Admirals Edition Naval Thread

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Original Question

4. What happens to damaged ships, zero speed far from home port when it's withdrawl date comes up?

Reply

The Atlantic Fleet does not care. They just want that ship back and you had better get it back.

Huh, so I'm trying to get a withdrawn ship far from an exit hex, it get's torpedoed, doesn't sink, zero speed, so I get charged PP's until it's repaired and makes it to the exit hex or sinks??? This doesn't even make sense and takes the whole withdrawal and PP process a couple of steps too far! [8|] Forget this, invest more time/effort in a better AI! [:-]

At zero speed isn't it likely you could SCUTTLE it? Which I would think should eliminate the ongoing PP cost.

This could be a good change for the game, only time and playing will tell.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Ship withdrawal:

Why can't an identical, or better class suffice for the withdrawal. Does Home Fleet demand HMS Caradoc or would HMS Suffolk or Warspite suffice??

This seems to make sense and be viable, unless I am missing some "intent" of this change by the team.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: JWE




Awww, dude …

No, that won’t work. Organization on that level requires HQs, and such, and there’s just no room for divisional level admin, outside a TF structure. Can you imagine the confusion of making and breaking up billions of DesRons; kinda like IRL in ’42, ain’t it.

I hear you though. In my wargaming group’s games, we’ve been organizing amphib TFs into TransRons and TransDivs forever, but that’s cause we want to keep Kosher. We are thinking, however, about bifurcating the cargo classes.

An AK(A) or AP(A), was a commissioned vessel with specific utility that the SS Wynette didn’t have. WiTP-1 allowed any old vessel to comprise an assault TF. If our thinking is clear, AE will force limitations on amphib TFs to those ships that were actually capable of participating.

That’s not to say the SS Wynette can’t go into an amphib TF, but if she does, she can’t unload at any reasonable rate (no boats, no strengthened kingposts, squat for AA), so anybody who wants to do that will get exactly what they deserve.

So, a very limited number of capable, commissioned ships, can play. Shouldn’t be hard to TF them into suitable TransRons or TransDivs. Know what I’m sayin ???

Ciao.

So, a player placing ships in an admin formation like a division and then placing this division into a TF (instead of individual ships...ie TF 200 is made up of CarDiv1 :Lex and Sara, Crudiv 4 :Astoria, Quincy and Vincennes and DesDiv 12: Lang, Benham, Ellet, Mayrant) is that much more complicated than placing individual ships in a TF? It is only one more step but once accomplished, simplifies the players burden.

Yes, Ron, it is immensely more complex. Exponentially more difficult.

We looked at it, we ain't going to do it.

OK... had no idea such a simple concept was such a bugger to implement.[X(] Thanks for looking into it guys.[;)]

[Brausepaul]

What about a more realistic ship upgrade procedure? Right now, if you put in a ship with two upgrades due (let's say 2/42 and 10/42) in 1/43 will first start the 2/42 upgrade (thus "damaging" the ship), and after repairing it it will "damage" the ship again with the 10/42 upgrade. Wouldn't it be more logical if these two upgrades caused less damaged when carried out at the same time?

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: pad152

Original Question

4. What happens to damaged ships, zero speed far from home port when it's withdrawl date comes up?

Reply

The Atlantic Fleet does not care. They just want that ship back and you had better get it back.

Huh, so I'm trying to get a withdrawn ship far from an exit hex, it get's torpedoed, doesn't sink, zero speed, so I get charged PP's until it's repaired and makes it to the exit hex or sinks??? This doesn't even make sense and takes the whole withdrawal and PP process a couple of steps too far! [8|] Forget this, invest more time/effort in a better AI! [:-]

At zero speed isn't it likely you could SCUTTLE it? Which I would think should eliminate the ongoing PP cost.

This could be a good change for the game, only time and playing will tell.

The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: herwin

The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for.

You're quite right - maybe this is something that can be improved in AE (given that it's only a VP adjustment)?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: herwin

The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for.

You're quite right - maybe this is something that can be improved in AE (given that it's only a VP adjustment)?

Oh, just add crew factors (like LCU squads) and be done with it.[:D] Improve the game and add a little humanity to the game...and massive VP increases for ships to boot.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: herwin

The real-life advantage of scuttling is that you save the crew. I think that saves more than the game gives credit for.

You're quite right - maybe this is something that can be improved in AE (given that it's only a VP adjustment)?

Oh, just add crew factors (like LCU squads) and be done with it.[:D] Improve the game and add a little humanity to the game...and massive VP increases for ships to boot.

How massive?

The RN R class had a peacetime crew of about 1100. The QE class was about 1300. The KGV was up to 1550. The USN South Dakota class was 1800 peacetime and 2500 wartime. The Iowas were designed for 1900 peacetime. The Yamato was 2767. Carriers were comparable.

How much is saved by scuttling them?

I checked and it isn't as much as it should. Just counting the crew as infantry (30/Allied VP loss, 60/Japanese VP loss) implies that scuttling an Allied DD saves 6-7 VPs, a CL or CA saves 26-27, a BB 40-80, and a CV saves about 60. In some cases, the crew is worth more as infantry than the ship.

[Ron Saueracker]

Regarding Ship Damage and respective Damage Control. Anything being done with the changes to ship damage to alleviate the, what in my opinion anyway, is the rather severe progressive flooding model which all nationalities are impacted? The Japanese suffer especially from the perceived inability to stem flooding, yet I suspect this was based on such rare occurances as Shinano's sinking, the result of a rare set of conditions at the very least. Japan's only failing was an early war inability to combat shipboard fires, principally avgas fueled fires on its CVs.

Reducing the effects of flood damage might assist the poor AI as it fails to have any provision to deal with damaged ships...ie, send them to the nearest port, not to their "home port", which could be hundreds or thousands of miles away. Correcting this code issue would help too.[;)]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: witpqs



You're quite right - maybe this is something that can be improved in AE (given that it's only a VP adjustment)?

Oh, just add crew factors (like LCU squads) and be done with it.[:D] Improve the game and add a little humanity to the game...and massive VP increases for ships to boot.

How massive?

The RN R class had a peacetime crew of about 1100. The QE class was about 1300. The KGV was up to 1550. The USN South Dakota class was 1800 peacetime and 2500 wartime. The Iowas were designed for 1900 peacetime. The Yamato was 2767. Carriers were comparable.

How much is saved by scuttling them?

Well, if crew factors were modelled, they would have experience, would not be in infinite supply, and would have VP value like LCU squads. Currently, I think 10% of the ship VP value is "saved" (deducted) if scuttled.

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: pad152

Daily PP cost until withdrawl, I don't like it [:@]

1.How much does daily PP for a ship cost?

Varies by ship type. I assure you, you can not afford it.

2.What happens to a ship on mission TF, it's withdrawl date comes up?

Nothing. You just start getting charged PPs

3. Am I going to start getiing charged daily PP's until the ship returns to port?
This will make any ship near a withdrawl date usless, or limit where you can send it, who wants to waste PP's!

Yup. You start getting warnings 30 days before withdrawal and a "who's due soon" screen is available.

4. What happens to damaged ships, zero speed far from home port when it's withdrawl date comes up?

The Atlantic Fleet does not care. They just want that ship back and you had better get it back.

5. A ship far from home, will I be charged PP's until it get back to it's home port?

You will be charged PPs until it is withdrawn. Home port is not an issue.

6. Will ship be allowed to be withdrawn from any port?

NO - you must move them off map.


Basically, Churchill or King or someone is banging on the desk. Torch, or Overload, or something is coming up and they want that ship!

I like this idea. There is no way that Lord Mountbatten would be able to tell the Admiralty to stick their 'request' for HMS Formidable where the sun shineth not [:D].
Is the PP penalty a flat rate, or does it vary between ship types? Whilst keeping hold of a CV is a massive problem, the Admiralty might not be quite as angry about me delaying a DD for a week or so...

[witpqs]

Ron,

Adding crews would be quite a big change, but simply adjusting the percentage of VP's saved by scuttling might be a small change and therefore (potentially) doable for AE.

As far as the damage model goes I thought the problem was that the flooding and fire damage was spread out over too long - days instead of hours - thereby giving too much chance to get the ship in port and unrealistically save it. True for both sides, but especially the Allies.

[Mike Scholl]

WHERE can the ships be "withdrawn" from?   With the new and additional "off-map ports", can the Brits still withdraw ships from Karachi..., or do they have to sail to Aden or somewhere?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Regarding Ship Damage and respective Damage Control. Anything being done with the changes to ship damage to alleviate the, what in my opinion anyway, is the rather severe progressive flooding model which all nationalities are impacted? The Japanese suffer especially from the perceived inability to stem flooding, yet I suspect this was based on such rare occurances as Shinano's sinking, the result of a rare set of conditions at the very least. Japan's only failing was an early war inability to combat shipboard fires, principally avgas fueled fires on its CVs.

Reducing the effects of flood damage might assist the poor AI as it fails to have any provision to deal with damaged ships...ie, send them to the nearest port, not to their "home port", which could be hundreds or thousands of miles away. Correcting this code issue would help too.[;)]

The Damage control routines have been restructured. Most of those tired old bugs should be gone and replaced with interesting new ones.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

WHERE can the ships be "withdrawn" from?   With the new and additional "off-map ports", can the Brits still withdraw ships from Karachi..., or do they have to sail to Aden or somewhere?

Currently off map only. Item is still open.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Dixie

I like this idea. There is no way that Lord Mountbatten would be able to tell the Admiralty to stick their 'request' for HMS Formidable where the sun shineth not [:D].
Is the PP penalty a flat rate, or does it vary between ship types? Whilst keeping hold of a CV is a massive problem, the Admiralty might not be quite as angry about me delaying a DD for a week or so...

By ship type. Delaying a DD for a week would cost about the same as delaying a CV for a day.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Regarding Ship Damage and respective Damage Control. Anything being done with the changes to ship damage to alleviate the, what in my opinion anyway, is the rather severe progressive flooding model which all nationalities are impacted? The Japanese suffer especially from the perceived inability to stem flooding, yet I suspect this was based on such rare occurances as Shinano's sinking, the result of a rare set of conditions at the very least. Japan's only failing was an early war inability to combat shipboard fires, principally avgas fueled fires on its CVs.

Reducing the effects of flood damage might assist the poor AI as it fails to have any provision to deal with damaged ships...ie, send them to the nearest port, not to their "home port", which could be hundreds or thousands of miles away. Correcting this code issue would help too.[;)]

The Damage control routines have been restructured. Most of those tired old bugs should be gone and replaced with interesting new ones.

Can't wait to give this puppy a run.[8D]

[Skyland]

What about Hospital ships reducing, for example, malaria effect in base when docked/disbanded and that cost some PPs to both sides if sunk ?[/align]

[rockmedic109]

ORIGINAL: Skyland

What about Hospital ships reducing, for example, malaria effect in base when docked/disbanded and that cost some PPs to both sides if sunk ?[/align]

Nice idea, but is there any historical basis for this? Did any hospital ships spend time on the front lines?

[Skyland]

Yes. As example : http://www.combinedfleet.com/Byoinsen.htm