Real Life Pilots For Inclusion

[Hard Sarge]

410 RCAF

[Hard Sarge]

418 RCAF

[Hard Sarge]

439 RCAF

this one makes me happy, the late RCAF have been a bear to find any info on

[von Shagmeister]

I think some of the experience ratings are on the high side for non aces or pilots who weren't aces at this stage considering most pilots who are already aces as of 17Aug43 are given an exp rating of 85.
 
ie for 418 Sqn RCAF as of 17Aug43 here are some of the pilots you have included with an exp rating of 85 who I think should be rated lower or not included at all (or given a delay).
 
Stan Cotterill had 0 kills at this time (no combat exp) and was serving as an Instr with 6 SFTS (Canada) and didn't join 418 Sqn until 02May44
 
Robert Kipp had 0 kills at this time (no combat exp) and had just started a nightfighter conversion course at 60 OTU after serving as an Instr. Joined 418 Sqn 02Nov43.
 
John Caine had 0 kills at this time (no combat exp) and joined 418 Sqn from OTU during Aug43.
 
James Johnson had 0 kills and 2 months combat exp at this time
 
James Kerr had 0 kills at this time (no combat exp) and was undergoing operational training at 36 OTU (Canada) after serving as an Instr. He Joined 418 Sqn Feb44.
 
Donald MacFayden had 0 kills at this time (no combat exp) and was with 12(P) AFU awaiting operational training (previously an Instr in Canada). He joined 418 Sqn Dec43 from 60 OTU.
 
Charles Scherf had 0 kills at this time (little or no combat exp) and was probably with 60 OTU (or possibly had just joined 418 Sqn).
 
 
Here are a few extra pilots for 418 Sqn as of 17Aug43 with number of kills and actual rank at this time. Suggested exp rating is based on known biographical data.
 
F/L Beveridge, Massy Williamson; 0 Kills; Suggested exp 70
S/L Frey, Juliusz; 1.83 Kills; Suggested exp 85 (Flt Cdr or Supernumerary)
F/O Jones, Herbert Ebsworthy; 0 Kills; Suggested exp 75
F/L Lisson, Harold Stanley; 0 Kills; Suggested exp 75
S/L Moran, Charles Cecil; 2 Kills; Suggested exp 80 (Flt Cdr)
W/O Sims, Mervyn Harold; 0 Kills; Suggested exp 75

[Hard Sarge]

Thank you

you got anybody for 438 ? (I know, it not active as of Aug 17th)

[von Shagmeister]

Hi Sarge,
 
I've very little on 438 Sqn other than C/Os and a few late war casualties.

[Hard Sarge]

yea, i know, that is why I was asking

now that I got enough pilots for 418 (and others, I can start resetting there delay for the later war pilots)

[von Shagmeister]

22PS/7PRMG (as of 17Aug43), most experienced pilots have only 1.5 months combat experience, many have none.
 
FO Aubrey, Lawrence E.; Exp 60
1/Lt Black, Vernon; Exp 70
FO Blickensderfer, Wendell W.; Exp 70
FO Blyth, John S.; Exp 60
?/Lt Burrows, Daniel W.; Exp 60
1/Lt Chapman Carl J.; Exp 65
FO Hairston, Richard M.; Exp 65
Capt Hartwell, Norris E.; Exp 75
FO Hawes, Clark; Exp 60
FO Hughes, Malcolm D.; Exp 70
Maj Lawson, George A. (C/O); Exp 75
FO Scott, Steven Alton; Exp 65
FO Sears, Bert; Exp 60
1/Lt Smith, Robert R.; Exp 70
FO Snyder, Eugene; Exp 60

[Hard Sarge]

Odd, lots of FO's, most units I see, FO's were pretty rare, wonder if it was a recon thing (like a TO@E thing)

[Hard Sarge]

well, I had two of them, will add these and make changes to the ones I had to put them on delay

you have anything on 3 ? I am totally blank with that outfit so far, GR II/33 could use some pilots

[Hard Sarge]

okay, thanks, got it in

had to cut Wendell down, not enough room for his correct full name

[von Shagmeister]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Odd, lots of FO's, most units I see, FO's were pretty rare, wonder if it was a recon thing (like a TO@E thing)

Originally I thought it was because it was a relatively green unit but other green units don't have as many FOs. Considering USAAF policy by this stage was to try and have only commissioned pilots it's amazing just how many warrant officers still came through the system right until the end (though never as concentrated as seen here with the 22PS)

[von Shagmeister]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

well, I had two of them, will add these and make changes to the ones I had to put them on delay

you have anything on 3 ? I am totally blank with that outfit so far, GR II/33 could use some pilots

Very little on 3PRMG. No real pilot bio details but considering the unit has been in combat since Nov-Dec42 I've made the suggested exp levels reasonably good to reflect this.

Lt Col Dunn, Frank L. (Grp C/O); Exp 80
Maj Hoover, John; Exp 75
Lt Col Polifka, Karl; Exp 85

Not sure if Polifka and Hoover were Sqn C/Os or Grp ExOs but "Pop" Polifka was very highly regarded by the RAF, hence high exp rating.

As for GR II/33 nothing additional to what Laurent supplied.

[von Shagmeister]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

GR II/33 could use some pilots

Found a bit more out about GR II/33

GR II/33 had an establishment of 6 x F-5A as of 03Sep43 so the pilots supplied by Laurent (Arnould, Enfru, Gavoille, Henry, Leleu, Renoux) would be more or less full pilot establishment. This is only for 1e/GR II/33.

2e/GR II/33 wasn't operational until 14May44 (Spitfire PR.IV)

So I'd advocate redesignating GR II/33 > 1e/GR II/33 and reducing it from Squadron size to Section size and have 2e/GR II/33 come in with a delay (as a Section)

[Hard Sarge]

had me confused for a bit, but I worked it out

we had both of them in there already (one is La Hache, and other is La Moutte)

I have made both Flights

had to change the names some

don't have the room for the full name

1 GR II/33 La Hache
2 GR II/33 La Moute (had to shorten it)

hopefully people will be able to follow it (I think once they use it they will)

[Trueknight]

I find incidently some informations about italians pilots of the 51 Stormo. Do you already have everything you need, or it could be of any help? I think i could also find something more from italian only websites, if needed.
Let me know if i can help.

[Hard Sarge]

Yes Sir, i am interested in all pilots, which I am very weak on It Pilots

unit set up is odd, plus most info when I do find it, it is HARD to tell which unit the person should be belong to

to be honest, most of my "good" info on It Pilots are mainly with the ANR

[Trueknight]

Umh...I think i found out much more infos than what i tought before. I think i'll need some time to "filter" it out. Tell me if it can help.

I have a list of italian "aces", both Regia Areonautica and ANR, some of them have reported the death date, the others i think we can assume they survived, and for all of them is reported the "squadriglia" wich they belonged. But, if the new game is similiar to the old one, it will operate at an higher level, the player will give orders to "Gruppi" or "Stormi", so the problem will be to find out to which unit the "squadriglie" belonged.

On another file i've got an OOB of the ICAF at October '43, and BAF at Fall '44.

And last i found some names and rank of pilot died, in the history of the "51 Stormo". It's quite sad that there's much more about the deads than about who survived.

All of this is written in italian.

What of this could interest you? If you prefer, PM me your email addres or MSN contact, so we can discuss about it.

EDIT: p.s. I can understand your confusion...in a couple of hour of search I've been already driven mad by the confusing structure of the Italian air force. And all of the documents are in my native language...

[Hard Sarge]

PM sent

[von Shagmeister]

ORIGINAL: Trueknight

Umh...I think i found out much more infos than what i tought before. I think i'll need some time to "filter" it out. Tell me if it can help.

I have a list of italian "aces", both Regia Areonautica and ANR, some of them have reported the death date, the others i think we can assume they survived, and for all of them is reported the "squadriglia" wich they belonged. But, if the new game is similiar to the old one, it will operate at an higher level, the player will give orders to "Gruppi" or "Stormi", so the problem will be to find out to which unit the "squadriglie" belonged.

On another file i've got an OOB of the ICAF at October '43, and BAF at Fall '44.

And last i found some names and rank of pilot died, in the history of the "51 Stormo". It's quite sad that there's much more about the deads than about who survived.

All of this is written in italian.

What of this could interest you? If you prefer, PM me your email addres or MSN contact, so we can discuss about it.

EDIT: p.s. I can understand your confusion...in a couple of hour of search I've been already driven mad by the confusing structure of the Italian air force. And all of the documents are in my native language...

Hi Trueknight,

Post up any info you find on Italian pilots (particularly Regia Aeronautica or Italian Co-Belligerent Air Force) as there is much contradictory info on some of these individuals. Finding accurate data is very hard for non Italian speakers (like myself) so anything you find may be of use and allow the pilots to be placed in the correct units at the correct time.

Best Regards