OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: 22sec

I think for some the issue is that they look at under what law, or a state's constitution, an executive such as a governor or mayor has the legal authority to issue an order that carries with it a penalty. We should ask as American's is our Bill of Rights, our rule of law, only applicable when the government says it is, and that it can be tossed aside for any emergency? I will leave you with this example. In April, our mayor on his own decided to ban people from open carry within the city of Jackson. Thankfully even Jackson's City Council slapped him down, and he was force to quickly withdraw the order. It is a slippery slope, and one that goes against the foundation of this republic.

That is what I mean by losing our freedoms.

[RangerJoe]

Early results are promising from coronavirus-vaccine testing in US

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2020/0 ... in-us/amp/

[RangerJoe]

More stores are requiring masks in the area. There are more Covid-19 infections now and the rate is increasing. A local athlete on a softball team tested positive so those activities are shut down for a couple of weeks. Three or four adults may be been exposed to the corona virus due to this.

I was going to go to town today but the person that I was going to meet is unwell. No fever, just weak and Lucy Bowels visited. I suggested a Covid-19 test anyway because it can affect there as well.

Maybe I should see about getting a M-17A1 or a M-25 to wear, but I don't have glasses for them. [:(] I do know someone who smoked a cigarette while wearing a M17A1.

Right now, I have a pretty female laying between my legs . . . [:D]

[Rising-Sun]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

More stores are requiring masks in the area. There are more Covid-19 infections now and the rate is increasing. A local athlete on a softball team tested positive so those activities are shut down for a couple of weeks. Three or four adults may be been exposed to the corona virus due to this.

I was going to go to town today but the person that I was going to meet is unwell. No fever, just weak and Lucy Bowels visited. I suggested a Covid-19 test anyway because it can affect there as well.

Maybe I should see about getting a M-17A1 or a M-25 to wear, but I don't have glasses for them. [:(] I do know someone who smoked a cigarette while wearing a M17A1.

Right now, I have a pretty female laying between my legs . . . [:D]

IDK i seen some people been doing strange thing, esp wearing Jason hockey mask instead and he was over six feet tall in his jump suit.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

More stores are requiring masks in the area. There are more Covid-19 infections now and the rate is increasing. A local athlete on a softball team tested positive so those activities are shut down for a couple of weeks. Three or four adults may be been exposed to the corona virus due to this.

I was going to go to town today but the person that I was going to meet is unwell. No fever, just weak and Lucy Bowels visited. I suggested a Covid-19 test anyway because it can affect there as well.

Maybe I should see about getting a M-17A1 or a M-25 to wear, but I don't have glasses for them. [:(] I do know someone who smoked a cigarette while wearing a M17A1.

Right now, I have a pretty female laying between my legs . . . [:D]

IDK i seen some people been doing strange thing, esp wearing Jason hockey mask instead and he was over six feet tall in his jump suit.

Well, that is a mask. [8|]

I was thinking about getting some kind of mask like that but have a paper one underneath it. [8D]

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: 22sec

I think for some the issue is that they look at under what law, or a state's constitution, an executive such as a governor or mayor has the legal authority to issue an order that carries with it a penalty. We should ask as American's is our Bill of Rights, our rule of law, only applicable when the government says it is, and that it can be tossed aside for any emergency? I will leave you with this example. In April, our mayor on his own decided to ban people from open carry within the city of Jackson. Thankfully even Jackson's City Council slapped him down, and he was force to quickly withdraw the order. It is a slippery slope, and one that goes against the foundation of this republic.

That is what I mean by losing our freedoms.

Everything needs to be taken into context.

So in case of a flood, it's cool for the Mayor or the governor to issue an evacuation. In the case of fire, they could call for an evacuation. Those are emergencies and citizens expect elected leaders to take charge to protect lives and property. I would argue that it should be no different for the wearing of masks and the temporary closing of certain types of businesses (emphasis on the word temporary). Now if I own a tattoo parlor and the mayor/governor shuts me down for a few months I'm probably pissed. But if the CDC and advisors that are considered experts in the field of pandemics tell me that masks and separation will knock down the spread... If in my city/state I'm a mayor or governor and I see the number of positive tests increasing hand-over-fist, and if I see the ICUs reaching their max potential in the hospitals, what are my options?

For the point brought up by 22sec, I'd say they could put a ban of open carry on the ballot and see what their constituents want. For the case of wearing masks and trying to maintain separation while a pandemic is raging in my city/state, I don't think it unreasonable for an elected official to try to mitigate the spread of the virus via temporary mandates.

Right now in California, our positive tests are skyrocketing. The governor has put restrictions on businesses. No movie theatres, outdoor dining only - only serving alcohol with meals. Wear a mask (now with penalties if you don't) and maintain separation when possible. A *lot* of schools will start doing distance learning for K-12 and most of the colleges.

The problem, as I see it, is that we don't have a unified response nation-wide. Let's say that in California we really lock down hard and through shelter-in-place and mask/social distancing plus shutting down most businesses for 45 days, we knock the virus spread down to a trickle. But in Arizona - in that state - what if they don't do anything to mitigate the virus spread and their infection rate is still high or increasing? A vector in California is now a border state. Should states be shutting down borders with other states? I submit that just as a governor or mayor can give emergency orders in their state for disasters, the president can do the same. Hell - he can start a war without the approval of congress and, per the War Powers Act, he just has to notify Congress within 48 hours and can deploy troops for 60 days without the approval of congress. I feel we should be fighting the virus as one nation - undivided.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

More stores are requiring masks in the area. There are more Covid-19 infections now and the rate is increasing. A local athlete on a softball team tested positive so those activities are shut down for a couple of weeks. Three or four adults may be been exposed to the corona virus due to this.

I was going to go to town today but the person that I was going to meet is unwell. No fever, just weak and Lucy Bowels visited. I suggested a Covid-19 test anyway because it can affect there as well.

Maybe I should see about getting a M-17A1 or a M-25 to wear, but I don't have glasses for them. [:(] I do know someone who smoked a cigarette while wearing a M17A1.

Right now, I have a pretty female laying between my legs . . . [:D]

IDK i seen some people been doing strange thing, esp wearing Jason hockey mask instead and he was over six feet tall in his jump suit.

I saw a picture of someone using gauze around the face with a sticker over the chin that says placebo...

There's a comedian named Ron White that has this whole speel on how you can't fix stupid and that stupid is 4ever...
Many stupid people will live to tell and probably keep on doing stupid things. And for others, I guess they'll earn a Darwin award.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

Everything needs to be taken into context.

So in case of a flood, it's cool for the Mayor or the governor to issue an evacuation. In the case of fire, they could call for an evacuation. Those are emergencies and citizens expect elected leaders to take charge to protect lives and property. I would argue that it should be no different for the wearing of masks and the temporary closing of certain types of businesses (emphasis on the word temporary). Now if I own a tattoo parlor and the mayor/governor shuts me down for a few months I'm probably pissed. But if the CDC and advisors that are considered experts in the field of pandemics tell me that masks and separation will knock down the spread... If in my city/state I'm a mayor or governor and I see the number of positive tests increasing hand-over-fist, and if I see the ICUs reaching their max potential in the hospitals, what are my options?

......For the case of wearing masks and trying to maintain separation while a pandemic is raging in my city/state, I don't think it unreasonable for an elected official to try to mitigate the spread of the virus via temporary mandates.

Right now in California, our positive tests are skyrocketing. The governor has put restrictions on businesses. No movie theatres, outdoor dining only - only serving alcohol with meals. Wear a mask (now with penalties if you don't) and maintain separation when possible. A *lot* of schools will start doing distance learning for K-12 and most of the colleges.

The problem, as I see it, is that we don't have a unified response nation-wide. Let's say that in California we really lock down hard and through shelter-in-place and mask/social distancing plus shutting down most businesses for 45 days, we knock the virus spread down to a trickle. But in Arizona - in that state - what if they don't do anything to mitigate the virus spread and their infection rate is still high or increasing? A vector in California is now a border state. Should states be shutting down borders with other states? I submit that just as a governor or mayor can give emergency orders in their state for disasters, the president can do the same. Hell - he can start a war without the approval of congress and, per the War Powers Act, he just has to notify Congress within 48 hours and can deploy troops for 60 days without the approval of congress. I feel we should be fighting the virus as one nation - undivided.

warspite1

durnedwolf, there really is no call for that kind of thoroughly sensible, well written, well argued post. What about our rights? [8|]

[Platoonist]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf


I saw a picture of someone using gauze around the face with a sticker over the chin that says placebo...

So, now anti-maskers are apparently using mesh masks to be compliant while surreptitiously flouting the law.

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/inves ... 0fe84e0f52

And masks made of mesh, crochet (yarn) or lace are now popular items being offered by internet retailers. Most include warnings stating the items “are NOT intended for protection or COVID use.” But protection is not what anti-mask protesters are looking for.

“Make your own Anti Mask!” said the seller of a pattern to create your own anti-mask. The description of the product states: “Stylish, breathable and don't protect you from a darn thing! Masks required? No problem! Breath free while making a statement.”

We have truly entered the apocalypse of the absurd. The Absurocalypse.

[Dante Fierro]

"The Absurocalypse" [:D]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Dante Fierro

It isn't that Dr. Fauci "didn't tell the truth", it is more accurate to say they initially did not know the truth.

I don't believe that is quite correct BBfanboy. A few weeks ago, Dr. Fauci was interviewed on MediaIte's TheStreet and when replying to a question regarding the importance of masks, and why he was telling Americans not to wear a mask (at the start of the spread of the pandemic) Fauci's answer was:

"... we were concerned, the public health community, that it was a time when personal protective equipment, including N95 masks and surgical masks ... were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure, mainly, the health care workers ... we did not want them to be without the equipment that they needed."

So that pretty much makes him a liar at the time.

Thanks - I had not heard that version of him telling people not to wear masks. Even there, he did not say unequivocally "masks do not help", as some people suggest. He just said in effect "let the Health Care workers have first dibs on masks for now". Still reliable, good advice.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

We acquiesce to safety rules all the time - wearing hard hats in construction zones, wearing seat belts in cars, obeying red lights. Freedom is never absolute, so if the restriction is reasonable for the situation, just roll with it.

I never sad anything against those rules. We give up things for societal rules. Some have different rules than others. I never said that freedom was absolute. Please don't twist what I state.

I am not sure we are on the same page about the question - i.e. I may have misunderstood where you are coming from. In the previous discussions about governments imposing lockdowns and mandating mask wearing you seemed to be saying that those powers go too far and are contrary to the constitutional freedoms you have? For we who are not from the US, it seems those powers are needed to deal with this emergency and citizens should not resist them. So far I haven't seen strong arguments for resistance, even considering constitutional rights as a factor.

I may be missing something in this debate, but it seems like everyone agrees on restrictions being necessary but some think it should not be done until the last second while others looking at the trajectory of the infections think it should happen as soon as numbers climb?

[Dante Fierro]

Thanks - I had not heard that version of him telling people not to wear masks. Even there, he did not say unequivocally "masks do not help", as some people suggest. He just said in effect "let the Health Care workers have first dibs on masks for now". Still reliable, good advice.

Well my memory is not what it used to be. But I seem to recall him announcing (at least to the American public) that masks were not effective from stopping the pandemic and even the CDC (at the time) didn't recommend the use of masks.

What he (and the other health professional leaders) should have said to the American people was that yes, we're short on masks and we must prioritize who gets the masks i.e. the doctors and nurses and other public safety officials.

I guess they were afraid on a run on masks, but it happened anyway right? But the problem here is, that the misinformation is something that anti-maskers latched onto very early, and his and the CDCs pronouncements were treated as factual. Since then, both have changed their positions. But the anti-masker 'movement' still uses some of the data during that early period to bolster their arguments.

This is a growing problem (IMO) in the US. The American public is increasingly being subjected to propaganda by its own authorities, for whatever justification they think is needed, so the 'authorities' can get the policies they want implemented. And it can lead to the horrific kind of situation we're now facing with COVID-19, with states like California and Texas having to go back into lockdown, with absolutely devastating economic impact on Americans.

Not to say this hasn't happened in our historical past. I suppose the Gulf of Tonkin propaganda, justified to get us into a war with Vietnam, would be a good example. Then there were the WMD's in Iraq.

I am not trying to be political here. So sorry to those who think I'm trying to push a political agenda. Personally I'm neither a Democrat or a Republican. More of an Independent. Just trying to get at the underlying issues of the COVID-19 crisis we are now facing. Trying to discuss it in as objective fashion as I can.

[Bo Rearguard]

ORIGINAL: Shellshock

Seventy-five years ago citizens put on uniforms instead of masks and gave up a far more freedoms to fight totalitarianism. Far more inconvenient not to mention sometimes fatal. Have we really gotten this whiny and insular?

I've sort of been feeling a bit Ripley Van Winkle myself looking around the domestic landscape lately.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Many scuba divers prepare their diving masks to avoid fogging up by spitting on them and rubbing around the saliva across the mask. It works as I have used this approach. Not sure how well spitting on your glasses would go over in public. Though I suspect it would work too. Maybe with the heat wave in certain parts of the US glasses won't fog up as the difference in temp from exhaling vs the outdoor temp won't be high, but the minute you walk into an air conditioned building all bets are off......[:)]

Try coming in from outside temperatures of -40º into a warmer environment with some moisture and see what happens! When I drive into the underground parking garage for my apartment I frequently have to roll down side windows and stick my head out to see where I am going. Using alcohol based windshield washer fluids clear the windscreen for about one swipe of the wipers and then the alcohol evaporates, making he windscreen colder still!

BTW, spittle straight from the mouth is a bit too thick to make a clear coat on lenses. Tried to clean my glasses that way once thinking I had a tissue in my pocket to wipe them off - I didn't.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: 22sec

I think for some the issue is that they look at under what law, or a state's constitution, an executive such as a governor or mayor has the legal authority to issue an order that carries with it a penalty. We should ask as American's is our Bill of Rights, our rule of law, only applicable when the government says it is, and that it can be tossed aside for any emergency? I will leave you with this example. In April, our mayor on his own decided to ban people from open carry within the city of Jackson. Thankfully even Jackson's City Council slapped him down, and he was force to quickly withdraw the order. It is a slippery slope, and one that goes against the foundation of this republic.

That is what I mean by losing our freedoms.

Everything needs to be taken into context.

So in case of a flood, it's cool for the Mayor or the governor to issue an evacuation. In the case of fire, they could call for an evacuation. Those are emergencies and citizens expect elected leaders to take charge to protect lives and property. I would argue that it should be no different for the wearing of masks and the temporary closing of certain types of businesses (emphasis on the word temporary). Now if I own a tattoo parlor and the mayor/governor shuts me down for a few months I'm probably pissed. But if the CDC and advisors that are considered experts in the field of pandemics tell me that masks and separation will knock down the spread... If in my city/state I'm a mayor or governor and I see the number of positive tests increasing hand-over-fist, and if I see the ICUs reaching their max potential in the hospitals, what are my options?

For the point brought up by 22sec, I'd say they could put a ban of open carry on the ballot and see what their constituents want. For the case of wearing masks and trying to maintain separation while a pandemic is raging in my city/state, I don't think it unreasonable for an elected official to try to mitigate the spread of the virus via temporary mandates.

Right now in California, our positive tests are skyrocketing. The governor has put restrictions on businesses. No movie theatres, outdoor dining only - only serving alcohol with meals. Wear a mask (now with penalties if you don't) and maintain separation when possible. A *lot* of schools will start doing distance learning for K-12 and most of the colleges.

The problem, as I see it, is that we don't have a unified response nation-wide. Let's say that in California we really lock down hard and through shelter-in-place and mask/social distancing plus shutting down most businesses for 45 days, we knock the virus spread down to a trickle. But in Arizona - in that state - what if they don't do anything to mitigate the virus spread and their infection rate is still high or increasing? A vector in California is now a border state. Should states be shutting down borders with other states? I submit that just as a governor or mayor can give emergency orders in their state for disasters, the president can do the same. Hell - he can start a war without the approval of congress and, per the War Powers Act, he just has to notify Congress within 48 hours and can deploy troops for 60 days without the approval of congress. I feel we should be fighting the virus as one nation - undivided.

Banning the sale of firearms because of Covid-19, how does that help?

"New Orleans Mayor Issues Coronavirus Order Allowing Ban on Sale, Transportation of Firearms"
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... -firearms/

Then:
"She signed a follow-up proclamation on March 16, 2020, further emphasizing her emergency powers to “suspend or limit the sale, dispensing, or transportation, of alcoholic beverages.”"

Church service help in cars, people fined $500?

https://www.wlbt.com/2020/04/10/people- ... h-service/

Why should there be a unified response when some places don't even have it? Should the entire country be locked down with no one leaving their dwelling for any reason for 90 days?

As far as school closings, read what the LA teachers union wants:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbauma ... e-n2572420

Should the entire nation send Covid-19 patients to nursing homes like some states did? Or should the people with Covid-19 be the people quarantined?

Who Sent COVID-19 Positive Patients Into Nursing Homes?
https://townhall.com/columnists/michael ... s-n2568837

[fcooke]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Many scuba divers prepare their diving masks to avoid fogging up by spitting on them and rubbing around the saliva across the mask. It works as I have used this approach. Not sure how well spitting on your glasses would go over in public. Though I suspect it would work too. Maybe with the heat wave in certain parts of the US glasses won't fog up as the difference in temp from exhaling vs the outdoor temp won't be high, but the minute you walk into an air conditioned building all bets are off......[:)]

Try coming in from outside temperatures of -40º into a warmer environment with some moisture and see what happens! When I drive into the underground parking garage for my apartment I frequently have to roll down side windows and stick my head out to see where I am going. Using alcohol based windshield washer fluids clear the windscreen for about one swipe of the wipers and then the alcohol evaporates, making he windscreen colder still!

BTW, spittle straight from the mouth is a bit too thick to make a clear coat on lenses. Tried to clean my glasses that way once thinking I had a tissue in my pocket to wipe them off - I didn't.

The too thick this is why you rub it around. It thins it out. I grew up in Boston and didn't wear glasses then but -40 to 'room temp' would kick my bottom today. Even without glasses. [:D]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: fcooke

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Many scuba divers prepare their diving masks to avoid fogging up by spitting on them and rubbing around the saliva across the mask. It works as I have used this approach. Not sure how well spitting on your glasses would go over in public. Though I suspect it would work too. Maybe with the heat wave in certain parts of the US glasses won't fog up as the difference in temp from exhaling vs the outdoor temp won't be high, but the minute you walk into an air conditioned building all bets are off......[:)]

Try coming in from outside temperatures of -40º into a warmer environment with some moisture and see what happens! When I drive into the underground parking garage for my apartment I frequently have to roll down side windows and stick my head out to see where I am going. Using alcohol based windshield washer fluids clear the windscreen for about one swipe of the wipers and then the alcohol evaporates, making he windscreen colder still!

BTW, spittle straight from the mouth is a bit too thick to make a clear coat on lenses. Tried to clean my glasses that way once thinking I had a tissue in my pocket to wipe them off - I didn't.

The too thick this is why you rub it around. It thins it out. I grew up in Boston and didn't wear glasses then but -40 to 'room temp' would kick my bottom today. Even without glasses. [:D]

How about when the winter windshield washer fluid freezes on the windshield? That has happened to a vehicle that I was in.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

With your rights come responsibilities. Freedom is not doing what you want at the expense of others, not in modern society. People who give up freedom for safety have neither.

Give up freedom?

What exactly are we talking about here?

A good anecdote form a doctor friend here who is incredulous about the odd mention of personal rights and freedoms regarding mask wearing. "It's like stop lights. I mean, a stoplight is inhibiting my personal freedom to move where I want when I want, so I should just go through it. My freedom is most important here. I mean sure, someone might get hurt, but I won't limit my freedoms to protect someone going the other way if I'm in a hurry."

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf


I saw a picture of someone using gauze around the face with a sticker over the chin that says placebo...

So, now anti-maskers are apparently using mesh masks to be compliant while surreptitiously flouting the law.

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/inves ... 0fe84e0f52

And masks made of mesh, crochet (yarn) or lace are now popular items being offered by internet retailers. Most include warnings stating the items “are NOT intended for protection or COVID use.” But protection is not what anti-mask protesters are looking for.

“Make your own Anti Mask!” said the seller of a pattern to create your own anti-mask. The description of the product states: “Stylish, breathable and don't protect you from a darn thing! Masks required? No problem! Breath free while making a statement.”

We have truly entered the apocalypse of the absurd. The Absurocalypse.

This is about as smart as Covid parties. Was it here that had the link to the guy who went to one, caught it and told his doctors he'd been to a Covid party shortly before being vented? He later died, aged 30.