The Art of Conflict 2.0

[fogger]

Honestly I don't think it is quite fair to accuse the players of destroying the game, or even wanting to... First of all, nothing is being destroyed. Second, Matrix/the dev team hasn't released a much-awaited patch for eons and has basically totally stopped communicating with the player base about the game. Third, if Matrix wanted player help with the game, it could reach out for it. But instead...crickets.

I think you are reading something into my comment that was not intended.

I have not accused anybody of "destroying" the game. But if we go off and start building a new game from starch a point will come where Matrix will say stuff it and drop TOAW. Then if the new project falls over we are between a rock and a hard place.

This happened with a program I use to run my SMSF. The lead programmer left and the owner of the company had trouble getting a replacement. On the that product's forum people started bitching about paying for support which was very slow in coming and then lack of updates. The owner then said after 13 years they were ceasing support for the program and all the best for the future.

I do not want matrix to do that.

Yes I think Matrix can and should do more on the communication side. Something / anything is better than crickets. The person who has taken over from Tamas is yet to post anything. Not a good sign. If he has not taken ownership of the product he may use the comments on this forum to report back up the line that we (matrix) may be better off financially if we kill TOAW now.

Remember at the end of the day it is all about dollars.

One of my sons is currently working for a startup company. In 3 years they have gone through A$10 million and are yet to bring their product to market. Do the people proposing the new game have that sort of money?

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: fogger

I do not want matrix to do that.

Ditto

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: fogger
But if we go off and start building a new game from starch a point will come where Matrix will say stuff it and drop TOAW.

LOL, if Matrix drops TOAW it won't be because a handful of people are talking about creating a new game which has--being very generous--about a 1% chance of being realized after several years. I mean seriously...

In fact, you would think that this episode would get Matrix to say "Wow, there are people that like this game so much that they are willing to spend a lot of time trying to create something similar because we seem to have stopped support/development of this game...maybe there is some way we could harness that enthusiasm?". Instead--for several months now--there is absolute radio listening silence.

Meanwhile, by the way, I am still working on my XML editor for TOAW almost every day, and have already put out many more updates for it this year than Matrix has for TOAW. So for some of us, it's not really all about the money.

[sPzAbt653]

if all the resources that would have to be sunk into a new game were applied to TOAW we would end up a "Roll Royce" of games.

Apparently the situation isn't clear to everyone. So let me try again, using this analogy - The Rolls Royce has been put in the garage and only two mechanics can touch it. No one else has anything to do with it except for Matrix Auto Transport, who is responsible for transporting the car to public showings whenever the two mechanics allow a release. Read it again - two mechanics only, no one else has even any influence.

So the dream team cannot help with TOAW, help is not wanted, HELP IS NOT WANTED. I've nothing against Matrix or TOAW, best of luck in the future to all of us. This 'Universal Game Engine 5.0' or whatever form it is in or takes has nothing to do with TOAW. Or maybe you could say it has as much to do with JTCS as Panzer Blitz does, or as much to do with WarPlan as Strategic Command.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Delete Matrix from the comments and insert the dev and you have a statement and that's closer to the truth.

Fair enough, although rightly or wrongly, I do hold Matrix accountable for the complete lack of communication...even if they don't control the development process, it seems like they should be able to tell us what's going on (or not)?

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Delete Matrix from the comments and insert the dev and you have a statement and that's closer to the truth.

Fair enough, although rightly or wrongly, I do hold Matrix accountable for the complete lack of communication...even if they don't control the development process, it seems like they should be able to tell us what's going on (or not)?

Apparently not. If you have looked in on many of the other Matrix/Slitherine game development processes you will see that it isn't Matrix that provides the inside look at what is going on. It's the developer. Apparently this isn't initiated by Matrix but by the guy(s) developing the game. Matrix likely has to give the go ahead but it appears they don't bother with the day to day development. They are a publisher, yes? Lack of communication is not specifically a Matrix thing. It happens in the gaming industry a lot with publishers and developers. People can stomp out the door and talk about making their own game but by the time they get anything anywhere near to complete much about TOAW that is currently in development will have been finished.

Found this:

What does a game publisher do?
2 Answers
David Mullich
David Mullich, video game designer and producer since 6502. (He is evidently a time traveler [:D])

Answered Oct 16 2015 · Author has 17.4k answers and 27.9m answer views

A game publisher publishes games.

Okay, here's a few more details.

In most cases, the publisher is the bank. It provides the money to fund game development, since most developers don't have the money to develop games (especially AAA games) on their own dime.

Here are some of a publisher's other tasks.

Finds and chooses games developed by third-party developers to publish.

Recruits and develops internal or third-party development talent to develop the publisher's game concepts.

Acquires film and other intellectual property licenses to develop into games.

Provides technical and production support to its game developers, which may include such things as development tool licensing, use of publisher-owned proprietary tools, localization, and/or porting.

Conducts quality assurance testing.

Promotes, advertises, manufactures, sells and distributes the games it publishes.

Provides technical and customer support.

For online game, a publisher may be responsible for community management and running the live team that develops new content.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Lobster
They are a publisher, yes?

But my understanding is that they bought the rights to TOAW and are thus an owner as well? If so I think that changes expectations.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Lobster
They are a publisher, yes?

But my understanding is that they bought the rights to TOAW and are thus an owner as well? If so I think that changes expectations.

Yeah it's all very confusing isn't it? [:D]

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Yeah it's all very confusing isn't it? [:D]

Indeed... at least Bob seems to think that it is Matrix's responsibility:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Let me say that this is the last thing I need to be wasting time on, but, as you know, we don’t have a permanent Matrix manager available yet, so I guess I have to assume these duties.

OK, not trying to pin anything on Matrix or anything, but can we at least agree that it is Matrix's fault that a permanent manager has not been appointed? Right? Right? [8D]

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Yeah it's all very confusing isn't it? [:D]

Indeed... at least Bob seems to think that it is Matrix's responsibility:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Let me say that this is the last thing I need to be wasting time on, but, as you know, we don’t have a permanent Matrix manager available yet, so I guess I have to assume these duties.

OK, not trying to pin anything on Matrix or anything, but can we at least agree that it is Matrix's fault that a permanent manager has not been appointed? Right? Right? [8D]

[:D]

Like my teenage daughter used to say, "like, whatever". [:D]

[Hellen_slith]

ORIGINAL: fogger

.... Why will Matrix not allow this to happen? They do own the game don't they

Not sure if this anecdote gives any insight or not, but recently, when I tried to purchase III and found that it had been "discontinued", I asked nicely of a chap at Matrix, why is III discontinued and not available for me to purchase? I wanted to complete my collection of TOAW games.

Reply: "That game is obsolete."

Not, "SURE, load us another $30, we'll sell it to you." Just...."OBSOLETE. Not selling it to you."

That, to me, was simply madness. Why not offer III at a discount, even at $10, which might lead to more sales of IV? Or offer them both at $40? Did not make sense to me. As I understand, they really are two different branches of TOAW in many respects...but they share a common root.

At the last, I found that I really HAD purchased III a long time ago, and had just forgotted about it. So now I have it ... and Matrix lost a chance at a double sale.

<sigh> go figure.