Lunacy AND Shrewdness

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: ctangus

It's 60 days actually, but the point is still true.

Probably wouldn't hurt to try, though.

Thanks - I forgot. But it's still 59 days too long to help... [;)]

Dave Baranyi

(I'm really, REALLY averse to throwing resources away on lost causes...)

[ctangus]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

koepang will be trap if he decides to move against northern OZ - he can bypass Timor and with naval superiority and RN badly beaten it will be difficult to pull them out

Maybe use the 2 divs to take it but only leave a light garrison, sending the divs back to Oz. While he holds Koepang he could use his heavies to do some strategic bombing.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: ctangus

ORIGINAL: Sneer

koepang will be trap if he decides to move against northern OZ - he can bypass Timor and with naval superiority and RN badly beaten it will be difficult to pull them out

Maybe use the 2 divs to take it but only leave a light garrison, sending the divs back to Oz. While he holds Koepang he could use his heavies to do some strategic bombing.

I don't see the point - leaving a light garrison just invites an invasion, and there is no effective means to set a trap. When facing the results of so many setbacks its much better to pull back to where the opposition is at a distance disadvantage and set traps.

It's much better to leave Japanese forces to suffer in the malaria of Timor and bomb them at your leisure while rebuilding enough strength to be able to inflict a significant defeat.

The issue in this game is to build up enough Allied forces to crush the IJN. In the absence of doing that the Japanese side can stay strong indefinitely.

Dave Baranyi

[Redd]

    Well, just to throw in my 2c, I think that you'd better start concentrating forces in south-eastern Oz. I don't think that you have sufficient forces to defend northern Oz or even Perth if he really wants them ( and he apparently wants just about everything!). I would be trying to bring in as much supply and units and aircraft into Brisbane and Sydney. I think that most of the Oz reinforcements come into Sydney, and you don't want to lose those as well as the ones at Karachi.[X(][:-] In fact the more I think about it, you might just want to hunker down in southern Oz (Sydney, Melbourne and the rest). The more you spread out, the more it is to his advantage. Nemo is all about schwerepunkt, he never comes light to the party, and he always tries to maximise his advantages.
 
   Since this is a no holds barred type of game, might I suggest this: I have read on these forums that if you change the command of North Pacific to SEAC, all following reinforcements will divert to Karachi. Perhaps if you change SEAC to Australia Command they will go to Sydney? If any one has an actual clue on this one please advise. Of course you'd have to change command again later to get them out of Oz, but thats a fair piece down the road.
 
 
      Also, do you have any subs near Karachi? Can you get out any cadres if things go bad? It's possible because it was done in real life, use it as much as you can.

[ADavidB]

Since this is a no holds barred type of game, might I suggest this: I have read on these forums that if you change the command of North Pacific to SEAC, all following reinforcements will divert to Karachi. Perhaps if you change SEAC to Australia Command they will go to Sydney? If any one has an actual clue on this one please advise. Of course you'd have to change command again later to get them out of Oz, but thats a fair piece down the road.

It doesn't work in reverse - you can only send troops from the West Coast to Karachi; you can't send troops out of Karachi to anywhere else.

Dave Baranyi

[Redd]

[&:] Bummer !

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Redd

[&:] Bummer !

That's why it's so critical to try to protect Karachi. But the problem is that if a Japanese player wants to go all out for Karachi during the first couple of Game-months, there is really nothing an Allied player can do about it. The Developers never expected players to use an "India-first" gambit, but of course, if there is an "edge" in a game, some player will find it and others will use it.

Dave Baranyi

[Redd]

    So whadda ya think Dave, should he turtle up in southern Oz or defend forward ?

[Nomad]

I really don't understand why the developers didn't consider this. They considered that the Japanese player might try invading the USA and made a rule for it. Why not a rule that if any base in India is taken by the Japanese then some reinforcements are moved up some. There were forces avaliable to the British, but they did not need to move them to India since it was not under attack. And while we are at it, why didn't they have the reinforcements scheduled for Karachi arrive in Australia after a 30 or 60 day delay?

[Redd]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I really don't understand why the developers didn't consider this. They considered that the Japanese player might try invading the USA and made a rule for it. Why not a rule that if any base in India is taken by the Japanese then some reinforcements are moved up some. There were forces avaliable to the British, but they did not need to move them to India since it was not under attack. And while we are at it, why didn't they have the reinforcements scheduled for Karachi arrive in Australia after a 30 or 60 day delay?

I'm with ya' there buddy! But it is what it is. Make the best of it that you can.[:D]

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Redd

    So whadda ya think Dave, should he turtle up in southern Oz or defend forward ?

The recent change that made all of the northern Australia bases malaria-free makes it much harder to defend up there, because now the Japanese player can grab any base and build it up without fighting malaria. Previously, only Darwin was malaria-free so an Allied player could afford to make a stand at Darwin and let a Japanese player try his luck in the other bases. It was still risky, but malarial bases are tough to expand.

Now, the Allied player has to face the possibility of multi-divisional invasions at any of four bases that aren't quite close enough together to be mutually supporting. And these four bases are very close to a half dozen DEI bases that the Japanese player can build up. As well, there are no inland bases that are safe from naval bombardment in northern Oz.

Therefore, in a game like this where things are going badly for the Allies, it is a lot better to be building up southeastern Oz and defending the Aussie reinforcement locations. That doesn't mean to leave the four northern bases empty, but it does mean to be prepared to withdraw quickly in the face of superior force.

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I really don't understand why the developers didn't consider this. They considered that the Japanese player might try invading the USA and made a rule for it. Why not a rule that if any base in India is taken by the Japanese then some reinforcements are moved up some. There were forces avaliable to the British, but they did not need to move them to India since it was not under attack. And while we are at it, why didn't they have the reinforcements scheduled for Karachi arrive in Australia after a 30 or 60 day delay?

That's a very legitimate question to ask Don and Gang. Hopefully they are looking at this AAR.

Dave Baranyi

[Andy Mac]

Start shipping in Seabees from the West Coast and CD units also the Canadian AA unit and base forces.
 
Trust me karachi is as safe as houses I assume you have a big chunk of your lande forces in the hex prepping for Karachi with massive supply stockpiles.
 
He can hurt you with bombardments he may even reduce the forts but the Urban bonus is impregnable. Pull out the AF its just free points at this stage wait until you have a massive stockpile of Hurris and Spits before trying to rebuild your AF
 
5th Indian Div is not far away as is 25th Indian Div.
 
Every reinforcement you recieve he needs to match 8 X to take the hex as you will always be in supply.
 
I think he has missed any chance of taking karachi
 
 
 

[Andy Mac]

p.s. transfer in at least 1 USMC Para Bn make him garrison his captured cities and dont be afraid later on to use sub borne raiders keep him watching his LOC.

Andy

[ny59giants]

How many engineers, engineer vehicles, and motorized support do you have in Karachi?? These effect how fast you repair damages and re-build forts.

I am starting to feel that taking Karachi may not be possible or take so long that it upsets his other timetables. Nemo will propably gain air superiority, but he still has to knock down all those forts and then over come all those bonuses and get 2:1 odds for him to capture it. Right??

[veji1]

well he gets to use the battleline so that can help, I mean creating Two Bombard Tfs with roughly 3 BBs and 3 CAs each... Rotating them to blast the hell out of the place... then bombarding with planes as well.. I guess he'll need all the troops he can muster... I actually have no Idea...

But taking India leaving Karachi brings nothing to Japan, so i guess he'll do all he can to take, even if it means no going for the subsequent targets...

How long does it take for the CEA to get to Karachi once China is cleared ? Would it be possible that he just leaves a blocking force and keeps the AF closed waiting for the whole CEA to come by while he does something else with the SEA ?

[ADavidB]

well he gets to use the battleline so that can help, I mean creating Two Bombard Tfs with roughly 3 BBs and 3 CAs each... Rotating them to blast the hell out of the place... then bombarding with planes as well.. I guess he'll need all the troops he can muster... I actually have no Idea...

There is a way to defuse the effect of the Japanese battleline, if you still have transports in Karachi. When he comes to attack, whether with the battleline, the KB or both, form your transports into single ship "Transport" TFs and set them to stay in the hex (Destination and Home Base both Karachi, as well as "patrol" setting.) The planes and surface ships will waste their ammunition on each individual single ship TF. Then "pop up" your own surface combat ships to fight the next turn against ammo depleted opponents.

It's a desperate move, but think of it as being equivalent to the use of "fire ships" to try to break up a superior force.

Good luck -

Dave Baranyi

[Capt. Harlock]

There is a way to defuse the effect of the Japanese battleline, if you still have transports in Karachi. When he comes to attack, whether with the battleline, the KB or both, form your transports into single ship "Transport" TFs and set them to stay in the hex (Destination and Home Base both Karachi, as well as "patrol" setting.) The planes and surface ships will waste their ammunition on each individual single ship TF. Then "pop up" your own surface combat ships to fight the next turn against ammo depleted opponents.

It's a desperate move, but think of it as being equivalent to the use of "fire ships" to try to break up a superior force.

Clever thinking -- and this is an "Anarchy Rules" game!

Incidentally, I would agree with the posters about the developers not forseeing a Japanese charge into India -- except that they MUST have known. This problem popped up many times and was discussed at length in the Pacific War forum. Perhaps they thought that the monsoon rules would take care of the problem?

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

There is a way to defuse the effect of the Japanese battleline, if you still have transports in Karachi. When he comes to attack, whether with the battleline, the KB or both, form your transports into single ship "Transport" TFs and set them to stay in the hex (Destination and Home Base both Karachi, as well as "patrol" setting.) The planes and surface ships will waste their ammunition on each individual single ship TF. Then "pop up" your own surface combat ships to fight the next turn against ammo depleted opponents.

It's a desperate move, but think of it as being equivalent to the use of "fire ships" to try to break up a superior force.

Clever thinking -- and this is an "Anarchy Rules" game!

Incidentally, I would agree with the posters about the developers not forseeing a Japanese charge into India -- except that they MUST have known. This problem popped up many times and was discussed at length in the Pacific War forum. Perhaps they thought that the monsoon rules would take care of the problem?

Hah! The "monsoon rules" just improve the situation for the Japanese player because the continuous bad weather in all Indian bases under "advanced weather" negates the ability of the Allied bombers to attack advancing Japanese forces.

BTW - I realized the advantage of the "fire ship" approach in my game against Yank. When I was trying to escape from the Philippines against Treespider I kept my ships together in normal TFs and had them all sunk. When I sent them out individually against Yank his forces ran out of ammo after the first half dozen or so attacks and he had to send them back to port for supplies, which allowed the rest of my ships to escape.

Anyway, when you think of it, it was much more usual for ships to sail in single-ship TFs at the beginning of the war than in big multi-ship TFs. We've just gotten used to using big TFs because of the convenience in the Game.

Dave Baranyi

[ADavidB]

I am afraid that Karachi is doomed. The RAF has been shattered, the airbase is closed and I have begun pulling the 4Es with the range out of Karachi into the Soviet Union

BTW - have you been "withdrawing" your short-range planes? You want to disband as many air units as possible because they come back in 90 days, as compared to 6 months if they are destroyed on the ground in the final assault. But be certain to re-assign them to some other HQ than SEAC first - SWPAC for example - so they don't get stuck in "limbo" instead of coming back somewhere like Oz.

Good luck -

Dave Baranyi

(Been there, done that...[:(] [;)])