You're losing sales with no demo/high price

[BlackVoid]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
its probably like HPS Naval Campaigns games, short and with very crappy graphics.

Black

HPS should really hire just one good artist. Their games look so crappy, that even half of the fanatic wargamers turn away in disgust.

[Tankerace]

I think the Early American Battles series (1776, War of 1812, French and Indian War) Look pretty good, but their naval games are God awful in appearance.

[Ron Saueracker]

In all my wasted years farting into a desk chair in front of of PC playing games when I should have been making more money and more time with the ladies, I've come across one demo (ONE!) which made me purchase a game. It was for "Tropico", a nice little build game which is easy on the brain and is fun as hell. All the rest were complete wastes of time, were buggy as hell, and were so limited that it may have done more damage than good.

Sooo, my take on Demos...they apply to only certain types of very small games or shooter types. Impossible to make one for WITP and it would be a complete waste of their already tight resources. I rely on a series of reviews and a companies track record with me personally.

Marketing this puppy is something else. If it were cheaper, had pretty pictures on the box, and was for sale at EB, what would happen? More sales? Perhaps, but I fear not enough to cover the difference in pricing it would require and worse still, a bunch of not so hardcore grognards would buy it, break their brain on it, and crap all over it because it was not what they expected. Much of this crap would be on the web and might harm the product and the company.

What are Matrix doing wrong...nothing glaring because they know their market.

[madflava13]

Concur... This is a specialty product for a niche market of hardcore gamers. Increasing the advertising is not likely to boost sales very much, since the core group is so small to begin with.

[Hornblower]

madflava13
[quote]madflava13 [/quote - your right. this isn't pong after all...

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: Hornblower

madflava13

madflava13 [/quote - your right. this isn't pong after all...

Damn! <throws hands in air> Now you tell me. Gotta rethink my whole strategy.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

ORIGINAL: Hornblower

madflava13

madflava13 [/quote - your right. this isn't pong after all...

Damn! <throws hands in air> Now you tell me. Gotta rethink my whole strategy.

Yes, if you take your paddle and move it really fast back-and-forth across the screen , this will assure that the kamikazes don't get through.

[mashkis]

ORIGINAL: jpinard

OK a few points:

#1 - Only 1 or 2 people mentioned the problem of how many will not buy this based on tis price point. I've been on this forum for over a year and YES, I konw there is good support and everyone HERE likes it. But the problem is they are not expanding their customer base. There is ZERO reason they cannot offer WitP at $40 for direct download. The purchase and download cost woudl probably equal $3. What's better? ZERO "middle of the road" buyers @ $70 apiece. Or a hundred at $40 a piece? Or a thousand at $40 apiece? Ther'es a consensus for what is a "reasonable" price for a computer game and that max is $49.99 - and that's a boxed retail copy.

#2 - Excellent idea about the movie. Matrix, if you dn't want to make a demo for games like HTTR, or WitP, or FG - then make a nice movie for us to watch. Fraps is practically free and a movie isn't going to hurt your sales! In fact, Lock-On Modern Combat sold thousands of extra copies due to the cool videos some END-USERS made.

Matrix - you're in the business to promote and sell these games, and I think you're doing a very poor job with many of them because of this lax effort. The websites do a terrible job of giving you any kind of "feeling" for the game. Something only a demo or movie can do. And your current price-point and lack of demo/movie will only reduce your customer base. NOT a good business plan!

I agree with all of your point.

I am a new customer as far as this style of gaming. I just purchased HTTR and one of my main reasons was price $40 and the other was the virtual tour. I would have prefered a boxed version but I am not going to spend $50 for a game. I also would purchase WITP if the price was lower but now I am going to see if I can a used copy somewhere.

I never understand how these small companies want to grow if they don't increase their customer base especially when it comes to new users. They may argue that lower price will lead to increase in users and that means more support will be needed and this is not the case since forums like this work better then most support help desks.

For example, take a look at UBI pricing. The majority of the games (IL2, IL2FB, Pacific Fighters, Lockon and I just placed an order for Silent Hunter 3) all boxed versions for $40 per game, except IL2FB which was $30. Now this is expanding your customer base and all of these games come with demos and tons of movies.

I think if you are going to offer digital download then you should lower the price and increase your sales. Then you will be moving out of this low volume high prices mentality. I guess I will be waiting for a used copy of WITP and guess what you will not have made a cent off of me.

[tsimmonds]

I think if you are going to offer digital download then you should lower the price and increase your sales.

I would think that demand for WitP is highly price inelastic; that is, changing the price would have very little effect on demand. There is no large mass of folks out there who are just waiting for the price to come down to pounce on it, and if the price had been $140, you would still for the most part have had the same 5000 nut-cases buy it who bought it at $70....

[madflava13]

Irrelevant's hit the nail on the head...

The people interested in this game have been waiting for it since Pacwar came out. There aren't many of us, and the sad fact is that a game like this will not likely appeal to the VAST majority of gamers out there. We wanted this game since Pacwar came out, just like GG did, and we would pay any price for it. Grigsby created the game he always wanted, and 2by3/Matrix knew they weren't going to make a ton of money on it. Break even was I think the original goal. Basically this game was built for a small market, and other games such as HTTR, the Mega Campaigns, etc., were the "popular/profit" types. While it would be great if more people bought WiTP, chances are that we've come close to getting everyone who will.

The fact that someone is complaining about a $70 price tag for this game tells me (and I truly mean no offense) that WITP is probably not for them. Hardcore grognard does not mean someone who boots up the flight simulator, even one as nice as Pacific Fighters, and calls it quits after an hour or two. WiTP is a multi-year commitment for most of us PBEM players, and given that fact, $70 is pennies compared to the enjoyment we're getting out of the game. And trust me, I'm on student loans right now, so $70 is ALWAYS a big deal to me.

So in closing, if the $70 is a problem for you, maybe you'd be more comfortable with a HTTR or similar type game. This one's the big dog, and it really isn't for everyone. You'll be playing it for a decade or more, or else you'll hate it. There's no in between.

[WiTP_Dude]

I think this thread is biased towards those who don't need a demo and those who are willing to pay the $70. Obviously those who don't fit these two categories aren't going to be here posting too much.

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: marky

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Yea, a good starting time commitment is two weeks, anything less then that and you'll just end up deleting it.

This game requires commitment, a lot of us should be committed [:D]

hahaha

[:D]


my mom said i was crazy

or she said-

~all u do is sit at ur computer and play games~

~thats crazy~

im thinkin, if im crazy for playing great games all day and half the night, then the world has lost the definition of crazy, or its just become blurred!

whos with me?[:D][:D][:D][8D][8D][8D]

Hummm Your mother should be quite glad your sitting playing a computer game then out doing who knows what [:D]

[fbastos]

Easy way to produce a demo:

#ifdef DEMOGAME
if (turn>=30)
Tell_Player_Demo_Is_Over();
#endif

Takes like 4 lines (or more if you want a nifty "Demo is Over" message).

F.

[Rossj]

UV is the defacto demo, but witp is far better...I think they should release it in box form for 49.95...maybe they can build up the cutomer base...of course, I guess that means I paid $30 more to be a play tester...you know, that's alright, I really think this is a great game.

[mogami]

Hi, You know I have quite a few games I paid 40-50 bucks for that needed a patch and never got one. I have at least one game I never could get to work and I paid 40 for it.
I know WITP has issues. So far none of them have stopped any of my PBEM games. And I have patched half of them up to 1.40 (The rest began in 1.40 and will go to 1.50 when time comes)
I have a few games that I think would have been really good if the producers had bothered to fix the bugs that ruined them. I search for up dates all the time. Strangly many of the game producers that never patched these games are now out of buisness...go figure.

[Rossj]

for me the bottomline is that this is a great game as is and if 1.5 makes more improvements, that's icing on the cake...I just think that if it were released in box form for $50, the customer base would increase and the developers would make more money...maybe it would provide some incentive to take this game to the next level...uhoh...back to WITP II...map mod, upgraded oob, improved land combat and supply system, better auto convoy...

[mogami]

Hi, Maybe 20 is a big deal I don't know.
I began playing wargames in 1975 and price has never been an issue.
Games that interested in me I bought. Games that were of the wrong subject or no interest I did not buy. I have a very wide interest range so over time I have bought a lot of games. But I've never paid attention to price or bought something I was not interested in because it was cheaper priced.
I am a member of that crowd that back in SPI times bought everything they released as soon as it was released at the price asked. When I went to computers I did the same with SSI.
I guess what I am saying is that I would have bought WITP at any price and I would not buy a FPS at any price (If I could download one free I would not bother)

[freeboy]

for me the bottomline is that this is a great game as is and if 1.5 makes more improvements, that's icing on the cake...I just think that if it were released in box form for $50, the customer base would increase and the developers would make more money...maybe it would provide some incentive to take this game to the next level...uhoh...back to WITP II...map mod, upgraded oob, improved land combat and supply system, better auto convoy...

Hi, Maybe 20 is a big deal I don't know.
I began playing wargames in 1975 and price has never been an issue.
Games that interested in me I bought. Games that were of the wrong subject or no interest I did not buy. I have a very wide interest range so over time I have bought a lot of games. But I've never paid attention to price or bought something I was not interested in because it was cheaper priced.
I am a member of that crowd that back in SPI times bought everything they released as soon as it was released at the price asked. When I went to computers I did the same with SSI.
I guess what I am saying is that I would have bought WITP at any price and I would not buy a FPS at any price (If I could download one free I would not bother)

I agree with these, but the issue is what does the maker want to see, then MAtrix marks up, if 2X3 wanted to give this away, then it would be a 20 game... and of course they are losing sales by not giving it away, not really the point, because in ten years this game will still be selling, maybe as Witp 3 save the world! hehe
I too baught a huge amount of software in the 80/90's, getting to the limits of my machines speed.. and I only regret there is not a good Red Baron for a modern system.. oops that is anouther thread..
I think on a dollar per hour played basis this is right up there with my all time favorites....
for LOW cost[:D]

[Tanaka]

I have bought many many games over the years for $15 to $20 to $40 to $50. And this includes having to buy expansions and all. The companies give out a patch or two and then move on. Or try to rip you off with expansion packs. I then do the same thing the company did. I move on. Everyone of these games I am bored with or done with quickly. I have wasted a lot of money on these stupid games and have never been satisfied with them. And then along came UV and WITP....and I have been here ever since. Never have I given this much commitment to a game and stuck around this long! And there is a reason for this....

Money paid for WITP: $70

Always Fun.
Always Different.
Always Learning Something New.
Grognard Heaven.
Only game like it out there and probably ever will be.
Fans Constantly listened and responded to. Frequent response and updates.
THE BEST WARGAME EVER MADE!!!

Actual Value of WITP: Priceless!!! [:D]

[Greco, Thomas A]

I look at the game price in terms of dollars per hobby/entertainment hour. For instance a 3hr movie at 9 bucks is $3/hr, golf is $25 hr, a good book maybe a dollar, weekend in Vegas-- don't ask. Now Witp is now down somewhere near $.05 and since I'm only in August 42 in my most advanced game, its safe to say the price will be going lower. Also, a free demo is available. Just download Pacwar and imagine what a bunch of nitpicking, anal grogrards can do with that engine if you give them capital and 13 years to work on it.