Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'm in Nov 43 and it isn't the P-47 or Hellcat, but those damn Corsairs. [:(][:@] It doesn't make any difference if I throw George, Frank, and/or Tojo IIc at them, they just keep coming. I don't have any fighters until 45 that can match their speed (over 400 for any model).

don't know Micheal... in my experience against Rader i wasn't impressed by the 1943 Corsair model. Too few (30/month if i remember well) and too short-legged to really pose a serious long term threat to a japanese well positioned defence. Sure they are superior to anything the japs have, butyou can win a couple of sweeps with them...not a lot more. And you need to be close (i'd say not much further than 10 hexes) to really become a menace....and even if you trade 5 enemies for every Corsair you lose...a sustained air campaign can easily suck your reserves pretty quickly. My plans for 1943 are to produce 200 Georges, 200 Franks, 200 Tojos and 150 Zeros each month...it's all about numbers as the soviets have shown to the world[:D]

[GreyJoy]

Here u can see how much has improved in the last 2 months the state of our economy...

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Wow..evidently 10th Air Force didn't get the memo about the nuclear sweep not working quite the way it used to.

The P-400 should definitely be used for point defence so the pilots dont have to walk so far afterward.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yep, have some fun while you can. Until the hellcat comes along, the tojo is king.

When the Hellcat will come along i really hope to be able to fill my IJN air units with Georges, which are just as good as Hellcats! I've been there mate, the Hellcat is a good plane but it's not superior to the Tojo. probably just as good as it. No, the real problems will arrive with P-38s. I think QBall is massing them in SWPAC. But, once again, the counter is simple for Japan: numbers and attrition! I won't do the same mistake as Rader did against me. I won't send thousands of planes into the jaws of his CAP. Let him come to me. Even the P-47s don't arrive in infinite numbers...yes, they can get a kill ratio of 10-1... but i can outproduce him, and i will

Funny how experiences differ depending on the game and opponent. I found the hellcat to be a tojo killer. It was my go to plane and I used a lot of them from land bases. And, I really did not find the george to be much of an issue vs the hellcat. Fairly even I guess. Only when the Frank arrived did I find the hellcat to be a bit outclassed. But as you know the army aircraft replacement rates almost forces the Allied player to rely on the hellcat. My scen 2 game is just entering 11/44 and I am getting the mustang D. For the first time, I am not nursing my army units pools. I really leaned on the hellcat in 44 and then the corsair which is a very good airplane and much better than the Frank.

The 800 or so thunderbolts you get in the middle of 44 are like a shot of adrenaline, but they get used up fast and then you have to rely on the navy fighters.

[princep01]

It is infinitely interesting to me to read AARs wherein the discussion turns to Japanese outproducing the Allies and producing superior aircraft.  The whole idea is somewhat ludicrios given real life results.  The Japanese did design very good AC during the war.  The early war Zeros were, for a time, the world's premier fighter.  The qualify of the pilots manning those early war designs was unquestionably superior to US pilots of the day.  But, within 6 months, the Allies had developed tactics to counter the Zero and within a year had superioity in both pilots, AC types and overwheming numbers.  They never looked back in gaining air supremacy.
 
Yet, in Scenarios 2 games, the early war superiority generally never goes away if the Japanese handle their AC production well.  The same is true of numbers.  Only in pilot quality is there still a chance the Allies will prevail. 
 
While I recognize the Japanese could have done things differently in pilot training/AC design and made the air war less one sided, there is no way at all they could have outnumbered and out classed the Allies the way they can in Scenario 2.  Playing Scenario 2 is playing a total pipedream regardless of the Mod used.  These are just Mods designed to allow the IJ a "chance" to actually win the war.  Okay, that's cool, but it is no simulation of WW2 in the Pacific with "us" as commanders.  Hence, I choose to not play these scenarios.  No criticism intended toward those that do, but I pass.  I'd rather assume the role of Japan with more of less the tools it had and see if I can improve of the eventual outcome.   

[Cap Mandrake]

The 800 or so thunderbolts you get in the middle of 44 are like a shot of adrenaline, but they get used up fast and then you have to rely on the navy fighters.

[X(]

CR;

You blew through 800 P-47's and didn't even get a cable from Washington?

[BBfanboy]

Re: the shock attack at Balikpapan when marching from Samarinda - I thought industry damage was dependant only on the presence of enemy engineers to do the demolition?? And shock attack does not increase the chance of demolition but a prolonged seige/surrounding the enemy does?? If anyone knows the real answer please jump in!

[Cribtop]

First, in my anecdotal experience, shock attacks increase the likelihood of industry damage.

Second, I'd still prefer a river SA with multiple fresh IJA divisions to a direct landing on Balikpapan. I vote land at Samarinda, bomb him to hades, then cross the river. Have a big supply convoy ready to repair any damaged facilities.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

First, in my anecdotal experience, shock attacks increase the likelihood of industry damage.

Second, I'd still prefer a river SA with multiple fresh IJA divisions to a direct landing on Balikpapan. I vote land at Samarinda, bomb him to hades, then cross the river. Have a big supply convoy ready to repair any damaged facilities.

+1

I've always landed at Samarinda and gone over the river to take Balikpapan. I've always gotten the base absolutely intact. Shocking in other places has destroyed industry, especially in China, but for some reason, not here.

[ny59giants]

Where are all your Glen equipped subs at?? I like to put them in Patrol Zones that are 8 to 12 hexes in a row with two more fleet subs in parallel paths on either side of the Glen subs. You are in the 'danger zone' in mid '42 when the Allies have all their pre-Essex Class CVs and the Brit have all their CVs until they start being withdrawn in mid-July and beyond. An Allied "Death Star" of over 600 carrier aircraft can be a nasty surprise. [:-] Just as an Allied player needs to keep track of KB, you need to find his CVs. An experienced Allied player will look to inflict pain at this time and place.

Yes, I know Olorin will be reading this. [;)]

[GreyJoy]

Ok Guys, i'll land 2 divisions at Samarinda, 100%prepped with an Army HQ 100% prepped and will rivercross... bombers from Kendari will try to distrupt the enemy units... finger crossed.
In the meanwhile we conquered Benjarmais...

Micheal, i have based my gleen-equipped subs in the following manner:

3 of them (along with 2 AMCs with Jakes) between Marcus and Attu Island
2 of them are supporting the Mavis based at Wake between Wake and Johnston Island
2 Of them are south of Tarawa
1 near Sydney
1 Near Pago Pago
1 Near Colombo
1 Near Perth
3 AMCs in the Indian Ocean


I know i know...allied DeathStar is a problem... and i'm getting ready to face it. I know Brad will attack somewhere anytime between now and the fall 42... i'm doing my best to boost my defences and will use the KB as a firestopper force...


I have a problem right now... look at what happened in china:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 10, 42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chihkiang (78,50)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 4879 troops, 66 guns, 10 vehicles, Assault Value = 501

Defending force 43100 troops, 164 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1437

Japanese adjusted assault: 0

Allied adjusted defense: 4594

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
3826 casualties reported
Squads: 128 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 18 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 31 (13 destroyed, 18 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
2nd Ind Engineer Regiment
60th Division
39th/A Division
11th Army
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion

Defending units:
9th Prov Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
53rd Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
79th Chinese/B Corps
79th Chinese/C Corps


I had 1 Army HQ, 1 full Division, 2 Arty units and 1 Eng unit already behind the river, with a bridghead estabilished several months ago. I sent a regiment of the 39th division to cross the river (the hex is held by the allies, but i already had 400 AVs in a position behind the rivercrossing... i thought sending 130 AVs should not have triggered a shock attack...while it did! And the regiment is GONE!...[:@]... i was in a "move" mode... so the question is: how can i move units to Chikkiang? At Singapore everything worked sending 1 division at time once the bridgehead was estabilished... why not here????

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

First, in my anecdotal experience, shock attacks increase the likelihood of industry damage.

Second, I'd still prefer a river SA with multiple fresh IJA divisions to a direct landing on Balikpapan. I vote land at Samarinda, bomb him to hades, then cross the river. Have a big supply convoy ready to repair any damaged facilities.

+1

I've always landed at Samarinda and gone over the river to take Balikpapan. I've always gotten the base absolutely intact. Shocking in other places has destroyed industry, especially in China, but for some reason, not here.

finger crossed so...it would be a disaster to have Balikapan completely destroyed....[8|]

[GreyJoy]

16 june 1942

Not the best turns so far...

We took a couple of stupid bloody noses in China, trying to attack an enemy stack in the woods, understimating the enemy strenght and getting a solid 1-4 ratio...ouch
We're moving too slow in the DEI... i know... but we lack of everything there... supplies are so low that in some bases there isn't even the gazoline for the aircrafts... we're doing our best to ship supplies from Japan, but Japan has only 300k supplies and Burma is short of nearly 120k!!! [X(]... it will be a pain... believe me!

The sub war is another PITA. In the last 3 days we've lost 3 xAKs and one PB due to his Mk14 torpedoes! I'm doing my best but the naval ASW is so reduced that it doesn't make any real difference to have an escort or not. I'm also doing lots of efforts in air ASW, but we lack base forces everywhere and too many rear bases don't have any aviation support left. I had to strip all those base forces in order to send them to the front lines for the offensive operations...and with the AV halved in this mod, Japan has really some serious problems to find base forces for everything. I'm even using AV ships in dot bases to provide some air search in the interior routes...but it doesn't work.

Will try to devote 3 more bomber sentais to ASW duties... but i doubt they will make any real difference.

So the question now is: What Brad is gonna do next?

It's been a while since we have since his last combat ships, and my Glens and AMCs aren't seeing anything. Some activity has been spotted near Colombo, Syndey and Pago Pago. Nothing else.... too quiet if you ask me!

My best guess? Well, i think the possibilities are, more or less, 3:

1. An attack against Tabiutea (Gilberts). This is very likely imho. He has been patrolling it and seen it empty. It's the obious first step for a campaign towards Tarawa, Makin and so on... and he knows that once the allied have a strongfoot there, the Japs are pretty much toasted .
Can i do anything to contest a landing there? Don't think so... I have not invested much in this area and only garrisoned the most obivuous targets... but nothing more. I think his main effort could be put here. I would do it if i was in his shoes.

2. Mylne Bay and Port Moresby. Pretty obvious but he's finally building Portland Roads now (AF level 3 now) and his 4Es are reconning every base i have in NG. PM is vital for every attempt of allied advance in NG and towards Rabaul, so i think he will do something here, sooner or later.

3.Adamans? Well, that would be risky. I have enough forces in the area... but it would also be very tempting for him...

What else? Mariannas? Northern Oz? mmm... i doubt...not now at least

In any case, the KB has left the Zuikaku in Japan for her upgrades (will cycle all my CVs now...a pain, i know, but i need those AA and radar upgrades asap) and will now be moved back to Saipan, in order to be ready to move if needed (to the Marshalls or to the Solomons/NG or to shift to the DEI).

I'm also sending forces to Eniwetok, Kusiae Is., Manus, Wewak etc... but, once again, we lack base forces and engineers to develop all those bases...

If you haven't tried DBB yet... well, give it a try! It's really a challenge for Japan, even in a Scen 2 environement!

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: princep01

It is infinitely interesting to me to read AARs wherein the discussion turns to Japanese outproducing the Allies and producing superior aircraft.  The whole idea is somewhat ludicrios given real life results.  The Japanese did design very good AC during the war.  The early war Zeros were, for a time, the world's premier fighter.  The qualify of the pilots manning those early war designs was unquestionably superior to US pilots of the day.  But, within 6 months, the Allies had developed tactics to counter the Zero and within a year had superioity in both pilots, AC types and overwheming numbers.  They never looked back in gaining air supremacy.

Yet, in Scenarios 2 games, the early war superiority generally never goes away if the Japanese handle their AC production well.  The same is true of numbers.  Only in pilot quality is there still a chance the Allies will prevail. 

While I recognize the Japanese could have done things differently in pilot training/AC design and made the air war less one sided, there is no way at all they could have outnumbered and out classed the Allies the way they can in Scenario 2.  Playing Scenario 2 is playing a total pipedream regardless of the Mod used.  These are just Mods designed to allow the IJ a "chance" to actually win the war.  Okay, that's cool, but it is no simulation of WW2 in the Pacific with "us" as commanders.  Hence, I choose to not play these scenarios.  No criticism intended toward those that do, but I pass.  I'd rather assume the role of Japan with more of less the tools it had and see if I can improve of the eventual outcome.   

Master, as far as i can tell, there's no way Japan can win the war, not even in scen2. DBB is so different from stock and most of the implementations and new features have nerfed (finally!) the a-historical strenghts of Japan in stock game.
No more UBER "E" class. Allied subs are now - finally - a real threat! Supply, as in RL, isn't produced by refineries, so Japan produces only 19,000 supplies daily...not nearly enough to do all the things we were used to in stock.
Japanese Engineers and aviation support squads have been halved. It means you won't have the ability to build everything...you'll have to chose, thus leaving big empty spots for the enemy's counterattacks...

[ny59giants]

Nick,

I'm a couple of weeks behind as Allies and I have plenty of Aviation Support. The American have their large Base Groups with 72 Aviation Support once they fill out. They have numerous MAGs (Marine Air Groups) that are Air HQs with 72 Aviation Support. In a few months I'll be swimming in SB (Naval Construction Units). So, your life is going to become a lot worse as the Americans will be able to build up a base in no time even if they have 0(0) AF or ports.

FYI - the Americans get their third Marine division in a few weeks, so beware!!

OT - you seem to have gotten a firm grasp of the economy. Good Job!! [&o]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The sub war is another PITA. In the last 3 days we've lost 3 xAKs and one PB due to his Mk14 torpedoes! I'm doing my best but the naval ASW is so reduced that it doesn't make any real difference to have an escort or not. I'm also doing lots of efforts in air ASW, but we lack base forces everywhere and too many rear bases don't have any aviation support left.

I think you just have to continue to do what you have been trying. I'm playing DaBabesLite "B" and my ASW is horrible. The biggest difference I've noticed is how many DD's that upgraded to an ASW rating of 4 in 2/42 no longer do. They don't achieve that level till upgrades in 43. Oucho.

Japan's ASW was always bad, but it's been a big adjustment to lower my expectations in DaBabes. Do what you have always done, the tactics still apply, but the results are beyond your control.

[GreyJoy]

Thanks guys... sorry but we're on max alert and we cannot reply to your posts right now...

Jun 16, 17 42

The allies are on the move on at least 3 fronts guys!
Command stations!!!

Ok, on the 16th an enemy cruiser TF (probably a bombardment one) showed itself south of Milne Bay... 18 betties took off from Buka and, without any opposition (a part from the AA) put three torps into his cruisers... CL Durban is sunk and Pensacola ate a fish[:D]...

Heavy recon over Tabiutea, Milne, PM, and Lae... i thought it was the prelude for a general offensive... heavy volume of radio transmission detected at Sydeny...for several turns in a row...

Well, i thought PM was the target...moved all my Netties into this theatre and gave orders to the KB in the Mariannas... Surface forces moved from Rabaul.... the usual stuff you do, right?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Tagula Island at 101,143

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 12



Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CL Perth
CL Durban, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CA Pensacola, Torpedo hits 1
CL Achilles



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Lanchow (81,34)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 27785 troops, 328 guns, 348 vehicles, Assault Value = 1194

Defending force 26604 troops, 155 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 406

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 531

Allied adjusted defense: 401

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
852 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 80 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 15 (1 destroyed, 14 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
2446 casualties reported
Squads: 58 destroyed, 64 disabled
Non Combat: 65 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 14 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 36 (1 destroyed, 35 disabled)


Assaulting units:
10th Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
110th Division
5th Armored Car Co
32nd Division
13th Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
61st Infantry Brigade
11th Tank Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Army
Mongol Garrison Army
1st Mortar Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
3rd Construction Regiment
3rd Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
34th Chinese Corps
19th Chinese Corps
36th Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese/B Corps
8th Chinese Base Force
6th Group Army
7th Group Army
15th Chinese Base Force
22nd Group Army
8th War Area
6th Chinese Base Force
17th Chinese/A Corps






..... but, on the 17th.... Mavis stationed at Addak spotted an enemy CVs south of Kodiak....[:-]... an another unknown TF south of it....
What does it mean? Enemy's target are the Aleutinas? Were the enemy cruisers in SWPAC just a bait?...

All those movements in southern Oz and in near Noumea... decoys? Baits? a giant masquarade???

We ordered the KB (and the Mini-KB) to move back towards the Kuriles... but if the NOPAC is the real target... i will never arrive in time.... some subs are also dispatched...but my CVs are at least 5 days away (at best)....[:@]

Nice move by QBall here....

[GreyJoy]

.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Nick,

I'm a couple of weeks behind as Allies and I have plenty of Aviation Support. The American have their large Base Groups with 72 Aviation Support once they fill out. They have numerous MAGs (Marine Air Groups) that are Air HQs with 72 Aviation Support. In a few months I'll be swimming in SB (Naval Construction Units). So, your life is going to become a lot worse as the Americans will be able to build up a base in no time even if they have 0(0) AF or ports.

FYI - the Americans get their third Marine division in a few weeks, so beware!!

OT - you seem to have gotten a firm grasp of the economy. Good Job!! [&o]

I know micheal...i've shot up a DBB game as allies and seen that only jap engineering capabilities are nerfed... I guess this game will be way different than my initial expectations [8|]

That's why i couldn't push any further with my perimeter...i was already too everstretched and too overextended, with not enough support troops anywhere...

And now it's time to stop and play a good defence...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The sub war is another PITA. In the last 3 days we've lost 3 xAKs and one PB due to his Mk14 torpedoes! I'm doing my best but the naval ASW is so reduced that it doesn't make any real difference to have an escort or not. I'm also doing lots of efforts in air ASW, but we lack base forces everywhere and too many rear bases don't have any aviation support left.

I think you just have to continue to do what you have been trying. I'm playing DaBabesLite "B" and my ASW is horrible. The biggest difference I've noticed is how many DD's that upgraded to an ASW rating of 4 in 2/42 no longer do. They don't achieve that level till upgrades in 43. Oucho.

Japan's ASW was always bad, but it's been a big adjustment to lower my expectations in DaBabes. Do what you have always done, the tactics still apply, but the results are beyond your control.

Think you're right mate. I just need to be patient, upgrade my ships regularly and keep on improving my air asw and search assets.
Gotta also ask Brad if it's ok for him to move to the new beta....[&o]