The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[crsutton]

Burma no longer matters. He is worried about his hands and toes when you have a firm grip on his balls.....[;)]

[Canoerebel]

That's the point I made yesterday - much more genteelly, I might add - by saying he was fighting battles in Texas and Florida while Sherman was bearing down on Atlanta.

[Canoerebel]

This has been a costly war at sea for both sides. I've lost a lot of good ships, especially cruisers, destroyers, AOs and TKs. The combat ships were expended to attrition the enemy - pretty effectively, I believe. The fuel/oilers were lost because John sank 'em and because, early in the game, I took a lot of risks with them and didn't fully understand their value (a flaw I am learning from).

But I've been mighty protective of good transports and carriers. That, in turn, has helped create the current environment.

[jwolf]

enemy bombardment TF strikes Sabang

Should be Sorong as you indicated in the map. See post # 8917.

[Canoerebel]

Oops, I was suffering a flashback to January 1943!

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's the point I made yesterday - much more genteelly, I might add - by saying he was fighting battles in Texas and Florida while Sherman was bearing down on Atlanta.

Yours was an excellent analogy, but crsutton's description cut right to the heart of the matter.

[Canoerebel]

Yes, I know, but I wither when someone writes more descriptively than I do!

[JohnDillworth]

destroyers, AOs and TKs.

Well, you should have DD's and TK's you don't know what to do with at this point. I forget how many AO's you get but you have an excellent network of large bases so those should not be an issue anymore. Never seem to have enough CA's & Cl's in the best of times but you should start getting more CA's plus the British ones are not bad. At this point I think it would be really funny if John preserves all his CV's until August 45 and you kill them in port with A-bombs. George B. McClellan would be proud of the state of the KB. All trained, supplied, polished and marching around in circles

[Canoerebel]

I have plenty of TKs and AOs now but things were tight back in early and mid '43.

You're right about cruisers. I lost a lot, so they are scarce, valuable and needed.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

destroyers, AOs and TKs.

Well, you should have DD's and TK's you don't know what to do with at this point. I forget how many AO's you get but you have an excellent network of large bases so those should not be an issue anymore. Never seem to have enough CA's & Cl's in the best of times but you should start getting more CA's plus the British ones are not bad. At this point I think it would be really funny if John preserves all his CV's until August 45 and you kill them in port with A-bombs. George B. McClellan would be proud of the state of the KB. All trained, supplied, polished and marching around in circles

I can always find a use for DDs. Give me more, please.

TKs, sure... even AOs I have more than enough, but I also don't use their at-sea replenishment function as much as other folks seem to.

[paullus99]

At this point, DDs are certainly more valuable (from a strategic perspective). Although they don't bombard well, they can chase down enemy shipping and put a torpedo or two into capital ships as well.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

At this point, DDs are certainly more valuable (from a strategic perspective). Although they don't bombard well, they can chase down enemy shipping and put a torpedo or two into capital ships as well.

Yeah but if he has traded DDs then he is now getting about 20 every 60 days and John is not. The math works out in the end.

[ny59giants]

Time to make numerous 8 ship SC TFs made up of Fletchers and go hunting.

[JohnDillworth]

Time to make numerous 8 ship SC TFs made up of Fletchers and go hunting

indeed. At this point in the war CA's & BB's have as much to fear as you do

[Capt. Harlock]

Those are battles in Texas and Florida while Sherman is driving on Atlanta.

+1

Nice comparison!

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yeah, Manila is a high-priority goal. I've spelled this out, but it's probably been lost in the clutter of my 10k posts.

I'll move on Manila, but not anytime soon. I don't have the army to do it yet. John is bringing in heavy reinforcements - enough to induce a stalemate. So I'll bide my time, building my bases and trying to secure the central Philippines bases, while waiting for the eventual carrier battle or the point in time in which the Allied army and base-structure is strong enough to allow a move on Manila.

As I've explained in the past, this is going to be a long, six-month campaign. The highest priority remains the Japanese navy, the second highest securing and building the bases (most of which I already have),a nd the third highest is to maul big enemy units. The latter can be done more efficiently once KB is out of the way and I can impose a blockade on Luzon, eliminating supply (IE, a reverse of '41 and '42 on Luzon).

I think, though, that if John suffers a lopsided carrier defeat, he'll seriously consider conceding. At that point he won't have much of a navy left. Such an outcome is not a sure thing, but it's a possibility; a possibility that I'm trying to nurture.

Yeah, in all probability you might have been able to pull off a coup de main on Manila. But now it will be a longer campaign. Of course, hindsight is always 20-20. Especially mine.[;)] All in all, if I were the Allied player, I would have to be pretty darn satisfied with your position in the PI.

[paullus99]

Let John pour troops into Luzon. You are correct in thinking that it will merely turn into a giant POW camp once you move closer to Japan.

[Canoerebel]

There is no way I could have pulled off a coup-de-main....unless I was armed with perfect foresight. I think the only way anybody would conclude that was possible is if they were reading John's AAR and he was expounding on how exposed he was. I wasn't armed with such information and had to allow for all kinds of eventualities. And even if I did have that information it probably only flattered to deceive.

John could easily bring in reinforcemetns from close by, Manila is urban terrain, and he'd have big airfields while I'd have none. Can anyone see how a big land campaign without controlling the air would have a chance of succeeding as a blitzkrieg or coup-de-main? There's no way. No way an army of 150k could move up that peninsula without air cover all the way to Manila and attack successfully before he reinforced strong enough to induce a stalemate in which I'd then have all kinds of problems.

I also had to take measures against him having KB in the region, meaning I had to allow for a possible combined KB/LBA attack and that I might lose.

I began planning this nine months ago and had troops prepped accordingly. I was prepared to move on Manila if I won a carrier battle early in the campaign. Then the road would have indeed been open and I'd have landed at Appari in strength, thus moving on Mainla from both directions. But with KB hanging back, that wasn't possible.

I am concentrating on building a "Big Tent-Type" network of bases. That will allow me to move on Manila eventually no matter where KB is located. Eventually Luzon is going to be either a prison camp or a massive Dunkirk operation for John - sooner (if KB is defeated) or later (once I've done what I need to do).

[paullus99]

CR - I believe your assessment is correct. There is no way that John would not have prepared Manila / Luzon for a robust defense, given the time he had, plus his ability to bring reinforcements in fairly quickly (as had been in evidence over the past week).

Instead, you have a very strong position, in the Central Philippines, that John will not be able to evict you from - and even if he tried, it would require substantial commitments in both air and naval power which he has now scattered all over the map.

Kudos.

[witpqs]

Sorry if you said and I missed it - have you recon of ~how many troops are on Luzon?

FYI, I am thinking in terms of potentially trapped there, not defenders for Manila. I regard Manila as certainly a nice base, but moving on with available speed might just make it a bypassed location.