Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) - '43 GC

[Gam3r]

That was bold move.

STAVKA reinforce the area with a fresh rifle and tank army to counter that threat.

2 pz div and 1 mot div is isolated.

Now it is blizzard time.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Gam3r

That was bold move.

STAVKA reinforce the area with a fresh rifle and tank army to counter that threat.

2 pz div and 1 mot div is isolated.

Now it is blizzard time.

That was a wild swing of weather But yeah that is a bold move on the German part. Can't wait to see the pictures with counters on them.

[jubjub]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Gam3r

That was bold move.

STAVKA reinforce the area with a fresh rifle and tank army to counter that threat.

2 pz div and 1 mot div is isolated.

Now it is blizzard time.

That was a wild swing of weather But yeah that is a bold move on the German part. Can't wait to see the pictures with counters on them.

Beats getting endlessly ground down by Guards Rifle Corps.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Gam3r

That was bold move.

STAVKA reinforce the area with a fresh rifle and tank army to counter that threat.

2 pz div and 1 mot div is isolated.

Now it is blizzard time.

That was a wild swing of weather But yeah that is a bold move on the German part. Can't wait to see the pictures with counters on them.

Beats getting endlessly ground down by Guards Rifle Corps.

I think it is GREAT! It was a good chance and you took it. I LOVE it. It isn't the first blizzard so it is all good.

[jubjub]

Cut the rail line to V-L and save my isolated divisions. Start pushing into the salient to reduce the area I have to defend. It shouldn't be possible to counter attack from that side of the salient anymore.

[jubjub]

Losses. Gam3r tried some airfield bombing. It didn't go very well. Also bombed my railyard in Vyazma, which did a lot of damage, but at a steep price. Didn't seem to impact the freight through Vyazma too much.

Those AFV losses though [X(] 240 losses is steep for me too, but I'll take 10:1 any day. Panzer III's are about to be obsolete anyway.

About 25,000 of those losses are axis allies. They've done a fine job taking some L's for the Germans.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Cut the rail line to V-L and save my isolated divisions. Start pushing into the salient to reduce the area I have to defend. It shouldn't be possible to counter attack from that side of the salient anymore.

Be interesting now to see the Soviet supply in the VL salient with the Main dual track cut from Moscow relying on two single tracks feeding the Leningrad area.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Losses. Gam3r tried some airfield bombing. It didn't go very well. Also bombed my railyard in Vyazma, which did a lot of damage, but at a steep price. Didn't seem to impact the freight through Vyazma too much.

The numbers seem to speak of a German victory in the air

[jubjub]

It's officially 1943, and with the national morale dropping 5 points, the quality of the standard German divisions will soon be on par with the Soviet Guard formations.

The main axis of the Soviet attack has been falling on the area east of Bryansk. 2nd Army and 2nd Panzer Army are faced with a wall of Guard Rifle Corps backed up by on-map artillery divisions. These two armies are currently on the back foot, retreating about 10 miles each turn. Fortunately, divisions are finally starting to trickle in from France, so hopefully they can reinforce before the situation becomes a rout.

[jubjub]

Map situation

[jubjub]

I'm chronically short AP. Does anyone else have this problem?

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

I'm chronically short AP. Does anyone else have this problem?

I remember someone saying somewhere on the forums that AP was in abundance for both sides. But hey I have slept a couple times since I read that and it could have been a dream(I doubt it though). Now having said that I always seem to be short AP with the Germans all the time.

[jubjub]

Air Update

So far, the new ground attack rule that arbitrarily changes the target from unit to interdiction is not only a terrible idea, but it seems to be busted in terms of implementation as well.

The Soviets ran some ground attack - unit attacks during their turn, and 100% of them were converted to interdiction. These units did not move the prior turn, and there was a division + regiment in one of the targeted hexes, and two regiments in the other. Apparently regiments are now immune to ground attack.

More on this issue to come...

[jubjub]

Air losses:

Interpret these results as you will. For me, it suggests that VVS is under-powered and also shouldn't fly in snowstorms. Note that the higher German losses turns 82-83 were from flying ground attack during snow storms - not from A2A combat.

Soviets are losing planes a rate of 60-80% every sortie as my best guess.

[jubjub]

German airplane stocks.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: jubjub


So far, the new ground attack rule that arbitrarily changes the target from unit to interdiction is not only a terrible idea, but it seems to be busted in terms of implementation as well.

O.O

You are going to hurt someones feelings with what you posted ;-P



So is the conversion like 100%?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: jubjub


So far, the new ground attack rule that arbitrarily changes the target from unit to interdiction is not only a terrible idea, but it seems to be busted in terms of implementation as well.

O.O

You are going to hurt someones feelings with what you posted ;-P



So is the conversion like 100%?

why?

it seems a fair comment given what he's seeing ... and is one reason for using betas to refine new ideas.

you know as well as I do that what sometimes looks like a sensible easy change (in this case to limit the impact of GA-unit) can generate unexpected outcomes. Still seeing bugs around the city fort concept

[jubjub]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: jubjub


So far, the new ground attack rule that arbitrarily changes the target from unit to interdiction is not only a terrible idea, but it seems to be busted in terms of implementation as well.

O.O

You are going to hurt someones feelings with what you posted ;-P



So is the conversion like 100%?

why?

it seems a fair comment given what he's seeing ... and is one reason for using betas to refine new ideas.

you know as well as I do that what sometimes looks like a sensible easy change (in this case to limit the impact of GA-unit) can generate unexpected outcomes. Still seeing bugs around the city fort concept

Yeah, I'm not super happy about this change. IMO, it's the first change that's been made to the game that's made it worse.

There's so many different ways that ground attack could have been nerfed, and this seems to be one of the worst ways to do it. Maybe I am being a little harsh, but I spent a lot of time getting good at using level bombers. I was planning on expanding on my criticism of the design in another thread and keeping this one limited to the issues with implementation compared to the patch notes.

[Beethoven1]

FWIW I agree that randomly changing missions to interdiction seems to me a problematic way nerf ground attack bombing against Panzers (if that is the real intent behind it). If that is the goal, it seems like there are other ways it could be achieved which could more directly serve that purpose. Some possible ways include:

1) Limiting sortie numbers for bombing missions - since AFAIK most of the complaint is about Soviets bombing Panzers in 1941 in particular, a time-related limitation particularly for Soviets in 1941 might do a lot of the trick here. Although I think there have been some complaints about bombing in the StB scenario in 1942/43 etc also, but most of the time it seems to come up in the 1941 context, with Soviets bombing a Panzer division or regiment with a lot of bombers and then following it up with a counterattack.

2) Simply directly lowering the amount of damage/disruption bombing does against AFVs, if it is actually too high.

3) Make bombing missions get escorted by fighters less reliably (maybe particularly in 1941 for Soviets, owing to lack of coordination with the early VVS). This means sometimes Soviet attempts at mass bombing would get intercepted and countered. Maybe the chance of being intercepted could increase with sortie size? That sounds like it would be realistic to me, and would provide players an incentive to limit sortie size also - if you bomb with fewer planes, you are less likely to be detected and intercepted.

Just my $0.02

[jubjub]

Counterattack:

Last turn, the Soviets broke through west or Kursk with a couple of tank corps. This salient was quickly pinched off and destroyed by Manstein's and Herr's panzer corps.