The First Team: Take Two!

[ny59giants]

Karachi
We now know what is in Karachi. The answer is a CRAPLOAD of troops! Total Assault Value about 2,900. Yikes. Recommend our 'Expedition Force' that just entered the hex RUN and fallback while we fortify Malir.

So you want them to be able to run their economy in this hex and generate supply and fuel?? [8|]

Once you take Ceylon, you will to expand the blockade of Bombay to include Karachi. If not, it could become a massive "PITA."

[John 3rd]

The eastern Aleutians and Anchorage sure are active! More Japanese SS move into the theatre hunting and prowling. A STF will try to bag some shipping at Kodiak.

[John 3rd]

I was hoping for some excitement and if ONE mine is it then I will be disappointed!

[John 3rd]

Boring. VERY BORING...

All that concern and preparation for nothing.

[Q-Ball]

I would be SHOCKED if the Line Islands were not well defended, but I've been surprised before. They never built the airbase at Canton beyond size 3 though, whereas all the Line Islands are maxed out. Methinks they are standing there.

One also wonders why they put a Marine Def Bn. on Canton. In my opinion, you either garrison STRONG, or not at all. With all the troops we have in India, they had to know that a division would be PLENTY to hold it. The biggest benefit to taking Canton, is that they can no longer stage 4E to Australia from the USA; Canton is just within range of Cooktown/Cairns, but now they can't make it. That means 4Es can only get there today via Ship. That means we shouldn't have to worry about much from OZ until much later.

India is a problem, either through my bungling of the campaign or Allied strength, but the total AV at Bombay and Karachi actually equals ours in India. That's not good. They could break out of Karachi anytime they want to, and not much we can do about it at this point. We will try Bombay, but I'll be surprised if we take it.

I am invading Ceylon shortly to eliminate that. Would like to hold India most of this year, at some point we will be evacuating.

[modrow]

Once again, I pop up with a few curious questions looking for good answers...

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I would be SHOCKED if the Line Islands were not well defended, but I've been surprised before. They never built the airbase at Canton beyond size 3 though, whereas all the Line Islands are maxed out. Methinks they are standing there.

Why should they defend them well ? Basically, there are two options:

a) Nippon is not applying the bulk of its strength elsewhere. Then they will take those Islands if they want them and the unints will be lost.

b) Nippon is applying the bulk of its strength elsewhere. Then those valuable LCUs should be used concentrated to attack somewhere to give you a bad time, not to garrison islands. What good is it to spread them over a number of small islands with small ports and AF and let them sit there in this situation ?

One also wonders why they put a Marine Def Bn. on Canton. In my opinion, you either garrison STRONG, or not at all. With all the troops we have in India, they had to know that a division would be PLENTY to hold it.

Well... don't know if you are playing for points, I do not believe this is what is behind it (I think Hornblower's analysis doesn't sound bad), and I am not sure whether this really would be a good strategy, but at least in principle this may be used as a reverse point-cookie-approach. I think I recall there are a number of JFBs here who like going after garrisoned line islands because they gobble up points for destroying LCUs and take those out of the game and think I read some people calling thus garrisoned islands point-cookies.

Given the fact that you have your hands quite full in India, why not leaving a token garrison to get good information on what is invading the island, perhaps even hoping to damage a few of the transports so that reloading and moving on is not really an option, and then send an appropriate force to eliminate those units ? In other words, rather than letting e.g. one division per island wait for an invasion which may never come, why not using those troops for a sufficiently big counter-invasion, taylored to the need determined by the token garrison, aiming at elimination of the units you have available in CENTPAC to play with and a) gobbling up those points while b) weakening what you have available for defense ?

Thanks in advance for your (probably opposing) opinions and sharing your insight...

Hartwig

[Canoerebel]

Nah, on all accounts.
 
Early in a game, the Allies decide where to draw the line in the sand.  Hawaii, Midway, Johnston are of highest priority.  Then, given time, the Allies will try to add Palmyra, Christmas, and Jarivs Islands.  That time was present in this game because the Japanese focused on India rather then CenPac.  I would think that Palmrya and would be armed to the teeth, with Christmas right behind it.  I noted from the map, however, that Jarvis is still a dot hex.
 
I don't think the Allies are trying to entice the Japs to take Canton so that they can re-take it.  Assaults against atolls are messy propositions that gobble up transports and badly disrupt units.  Apparently, the Allies decided that Canton was too exposed to garrison heavily.  That surprises me, but no doubt it seemed like a rational decision to the Allied players in this game.  (I have no doubt that these guys are capable and are following a plan that they think will work well).

[modrow]

Canoerebel,

thanks for your views (btw - when I checked earlier today I was disappointed not to find an update to your new "celibacy" AAR -I'll look again next and hope I am more lucky, just love that thread). They raise three more questions for me:

a) why does the approach seem to work for the Japanese ? Invasion bonus at work ? Or is it just a myth anyway and a bad idea in any case ? If you say you can draw a line in the sand, it sounds like defending against a JFB who does not focus in the west of the map is possible - is it ? Otherwise, you will have to reinvade anyway...
b) how do you explain the presence of the marines on the island then - just a negligence not to remove them ? To support floatplanes, an AV would have done the job. Why not preserving the units ?
c) does what you say mean that you believe the best approach for the Allied side is to use their forces for securing the places you mention even now (Mid 42) in order to get still more stuff together to be able to strike ?

Thanks

Hartwig

[Q-Ball]

We are playing experienced opponents who are not dumb, and pretty good players. So I'm sure they have a plan. Not sure what that plan is exactly, but it's there. It could be they are "saving" all their ground forces for a massive invasion somewhere, like Wake or Marcus or somewhere.

[flaggelant]

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow


b) how do you explain the presence of the marines on the island then - just a negligence not to remove them ? To support floatplanes, an AV would have done the job. Why not preserving the units ?

Negligence does come to mind, since they didn't even bother to move the catalina's somewhere else (at least 1 squadron could have been saved without a loss of nav search/recon on what was comming )


There have been TF's at Palmyra since the start of the operation vs Canton if i remember right, so that's probably going to be "the line"

[Alikchi2]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

India is a problem, either through my bungling of the campaign or Allied strength, but the total AV at Bombay and Karachi actually equals ours in India. That's not good. They could break out of Karachi anytime they want to, and not much we can do about it at this point. We will try Bombay, but I'll be surprised if we take it.

I don't think this speaks poorly of you at all. You've managed to harry a superior force into separated coastal bases with no escape.

Not that you need my advice, but you have to try as hard as you can for Bombay. Denude the Karachi front if you have to, it doesn't seem like they'd even consider breaking out.

[Hornblower]

ORIGINAL: flaggelant

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow


b) how do you explain the presence of the marines on the island then - just a negligence not to remove them ? To support floatplanes, an AV would have done the job. Why not preserving the units ?

Negligence does come to mind, since they didn't even bother to move the catalina's somewhere else (at least 1 squadron could have been saved without a loss of nav search/recon on what was comming )


There have been TF's at Palmyra since the start of the operation vs Canton if i remember right, so that's probably going to be "the line"

i don't think this is Negligence. If it was Negligence he would have quit the game already. There is a plan in place- must be.. The 5th fleet will sortie from Pearl, hitting Wake with 2 divisions and swing down into the Northern Marshalls...

[John 3rd]

IF they intend to defend the Line Islands then I WILL FIND OUT!

This is Sir Robin to the EXTREME and it is driving me nuts.  Have flown in 2 Chutai of Emily to do recon.  They will provide a rough answer to the questions.

The ENTIRE KB will sit at Canton for a bit once the mines are swept away.  Given about 5-7 days a decision will be reached as to what to do next.  I didn't even need my 3rd Inf Brigade to make the assault landing so I have troops immediately available...

As to a Wake/Northern Marshalls landing all I have to say is BRING...IT...ON! 

[John 3rd]

I-6
Commander's Log
Lt. Cdr. Irisawa Juichi

The I-6 is a J-1 Class Ocean-Going Japanese I-Boat.  The ship has patrolled off Hawaii, been near southern Australia, and is now on station in the Gulf of Aden.  Prior patrols have seen the submarine do well in sinking a pair of Allied AK.  She is capably led, has an experienced crew, and carries a devastatingly accurate set of Torpedoes.

June 12th the ship arrives at Mandalore to refuel and then move into the Gulf of Aden.  Shipping has been very plentiful here of late as the Allies have been driven back to just Bombay and Karachi.  After a few days on plane guard duty at Bombay, the large submarine moves to sea and goes hunting.  It is not long before her game arrives and in a flurry of three days she expends all of her missiles.

Her Log:

June 24th---Surface Attack on AK Cormorant hitting her with 4 Shells and 2 Torps.  The ships sinks that day while carrying members of the 222nd RAF Aviation unit.

June 25th---The Sub hits AK Empire Resistance with a single Torp.  The ship blows up and sinks.

June 26th---Two Torps smash into an unknown AK sinking her the next day.

On the 27th, Commander Isisawa turns the bow SE and heads back to Mandalore having moved up into the elite of the Japanese Submarine Force.  She is an ACE with 5 confirmed AKs sunk to her credit.

Statistics:
Captain:  Leadership:  58  Inspiration:  54
Crew:  Day 57---Night 64

How about that?!!
 

[John 3rd]

Can ANYONE make a semblance of heads or tails out of this?

[Hornblower]

Like your being tempted to continue...

[John 3rd]

"LIKE?"

I am...

I've still got half the Canton Invasion Force without any casualties or disruption.

[John 3rd]

Spent some time playing with TRACKER and am working on the Fleet right now.  I currently have the following ships located at Canton:

6 CV
3 CVL
2 CS
1 BB
2 BC
7 CA
4 CL
32 DD

Of these ships I have CVs Soryu, Shokaku, Zuikaku, and 15 DD needing to upgrade starting July 1st. 

I shall immediately grab the Line Islands and then send that portion of the Fleet home for R&R as well as upgrades.

Landing Forces:
Palmyra shall get 2 Inf Brigades
Christmas Isle will get the 3rd Brigade

I have plenty of Base Force and other units in the pipeline; however, they are a ways away.  Will grab these islands on the cheap and then move reinforcement there as they become available. 

While I re-organize the Perimeter the Fleet will upgrade and work off its System Damage.  Will also use the time to get my fuel stocks built-up at Kwajalein, Truk, and Suva. 

After this quick Operation we will give the Allies July to respond.  If they do not then the Fleet will go hunting...

[Panther Bait]

Are you going to pull the invasion forces at Palmyra and Christmas after the islands are taken and hold them with token base forces and recon/patrol assets?  Or are you thinking that you'll try to hold them?  I'd be leery of putting anything you can't lose painlessly (like full infantry brigades or aviation regiments) that close to Hawaii.  There's gotta be a ton of troops there by now.  And with the KB in refit back home, they'll be awful exposed with just unescorted Betty support from Canton (especially at an AF of 3 for the moment).
 
What size airfield does Palmyra have now?
 
Of course the evil side of me is thinking "Hmmmm, I wonder what they have stationed at the Panama Canal?"  [X(]

[vettim89]

I read this AAR and I just shake my head. What are the Allies doing? I was going to make the comment that it's like you guys are playing the AI. Then I thought no, the AI would put up more of a fight than this. Well, the only thing I can say is that P-38's arrive in just three months. I am sure John is planning a big party with all his friends to celebrate that date