Shattered Vow

[ny59giants]

NoPac - I agree with Q-Ball about pulling out a fragment just in case you need to rebuild LCUs. The rest stay to fight to the end. Make him commit as much here as necessary. Even if you lose these bases, he will be forced to keep extra troops there in fear that you will return later.

Burma/China - Do you have enough PPs to buy out some Chinese LCUs and head them for Burma?? You have the supply in Burma/India to rebuild them and it would make your supply situation in China better (less mouths to feed).

Subs - I would have some run into various bases in the NoPac to gain intel using Patrol Zones.

[Canoerebel]

5/11/43 and 5/12/43
 
NoPac:  KB showed up west of Attu and demolished a few small transports.  CVE Barnes is not far away, so I'm sweating the next turn as she flees toward Adak Island.  Yes, I've evacuated cadres of my most important units at Paramushiro (the infantry division and Marine regiment) and will continue doing so.  But Para is a lost cause.  She will fall to the Japanese within the month unless Miller does something awfully dumb, which I don't expect.

SoPac:  The Allies took Baker Island, thus reducing the LOC between West Coast and SWPac.  I think Miller has decided that holding and vigorously defending far-flung outposts in this area doesn't make sense when the war has shifted to the DEI and (tempoarily) NoPac.  In my WitP games I almost totally ignored this area, but if Miller doesn't put up "due diligence" I'll try to nibble and chew up some territory, starting with Tarawa, both to further shorten LOC and provide an alternate and low-risk route of advance while the real war continues in the DEI.

SWPac:  The Mini-KB sortied as did the Allied 4EB from Darwin.  My bombers took some shots at various light carriers (the group includes CVL Nissin, CV Hiyo, CVE Chiyoda, and more) but missed.  I wouldn't have expected more, but in these confined waters and with this many subs and bombers around, eventually Miller's going to get unlucky and something bad is going to happen.  I'm worried about committing the Allied carriers in this vicinity given the total lethaliy of Japanese subs in my game; don't know what I can do about it or if I can avoid sending them here.  Something to mull over.

Burma:  The Allies have consolidated their hold on Prome and are advancing on the base across the river (due west in real life) from Rangoon.  I think it's vacant and it can be built up to at least level seven.  If the Allies are able to take, hold, and build up this base and prome, it may be possible to make life untennable for the Japanese at Rangoon and vicinity.  Very strange, but delightful, that this is happening while nearly every British unit is already at Darwin.  (NYGiants:  I have four Chinese units in Burma, but I like your idea of seeing if they can build "big" using Indian supply).

China:  I think the status quo will resume indefinately, though Miller is apparently and gradually shifting his line of attack toward Hangchow and possibly Kweilin and Liuchow.

[khyberbill]

Okay, I need advice and counsel from all the advisors who favored continued Allied effort to support and hold Paramushiro

I trust you have a few Marine Squadrons there that have upgraded to Corsairs. They can make a real difference. In my PBEM battling over Darwin, I am getting kill ratios of between 6:1 and 27:1 against Tonys and Tojos. My foe says they are high exp pilots (many 80+). In Burma, I moved two squads of F6F-3s from some CV's and they are doing almost as well against the same kind of opposition.

[Canoerebel]

My Corsairs don't do anything.  I just had a high-experienced squadron get chewed alive in the DEI and about five turns ago the same thing happened to a decent squadron at Paramushiro.
 
I have no more fighters at Para.  No supplies.

[ny59giants]

It looks like only the Chinese Divisions can be bought out. There are 12 of them with about 200 AV each. All the Corps seem to be restricted. 

[khyberbill]

I have had just the opposite experience. That is what makes this game interesting. I have one squad that has 47 kills to no losses. My foe is pulling his hair out. I use them primarily on sweeps or CAP at 30k.

[Canoerebel]

5/13/43 to 5/18/43
 
NoPac:  Japanese landings commenced at Paramushiro on the 15th.  The coastal artillery unit did a decent job banging up the transports, but not good enough to sway the ultimate outcome.  To this point Miller has about 1200 AV ashore - probably not enough to vanquish the Allies, even with low supply troubles.  Para could hold out awhile.  CVE Prince William ate a torpedo off Attu, but only suffered light damage.  She's making for Seattle.  When it's all said and done I'll have to think through all the plus and minus aspects of this operation.  Although there have been certain important and far-reaching benefits, I doubt they were worth the cost.  Meanwhile, the Allied carrier TFs will skirt French Frigate Shoals on the way to Christmas Island to refuel.  From there I think the big carriers and some of the CVEs will proceed to Oz; some of the CVEs I may use to support an invasion of Tarawa, as long as I can put that together before the KB could possibly arrive. 
 
SoPac:  The Allies will invade the vacant (and still green) dot hex of Tabitatu (sp?) south of Tarawa, which will tip my hand about my intention to hit Tarawa.  I have no idea if the Japanese are firmly in place at Tarawa or not; I won't invade if it's stoutly defended.  CV Essex arrived at Panama City and is on the way to Tahiti.
 
SWPac:  The KB and combat TF (including Mutsu and Nagato) pulled back after roughing up Saumlaki a bit.  A Marine Base Force with 100 torpedo support is at Brisbane and making for Darwin.  I may try to insert this unit at Saumlaki (or perhaps Babar or Kai-eilenden) to give the Allies the ability to use Avengers in this area.
 
Burma:  Prome airfield is up to level two but it'll be awhile before I can get a base force up to the front lines.  The Chinese took Mandalay.
 
China:  Miller dropped a paratroop unit on the hex behind Changsha, which created problems because it severed the easy connection between Changsha and Hengyang.  He had three units at Hengyang, which shouldn't be enough to do squat, but I forgot that my units there haven't been tested during the war and therefore have relatively low experience (I should have been training them but forgot).  The Japanese have dropped forts from four to 1 and I'm worried about the future of this city.  I had two 100% prepped units moving here from Changsha, but the paratroop assault made them do funky things - sent them off toward the north.  So the "quicky and easy reinforcements" aren't going to happen.

[Canoerebel]

5/19/43 to 5/24/43
 
NoPac:  Paramushiro continues to hold - the Japanese are bombarding each turn and have about 1500 AV ashore.  For some reason my transport subs won't load, so I'm using patrol aircraft to evacuate cadres.  I bet Para falls within the week.  I will have held it about three months.
 
SoPac:  Troops are loading for the dot hex south of Tarawa.  D-Day is about eight days away.  Tarawa is only a level two airfield, so my hunch is that the airfield isn't filled with fighters and bombers.
 
SWPac:  The Allies continue to send small TFs with supplies to the various bases (and Miller uses small combat TFs and subs to contest), give the engineers time to boost airfield and port levels (Saumlaki's airfield just went to level four), and target 4EB against Ambon, Koepang, and Lautem on a rotating basis.  The Allies have a massive presence at Darwin now - 3500 AV with a true host of engineers and other support units.  This suits me fine - once the Allies are ready to move forward the troops needed to "feed the advance" will be close by.  Once Paramushiro falls, Miller will send the bulk of the IJN this way.  Most of the Allied navies will already be here, so this promises to be the focus of a great deal of activity.
 
Burma:  The Allies took Magwe and Tyang Gyi and will take the base across the river from Rangoon (Bessien?) tomorrow.
 
China:  A nightmare here.  The Japanese took Hengyang.  This forces the Chinese to defend the two cities to the rear, meaning the Chinese line is extended and the garrisons diluted.  This threatens the entire Chinese MLR - Changsha, Changteh, Kwielin, Liuchow and Nanning are all threatened and may become untennable.  The Japanese breakthrough came as a result of bad luck (I usually had the city behind Changsha garrisoned by infantry, but Miller caught me at an open period when he dropped his paratroops), worse luck (the loss of that city to paratroops diverted my Hengyang reinforcements to the woods hex north of town instead of forward to Hengyang, which was within easy marching distance), incompetence (I had failed to train most of the units garrisoning Henyang), and good moves by Miller (the paradrop combined with the rapid move on Hengyang overwhelmed the defenses before reinforcements could arrive).  What with the deplorable condition of China due to the strategic bombing early in the game, this is a real threat to unhinge the entire theater.  China has been real sore spot since early in the game when Miller used massive artillery (17 units) and strategic bombing to blow gaping holes in the defenses).  Since then he has refused to call off the dogs.  My hope is that one of these days I can make him pay for his "crimes."  I have some ideas...

[crsutton]

Your situation is not so bad in China as you think-especially considering the date. My pbemail is only June 1942 and my opponent has already taken all of the cites that you mention and I am fighting on the river line behind them. I have lost Sian as well. However, I found that once my lines moved back into wooded rough and rough terrain, the pace of the Japanese assault ground to a halt and he is losing some attacks there and having supply problems. I think I am going to lose most if not all of China but I put the blame on the state of the game before the fixes. (You have probably seen my thread about river crossings and shock. This is one more probem that need addressing.) However, I think if we were to restart the game, China would now work a lot better and I would do better there.

Perhaps I would ask for no moved into China from other theaters before 1942 as well.

Basically, there is no way to hold the clear terrain. However, it the rivers actually provided some better defensive benefit then the Chinese could at least delay in the open terrain better.

All of my Chinese units are up to about 45-55 experience and that seems to help as well.

[Canoerebel]

Many of my Chinese units have 60 experience now.  The Chinese are able to stand behind fortifications as long as "nuclear artillery" isn't employed.

Were I to start another game, I'd use these House Rules:

1.  No strategic bombing in CBI (by either Allies or Axis) until 1944.
2.  No more than one artillery unit for each two divisions.
3.  I'd also strongly consider something tying artillery units to infantry in Manchuko - perhaps the Japanese have to withdraw (and pay political points) one infantry division per artillery unit.

With those things in place China should be much more historical and not subject to ludicrous and a-historic strategy.

P.S. I lost Sian a long time ago.

P.P.S. It's going to take me a long time, but eventually my opponent shall pay for his excesses in China.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

P.P.S. It's going to take me a long time, but eventually my opponent shall pay for his excesses in China.

You know the game ends in early-mid 1946, right? [:'(]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
1.  No strategic bombing in CBI (by either Allies or Axis) until 1944.

I couldn't abide by this as an IJ player.

Restricting strat bombing until 1944 is a giveaway to the allied player who can then steamroll Japanese production at will in 1944 and 1945, after securing air superiority with a surfeit of 4EBs. I think to be fair to both sides, this has to be either a complete restriction of any strategic bombing in or from the CBI or no restrictions at all.

Early on, this strat bombing restriction will benefit the Chinese. Later, it will benefit the Japanese. Give and take. Compromise. Quid pro quo or nothing.

[Canoerebel]

This is the House Rule that both Q-Ball and I think is fair.  No strategic bombing in CBI helps the Allies by preventing the Japanese from destroying Chinese industry.  It helps the Japanese by preventing the Allies from strategic bombing places like Magwe and Rangoon.
 
The Japanese can easily wipe out Chinese industry by strategic bombing in '42 and '43, so this rule makes sense.  The ability of the Allies to use Chinese bases for strategic bombing will be severely limited by the supply situation.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Many of my Chinese units have 60 experience now.  The Chinese are able to stand behind fortifications as long as "nuclear artillery" isn't employed.

Were I to start another game, I'd use these House Rules:

1.  No strategic bombing in CBI (by either Allies or Axis) until 1944.
2.  No more than one artillery unit for each two divisions.
3.  I'd also strongly consider something tying artillery units to infantry in Manchuko - perhaps the Japanese have to withdraw (and pay political points) one infantry division per artillery unit.

With those things in place China should be much more historical and not subject to ludicrous and a-historic strategy.

P.S. I lost Sian a long time ago.

P.P.S. It's going to take me a long time, but eventually my opponent shall pay for his excesses in China.

I will note these thoughts for when I start my campaign. As always I will simply say "I HATE CHINA!" [X(][:-][X(]

[John 3rd]

Dan, I concur with you and QBall's House Rule. The Strategic Aerial Bombardment is soooooo powerful. The Japanese do have the limited ability as you mention and the Allies have it through to whole game. Seems to me to be a fair rule...

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
For some reason my transport subs won't load, so I'm using patrol aircraft to evacuate cadres. 

You do know that the troops to be sub loaded must be in "strat" mode? In addition to this, given the size of the port at Paramushiro and the air situation, my guess is that it only allows one unit/day to load (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2334326)

Cheers - Grollub

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Grollub

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
For some reason my transport subs won't load, so I'm using patrol aircraft to evacuate cadres. 

You do know that the troops to be sub loaded must be in "strat" mode? In addition to this, given the size of the port at Paramushiro and the air situation, my guess is that it only allows one unit/day to load (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2334326)
Cheers - Grollub

Yes, I know about the "strat" mode. I had previously used subs to withdraw a few loads of men to Attu Island. But something changed - the interface no longer permitted me to load men. The men were "grayed out." I assume it's due to the level of damage the port has suffered as a result of bombing and bombardments. Not sure though.

[Canoerebel]

5/19/43 to 5/28/43
 
In some ways this game seems to be entering the realm of the surreal.  Weird things and unexpected things are happening.
 
NoPac:  The Japanese didn't bring enough in the first wave at Paramushiro (or perhaps it was that too many troops were lost during the landings), so Miller has had to bring in reinforcements.  The coastal artillery CD unit has bit into the Japanese ships pretty hard, so Miller will probably end up losing 60 to 80 ships all-told in this campaign, compared to twice that many for the Allies.  The Allies are successfully withdrawing cadres from each unit at Paramushiro.  On the 27th and 28th, the KB showed up south of Adak and lit into the shipping in that port.  Unfortunately for the Japanese, about 70 Allied aircraft were on CAP.  Over two turns the Japanese lost more than 250 aicraft (more than 200 Judys alone) while the Allies lost about 50.  This should have some significant impact on the KB's pilot quality.  The Japanese strike aircraft did sink about a dozen transports and various other small craft.
 
SoPac:  The Allied landings at Tabiteau (spelling?), the dot-hex south of Tarawa, have apparently gone unnoticed (not a big suprise since the Allies control the hex).  I've landed engineers and a Marine CD.  Next we'll scout Tarawa to see how strongly it is fortified.  If it's not too tough, the Allies will mount a quick campaign using the CVEs that are nearing Christmas Island.
 
SWPac:  The Japanese appear to be evacuating Milne Bay.  I sent a small CL/DD force to snoop around but it encountered a large CA/CL force.  I lost CL Java and a DD.  The main activity continues at the line of Allied islands off the coast of Darwin.  Construction at those airfields is making progres, but not quite fast enough.
 
Burma:  The Allies have taken everything west of Rangoon/Pegu.  Two base forces are on the way to Prome, which is already a level two airfield (on the way to nine).  The Japanese have 37 units in Rangoon.  What a remarkable retreat this has been.
 
China:  Not sure where the Japanese plan to go now that they've taken Hengyang.  I had expected Miller to move west toward the rear of Changsha, but thus far he's moved a unit or two south toward Liuchow.  A Japanese shock attack there came off at 1:4 and cost the Japanese 6K to 2K casualties.
 
Subwars:  On the same day, two Japanese subs sank two American subs.  Allied subs have been remarkably quiet over the past month.  There was one hit against a Japanese DD, but that's been about it.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Japanese can easily wipe out Chinese industry by strategic bombing in '42 and '43, so this rule makes sense.  The ability of the Allies to use Chinese bases for strategic bombing will be severely limited by the supply situation.

Yes, the rule makes sense, provided that its application is realistically extended to both parties.

The allies aren't able to introduce strategic bombing in China in 1942 or 1943 because of their strategic situation there as well as the supply situation. So 'holding off' on allied strategic bombing from China in until 1944 is a straw man argument. You're not denying the allied player anything-because he can't do it until 1944 or thereabouts. It's like a house rule agreeing to no atom bomb attacks against the Japanese HI until after June 1945 in exchange for no bombing of allied ports before June 1945.

The IJN player, on the other hand, has the ability and motive to turn Chinese resources and supplies into a smoldering pile beginning in 1941. A restriction until 1944 effectively denies this throughout the war, as local allied air superiority will be in place in the CBI by then. The Japanese player that agrees to this rule is giving up a whole lot more than the allied player is.

Now, after 1945 the CBI is a shambles, so anything goes for the allies then...

I would agree to the following modifications:

1. No CBI-based (or targeted) strategic bombing throughout the war by either side. Period. OR...
2. No CBI-based (or targeted) strategic bombing throughout the war prior to 1945 by either side. OR....
3. No restrictions on CBI-based (or targeted) strategic bombing.

[Canoerebel]

The Allies are fully capable of strategic bombing in Burma in '42 and '43, so this House Rule certainly benefits the Japanese.  There is no way the Allies will be capable of any kind of strategic bombing campaign in China in '42 or '43, and probably well into '44.  So I think the House Rule will work fine.