring additional readiness.



Destroying Force D will help to defend Baghdad in 1916.



Germany buys a third chit in Trench Warfare, another chit in Subs and in Spying & Intelligence.
At the end of the turn, Germany researchs Industrial Technology and AH researchs TW2.

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[HyazinthvonStrachwitz]

[center][font="Times New Roman"]Dear stormbringer3,

an AI will always remain an AI and not a human player.
Until a certain point, after a few games you can predict how it behaves.
But in general it does a very good job, and it still surprises me (see Turn 28).
Its abilities in serial attacks have been massively improved since the last version.
As I started Beta testing, I had to restart the match a couple of times, because the AI defeated me in Turkey.
Altogether I would say, the AI is almost where it should be.
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[HyazinthvonStrachwitz]

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Turn 28 (AI)

17.07.1915



Both sides have invest a lot of MPPs in the past turn and take a break now.



I need to place a corps in Czernowitz, or my losses will remain high.
Cavalry is not intended for defensive purposes.



I need to switch units, or Trento is gone soon.



The positive effect of the Ottoman HQ is visible.
Russian attack cause less losses.



Here comes a major surprise.
A British detachment (most likely from Cyprus) lands in Tripoli and threatens my rear.
I need to react.. and operate at least two corps from somewhere else.
Although I will destroy the detachment sooner or later, it costs me a lot of MPPs for operating all units.
And it forces me to react, so I don't have the initiative.

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[Sugar]

A British detachment (most likely from Cyprus) lands in Tripoli and threatens my rear.

A well known situation already in the predecessor, I really hoped this would have been adjusted. As you mentioned, to destroy the single detachement - which represents the smallest available unit ingame afaik, allthough its costs are at 40% of an entire corps - you'll need at least 2 unis at min., not to mention the still undefended coastal line. Even if the forcepool would be large enough to buy the necessary detachements to occupy all coastal towns and cities (which it hasn't been), you`d never be able to afford them.

This is completely unrealistic, even the smallest coastal towns should have a kind of garrison, maybe fixed in place.

Next issue is the railway, especially in the region of Adana. Even if the town is occupied by defenders, it's nearly impossible to prevent the disruption of the railway, which leads immediately to reduced supply and production in the entire Middle East, with 5 producing cities and 3 more capitals.

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[shri]

//Here comes a major surprise.//

This is a humungous disaster. In reality except Gallipoli no such major landings were made and this is not for lack of trying. A human player can even land on the North German or Adriatic coast and do overkill with such small detachments.
Maybe a rule to stop this unless you have 1 HQ and atleast 2 full corps (basically a small scale invasion force) is required. It's totally a-historical.
Maybe mini-detachments of strength 5 or something with high defensive but NIL offensive sitting on all coastal towns of all countries is an alternative solution.

This can potentially break the whole game.

[eightroomofelixir]

This makes me wonder what will happen to the Ottomans when facing a human player. They don't have the naval ability to scout the Mediterranean searching for potential invasion landing troops, and the AH navy can't help them as well.

It seems that, technically, a human player can launch a Gallipoli-size landing anywhere in coastal Anatolia (western and southern coast by British/Italians, northern coast by Russians) and Levant when they found a undefended city on the shoreline using their navy; then the whole Turkey will lost in several turns.

Edit: In another Beta Multiplayer AAR in this forum, the human Entente player (Mithrilotter) had already build a special Russian detachment near Black Sea and going for sneak sea invasion, sailing it towards the crucial Turkey city of Zonguldak, which is undefended due to lack of units. We can observe how this similar strategy will play out soon.

[Cfant]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

A British detachment (most likely from Cyprus) lands in Tripoli and threatens my rear.

A well known situation already in the predecessor, I really hoped this would have been adjusted. As you mentioned, to destroy the single detachement - which represents the smallest available unit ingame afaik, allthough its costs are at 40% of an entire corps - you'll need at least 2 unis at min., not to mention the still undefended coastal line. Even if the forcepool would be large enough to buy the necessary detachements to occupy all coastal towns and cities (which it hasn't been), you`d never be able to afford them.

This is completely unrealistic, even the smallest coastal towns should have a kind of garrison, maybe fixed in place.

Next issue is the railway, especially in the region of Adana. Even if the town is occupied by defenders, it's nearly impossible to prevent the disruption of the railway, which leads immediately to reduced supply and production in the entire Middle East, with 5 producing cities and 3 more capitals.

Absolutly agree. Was in the old version annoying as f*** and as realistic as the german landing in the USA in 1946 in Panzer General or Panzer Corps [:D]

[Kardinalinfant81]

Completely agree to Cfant, Sugar etc.

To see this ahistoric issue still not solved in the new game is strange.

There would be many ways to fix it with nearly no change in the balancing of the game:

For example

1. Give Turkey, The German empire, AH (in the Adriatic), Italia (in the Adriatic too) and Russia the possibility to buy a coastal defensce by decision Event. Let's say 500 MPP for Germany payed in 10 MPP for 50 turns and Germany get's coastal guns (or a new unit type infantry which cannot be moved and doesn't have very high combat values) in every coastal town/City from Belgium to east prussia and similar for the other countries named above. Or…

2. Implement Units like the garrisons from the WW2-Games of the strategic command series and give every Major Power some additional of these Units to defend their coasts. Or...

3. Implement a real naval mine Warfare. If i understand it right, how mines are implemented in the new game, every major power can lay a maximum of three minefields (when naval warfare has reached Level two, if it is reserached less you can lay less minefiedls). This seems to me a nice to have, but not a real factor in the game. Why don't you handle each coastal hex of a major power as potentially mined and when an enemy vessel drives through it can take some damage (maybe depending of the level of naval warfare)? or...

4. Simple sollution especially for the problem Cyprus-detachement/ Levante-landings: Replace the detachement in Cyprus by a non movable coastal gun. In this way Cyprus would be secured against small turkish landings but the unit there cannot be a threat für the turkish coastlines...

[HyazinthvonStrachwitz]

[center][font="Times New Roman"]Dear Sugar,

I understand micro landings are a problem.
You might remember that I demonstrated this to you in one of our test matches for the WW2-AAR.
In multiplayer games, usually these micro landings are forbidden by house rule.. at least in those matches I am taking part... as you know.
When you say you expected that this problem is adjusted, may I ask how?
There is a possible solution (see below), but maybe you have better idea.



Dear shri,

even garrison units will not help.
You would need one in every coastal city and in every city close to the sea, and this would be a major amount of units.
But an enemy landing unit could stil land on a normal land hex and then walk into the interior.
So basically it would be necessary to occupy each coast hex, and this does not work.
A complete overhaul of any game mechanism would be necessary.


Dear eightroomofelixir,

I would forbid these micro landings in MP by house rule.


Dear Cfant,

you are right.. but how?
I have one idea, please see below.


Dear Kardinalinfant,

Costal defenses would not work unless you cover every coastal hex, and this is also ahistoric.. unfortunately.
Garrison units will also not work.. see above.
Mines would work if they cover every land hex, and this is also ahistoric.
Solution 4 would work in this particular case, but it would not solve the problem in general.

There is one possible solution: limit the range of amphib units to 2 or 3 hexes.
Not per turn, in total.
This should be easy to model.. the APs simply to not reset at the start of a turn.
If its movement points are consumed and the unit has not landed, the unit will disappear at the end of the turn.
This will limit the potential landing areas, and abuse is strictly limited.
For WW2 games, there are Long Range Amphibs, so the landings in North Africa in 11/42 can be modeled.
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[Kardinalinfant81]

Dear HvS,

I don't think, that reducing moving range oh amphib Transports would be a good solution because it wouldn't only hinder Micro landings (which are the real problem) but also big invasions with three or four corpses, an HQ and so on. These big operations should always be possible.


Why do you think, small units in every coastal town (I don't think you need one every coastal Hex to substantially restrict micro landing by detachements) would be ahistoric. I think small garissons, alarm Units build of militia, police etc. could have been in every town and resist a (weak) Landing operations (by Detachement) until better units arrive.

I even don't think, that garrisons couldn't solve the Problem. You don't Need to occupy every coastal hex, why do you think so. Of corse can a Detachement even land on a no-town-hex but it will have supply 0 in the next turn and can be blocked even by some garrisons. Maybe it is not a complete solution für Micro landings, but it would make Things at least much better.

Naval Mines: Not every mile coast in Germany whas guarded by mines, that's right, but the entente did not know the places where they where layed and the danger by mines was so big, that English ships didn't dare, to drive near to the german coast. And in the baltic sea Germany had to make a huge afford regarding russian mines in the 1917-operations. So such a solution wouldn't be extremely ahistoric, at least not for German coasts, russian coasts in the baltic sea, Italian and Austrian coasts in the Adriatic and Turkish coasts near the dardanelles.



Another solution would be to make detachements no longer transportable by amphibic transports but only normal transports (like garrisons in the ww2-games). So an invader would always have to use a full corps, which is not everywhere at every time available and much more expensive...

[apec]

Why not simply making amphib transports not able to unload the same turn it arrives on the shore?
That will give the other player the possibility to react with his fleet or to operate enough forces to counter the invasion. More specifically a clear naval superiority will be a must to avoid an almost suicidal landing operation, as it was in the real life.

P.S. Dear HsV, thank you for the nice and detailed AAR. I still remember your Barbarossa AAR for SC WiE.

[Sugar]

Why not simply making amphib transports not able to unload the same turn it arrives on the shore?

The effort to destroy a small unit is huge compared to its costs. Your way a det. could block the units from the frontier, and the costs of operating are higher than the det. itself if you send an HQ + 2 corps. This can't be right.

It´s an unrealistic situation if the game is treating towns and cities as completely empty of any troops. There alway were police and coastal guards; recruitments in training, courses for specialists, officers and ncos somewhere available. and local militias in several countries.

Horse soldiers anyone? [:D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpsJF7ZSpq4

[apec]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Why not simply making amphib transports not able to unload the same turn it arrives on the shore?

The effort to destroy a small unit is huge compared to its costs.

That is a fair point. However the cost to load a unit on amphibious transport is bigger than a regular transports, so it does not come for free and I think it well matches the cost of operating a corp near the Landing zone.

[Sugar]

The costs are: 75 MPPs (exactly a third of the costs of a corps) for a detachement and 98 MPPs for the amphib, without any upgrades in amphib. warfare and prod.. The costs of operating are 45 MPPs for a corps and 81 MPPs for an HQ, 171 MPPs in case of operating 2 corps and an HQ vs 173 without upgrades in infra..

If the det. manages ro capture a mine like that at Zonguldak; or Adana the damage has to be added to the calculation, 10 MPPs/Turn in case of the mine and 33 MPPs/turn in case of Adana (with the dropping of the entire Middle East from 8 to 5 supply and prod.; the det. doesn`t even have to occupy the town, disrupting the railway does the trick already). Even if you're able to destroy the det. in the first turn after operating, to fully recover it will take 3 turns after the destruction, adding 22 + 11 MPPs. And the reaction is mandatory, otherwise the det. will move on unhindered causing further damage.

If the det. manages to capture a city with a port it won't be destroyed on low supply and can be rebought for 60%.

And you'll have to keep half an army in reserve to be able to deal with those situations, which is hardly to achieve anyway.

Beside those details, it stays completely unrealistic.

Simply place fixed units witout any attacking value in all the coastal ressources. This way an invasion will take a bigger effort, but not be prevented, so it's still up to the player if he wants to go that route.

[BillRunacre]

Hi everyone

I've replied to stormbringer3 in this thread about the subject of landings:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#4727102

As this thread is for the AAR it would be great if any discussion can continue there. [:)]

Thanks

Bill

[HyazinthvonStrachwitz]

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Turn 29

24.07.1915



Turn 28 was relatively quiet, I expect something to happen in Turn 30.



It is a very slow advance, but at least it is an advance.
It needs to be prepared, but the alternative would be trading units, and I don't have the MPPs to do this.



There are not many enemy units around, so I decide to advance as well.
My first target is Gumbinnen.
Maybe I go for Kovno afterwards.
Taking Vilna would cut Grodno off from supply.



My troops beat a hole into the enemy frontline.
The AI as to react.
I still hope it will divert troops from the Caucasus where the situation is getting more and more critical.



I put a fresh corps from the building queue into the frontline.
Galicia is my biggest concern at the moment.



I am trying everything I can not to loose Trento.
If I loose too many units there, I would have to send German units to assist, and this would remove the momentum from the Western Front.



It it a big step ahead to take this town, but the AH troops fail to destroy the 1st Serbian corps.
Destroying it would leave the way to Nish completely unguarded.
So the AI can refresh it, and the way is blocked.



At the moment, the situation looks stable.
But there are so many Russian corps, I can loose a crucial unit any time.

And there is a Heavy Bomber.. not good.
This unit can put the supply of Trabzon or Erzurum to zero, and then my frontline would collapse.
I need to buy a fighter.



It will take a couple of turns, but I will destroy the detachment sooner or later.



Germany buys 3 chits in Long Range Aircraft.
I want to have increased Naval Spotting in 1916

At the end of the turn, Germany researches Shells Level 2.
AH researches Command & Control Level 1.

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[HyazinthvonStrachwitz]

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Turn 30 (AI)

31.07.1915

In the West, there were just a couple of smaller attacks.
The AI did set its focus elsewhere.



This is a surprise.. no units from other theaters, just a drawback.
Of course I have an advantage here, but this does not help in theaters where I have problems.



I did not loose a unit, but refreshing the damaged unit costs a lot of MPPs.



That happened quicker than I expected.
Not good at all.



There are a couple of units under Fog of War I did not see before.
Not quite sure what I am supposed to do down here...

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[HyazinthvonStrachwitz]

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Turn 31

07.08.1915



Fortunately I have enough MPPs to buy both corps back.



This damage is done and cannot be repaired.
AH NM is at 91%.
If it falls below 90%, all AH units receive a morale penalty.



Up to now, my tactic works well.
Just very few counterattacks, and these do not cause high losses.



I received another Heavy Artillery this turn.
This time it went to East Prussia.
I will start an attack on Gumbinnen next turn.
Kovno will follow.



It was nice to damage a Russian HQ, but two of my units are not entrenched.
I expect a counterattack.



I will loose Czernowitz sooner or later.
No way to avoid this.



This was a big step ahead.
I will attack Uzice next turn.



I decided to strike back.
This is necessary to lower the Russian offensive power.
Unfortunately the destroyed unit had supply 5, so I did not get an NM bonus.



I need to wait until the supply of the British unit it at zero.
Then I will destroy it.



Germay buys a chit Command & Control and a chit in Infantry Warfare.

At the end of the turn, Germany researchs Subs Level 1.
AH researchs Shells Level 1.

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[HyazinthvonStrachwitz]

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Turn 32 (AI)

14.08.1915



And this works without Heavy Artillery.
Once the Entente has it as well, my losses will increase.



This is what happens if I don't entrench my units.



I need to make a strategic decision here.
My plan to force the AI to divert forces from Galicia to Poland or East Prussia has not worked.
A couple of units have been disappeared, but not enough.

Bulgaria is at 85% war readiness, that might help, but it still takes time.
And starting an offense in East Prussia will help as well.
And if not, I need to operate some units from the Western Front.

The AI gives me a bit of a headache.[/font][/center]