Magicmissile (Allied) vs Flaviusx (Axis) Flaviusx welcome

[MagicMissile]

After mourning the digital soldiers for a bit I launched some counterattacks. I paradropped two corps both which might be lost but they help shattering an arm corps. Also managed to destroy a division. Allied lines looks really shaky. But German units worn down too so hopefully wont be too bad next turn. 2 fresh corps land in France which is good they will be needed.

As can be seen US and UK armies really small also noted Germany have disbanded basically the whole of the Luftwaffe.

[MagicMissile]

Fierce fighting in Italy as well. Here the US lost a arm corps. In revenge I shattered a para and a Inf coprs.

And looking at the situation the Axis units look quite weak including the garrison in Taranto and it will be hard for Flavisux to reinforce it so there is some hope I might be able to get to it in the end but I dont dare to hope too much [:)].

[MagicMissile]

And in the east the Germans retreat the the Soviets follow. Since mech forces move faster than inf I manage to attack and shatter one corps. So final tally for the turn 5 allied shatters for 4 German quite a blood bath.

Soviets feel pretty strong so I lower lend lease as the Western allies need to build up again [:)].

[MagicMissile]

If last turn was a bloodbath this was worse. 6 allied coprs for 9 axis including 3 mech and 2 arm corps.
Western allied army in France really worn down but I can now only spot 1 German arm corps in France.

[MagicMissile]

In Italy after a long costly campaign I manage to get to Taranto and next turn Italy will surrender. Phew it was a tough one [:)]. I managed to save one British mech coprs and 1 Us arm corps from the beaches around Taranto. That was very welcome but it will be like 4 months before they can get into action again.

[MagicMissile]

And in the east the German retreat stops and they stand and launch a couple of conterattacks costing me 2 shattered arm corps.

That concludes a very dramatic turn. Italy will now be gone and German airforce now 1/80 of the Allies and 2 more years to go things looks pretty good but a lot can still happen.

[Flaviusx]

Surrender message sent and congratulations to MM for a game very well played. It is a mathematical certainty that the Axis goes down in summer of 1944. I can drag it out that long but see no point in doing so. Fundamental error: I didn't build enough interceptors. The moment the Red Air Force turned up in strength the Eastern Front fell apart. So long as I had air superiority over there I could hold the Soviets at bay and make a go of it elsewhere. This is on me: I absolutely could have lined up 4-5 more interceptors during the 1942-3 winter instead of a half dozen or so infantry corps. The production was there, but I instead made a bad bet in going all in on maximizing the land forces.

Interested in a rematch? I want to see if I can do something with German subs next time around I think. Alvaro insists this is the key in keeping the Western Allies down to a dull roar and I want to see if this is true or not.

[MagicMissile]

Hello,

Thanks for the game it was great fun. Such a hard fought campaign. You defended very well cant think it can be done any better. We can absolutely play another one if you want [:)].

Battlevonwar as Axis is doing well against me I think (see AAR). The British economy weak and lots of resources spent building escorts and merchant marines and burning fuel chasing surface raiders. Still I think it will probably make invasion of Soviet Union a bit weaker so everything has a price.

I think after this game I might go to the poll forum and state that balance probably favour the allies a bit now. New patch of course the nerf to Arm corps invasion is a pretty big deal. But missing out on Yugoslavia a big deal too and possibly the big British commitment to France might also be a problem for Germany. And I think western buildup seems a bit too strong too fast. On the other hand since so little progress can be made in bad weather you dont actually have that many turns to get to Germany. Balancing these games is a headache [:)] and I think it is probably not that far off but maybe a small buff to German Economy would not be a bad thing.

[Flaviusx]

I think the game is about evenly balanced *if* subs are as effective as intended by Alvaro. If not, then perhaps a small buff for the Axis. But I have always taken a pass on the sub war. So I kind of want to see if this is the secret sauce to slowing the Western Allies down. Admit skepticism here.

Give me a day or two and I'll set up a new game, no mirror match though, just me as Axis. I'm not quite the machine you are and playing multiple games at once is more than I can handle.

[MagicMissile]

Haha no I am fine with just one I play too much right now anyway [:)]. If you want maybe wait for the 1.08.1 patch and then start?

[Flaviusx]

Also, France looks pretty easy to me what with the new African garrison requirements for the French. If the British go all in on France, they risk losing the ME or possibly even the UK itself, as you have just shown in your recent game. I don't think it is a good idea for the British to pile into France just to buy an extra turn or two there. It is going to fall in July at the very latest no matter what.

[Flaviusx]

When is the next patch due? If it's not too long I can wait a bit.

[AlvaroSousa]

I read through this as I am taking notes for balance. Maybe making a strategy video guide. Not sure yet. I kind of lean no because I don't want to take the discovery of strategy away from players.

Couple constructive criticisms.

#1 Germany needs more airforce. I build roughly 15 air units = 300 air points. I split between air sups and ground attack. Late in the war I start building more air sups. You seemed to only have ~200. Not only does the air sups maul the enemy planes but the bombers are like roaming + X ground factors in attack or defense.

#2 Why take North Africa if you aren't taking Gibraltar? Maybe I missed it but you didn't take it from what I can see.

#3 Subs.... MM posted he didn't see any. I have 9-11 on the map by 1941 surpassing history. It does slow down the Allies. You sacrifice X production to kill a multiple of X production that slows the Allies down.

#4 In the USSR you retreated too far back that one post. You should be retreating 1 hex at a time. Infantry have 5 opts.
Retreating 1 hex costs them 3 opts just to love in and they have 2 left and you gave up 1 hex.
Retreating 3 hexes costs them 5 opts and they can't attack. BUT you gave up triple the territory.
WarPlan is about time as well as units. Attacking still costs production and favors the attacker. As is they might get some attacks off but it will cost them to do so. Retreating too far back too fast just lets that juggernaught build more and more units. Retreating slowing buys you enough time. All you have to do is hold moral hex and have VPs to win the game.

I have had several games with Hadros and we discuss what we did right and wrong. We both concluded that basically the Axis should look for a mathematical advantage in taking territory and production as long as possible with a more balanced force and knowing when the enemy has been beat up enough that they can't recover if we start going defensive. Then we look to slowly retreat to win the game on VPs.

I will be looking at other AARs here and seeing what players are doing, where the flaws are, and if the leaning on Allied advantage is true or is a matter of play. IMO playing the Axis is harder than playing the Allies. You can screw up 50 ways from Sunday as the Allies and still win. As the Axis you need meticulous planning and resource management. This isn't purposely build into the game but just a matter of history. Any game like this requires a pretty good Axis player to be competitive.

[Flaviusx]

I screwed up the AF builds. No question about it.

But once that mistake was made a deliberate and gradual retreat in Russia was not going to work. So I ran. He had complete air superiority from the very first 43 clear turn. The Red Air Force massively outnumbered the Luftwaffe 2-1 and a gradual retreat would have resulted in large encirclements given the mass of Soviet armor in the northern sector. This was all path dependent and I had to take the lumps I did.

I'm going to try subs for real next time around.

I invaded NA because I wanted to take out Vichy France early on and not just hand over NA for free. I think ignoring Vichy France is a mistake because the allies can simply take Portugal, build up there and take out Spain in one turn and then make a beeline for France proper. Getting Vichy out of the way early makes this Iberian option less attractive for the Allies -- Germany can immediately flood Spain. Parenthetically, you might want to do something about the Spanish. They are too easily knocked out from Portugal.

And as it turned out MM was dissuaded from Iberia and got caught up in a very rough Italian campaign that nearly blew up on him. I'm more than happy with my Italian defense. I almost shut down the Allies hard. It could have gone the other way. Literally 1 more German mech unit in the theater might have swung the result.

[MagicMissile]

I think it was its supposed to come this week. But I dont think there were any major changes so we can start when you want.

[MagicMissile]

I am too keen to follow history sometimes and Italy have been so easy to take out in earlier games. I also wanted to try to attack such a strongly prepared defense head on to see what I could accomplish.

Yes Italy was very difficult. Now with 2 ops when invading Sicily will be hard when it is so packed with units. Only thing I was thinking maybe you let me into Italy a bit too easy thinking that the strait of Messina on the tip must be fairly defensible.

Taking Gibraltar without Spain is not easy. I always build 6 AA as the UK either for Malta or Gibraltar and usually I settle for a 20 point corps but the UK shouldn´t have too much of a problem setting up a 30 point corps there.

Also I ask the question again if anyone knows how many VP hexes and for how long you need to hold them to actually get a Axis win if you survive to the end of the game.

[Flaviusx]

I let you in to the boot deliberately. I was hoping to suck you into a grind where you could not easily resupply your troops; the logistics down there are pretty crap. But in retrospect I needed to put more armor down there to make this work.

[MagicMissile]

Devious plan [:)] and yes it is but the land units didnt get that tired but airunits were at the end. Tried to circle them out a bit to Malta and North Africa and Sardinia and of course I spent a lot of supply trucks I am a bit of a supply truck junkie [:)] also having some air in Greece helped out a bit too so wasnt completely wasteful to invade there.

[MorningDew]

An Allied Portugal/Spain strategy feels very ahistorical to me. That's where I struggle with these games sometimes. There is no political penalty, whereas in the real war, there would have been a big penalty for the Allies doing that.

No idea what can be done about it, but just doesn't feel right. Perhaps a big VP penalty is an option?

[Flaviusx]

An Iberian allied strategy was possible. I don't have any objections to this, really. My only problem is I think Spain is a bit too easy to knock out as things stand. It needs to be toughened up some.