The First Team: Take Two!

Post descriptions of your brilliant successes and unfortunate demises.

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John 3rd
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by John 3rd »

That is why I moved SW of Palmyra.  I am able to strike at Range 5 if they stay to attack.  I also place the Transports and STF between me and the US CVs.  If they stay to fight it could be pretty wild to watch.  We'll know in a couple of hours. 

Just re-watched the attack on Yamato again and there were only three CVs present in the assault wave.  If they stay it will be 9 vs. 3!  Bring it ON!!!  If fuel wasn't the issue I would have move due North to attack.  Ahhh, well...

I've experienced the same with Yamato.  NONE of those 1000lb Bombs penetrated ANYTHING.  The 6 Torps evidently sank her....

John opinion on THAT:  CRAP!!!   
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I've experienced the same with Yamato.  NONE of those 1000lb Bombs penetrated ANYTHING.  The 6 Torps evidently sank her....

John opinion on THAT:  CRAP!!!   

On 41 x 1,000 lb bombs not penetrating anything - I agree!
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John 3rd
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by John 3rd »

They wrecked the deck pretty well which is appropriate but they should not have caused any flooding issues...

SIX Torps aren't gonna do it.

Didn't the survivor accounts of Yamato and Musashi pretty much affirm this?  The bombs wrecked the AA and small turrets but didn't hurt the citadel.  If I am wrong, I'd like to know.  Haven't read those books in quite a while.  Could be selective memory on my part...
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Hornblower
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by Hornblower »

This could be a very key next few days. If his F4F losses are as bad as you think, i'd pull north if i was him.  He might have been hoping for a quick strike anyway, not a prolonged battle
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John 3rd
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by John 3rd »

That is my feeling too...

It would be smart to take the money and run.

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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

They wrecked the deck pretty well which is appropriate but they should not have caused any flooding issues...

SIX Torps aren't gonna do it.

Didn't the survivor accounts of Yamato and Musashi pretty much affirm this?  The bombs wrecked the AA and small turrets but didn't hurt the citadel.  If I am wrong, I'd like to know.  Haven't read those books in quite a while.  Could be selective memory on my part...

It's my general understanding that the torps did the deeds (sinkings). However, I never got into detailed accounts of those attacks. Yeah the bombs wrecked the upper works, but I don't know: 1) how many (0 or more) penetrated, 2) were critical areas such as the bridges wrecked, 3) how many (0 or more) near hits contributed to flooding, etc. etc.
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John 3rd
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by John 3rd »

Sounds about right to my memory.  I opened a War Room Thread regarding Yamato.

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Q-Ball
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by Q-Ball »

The Allies will probably take off; they have seen our CV's, and will likely not choose to tango with KB. If they are smart anyway. They will take the Yamato sinking and run, which is a good return on this invasion.

The Allies win round 1 anyway, with Yamato sunk. I am probably more attached to her than I should be, because I just think those ships are COOL (waste of resources granted), but undeniably COOL. Yamato is useful, shame to lose her.

In my other PBEM game, Yamato and Musahsi have accounted for 2 BBs and other ships sunk, so I love those ships.
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by Canoerebel »

I'm going to start calling John, "Bagdad Bob."
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by ny59giants »

If fuel wasn't the issue I would have move due North to attack.

Where are your AOs??

Bueller?!? Bueller?!?
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by John 3rd »

Ohhhhhh...I SEE how this is.  Two peanuts from the gallery jump in!  [8|][8|] 

Dan--Bagdad Bob?

Michael--My AOs are busy hauling FUEL!  Radical idea when it comes to having AOs actually do their job.

There is 44,000 Fuel unloading at Canton and the AOs are coming up from Truk carrying nearly 60,000 fuel.  They are just...ahhhh...little out of position at the moment. 

Everything was fine with my fuel state until the DAMNED AI decided to fuel ALL DDs from the CVs! 
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by Canoerebel »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Dan--Bagdad Bob?

Yeah. Go back and read your post for the day Yamato was sunk. You begin: "On a day that sees landings at both Trincomalee and Palmyra, the Japanese are somewhat surprised to find 60% of the US Carrier fleet ENE of Palmyra.

Then, in the combat screen box just below, you begin: "Hot damn! We have found the US Fleet!"

You are Bagdad Bob.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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John 3rd
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by John 3rd »

OTAY!

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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by Cap Mandrake »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm going to start calling John, "Bagdad Bob."

[:D][:D] That is seriously funny.


"We have them surrounded in their tanks"


Without Yamato as a bomb magnet, it might have been really ugly for the Jap landing forces. Good to see the Yanks are fighting back. I'm not sure I agree with their idea of splitting their carriers.
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by Q-Ball »

July 9, 1942
India Front

Trincomalee

Japanese forces have stormed ashore at Trincomalee. 4th Div, 14th Bde, and a Tank Unit; should be enough to clear the island. We lost more ships than I would have liked to mines and CD guns, despite our prior bombardments taking out the 9.2 in, there were still enough 6-in to make life miserable. Figure to lose about 5 escorts and around 6-8 transports by the time it's done. First attack tommorow.

Karachi

Another large raid on Karachi; for two days, I have made a real attempt to shut down Karachi, from Ahmadebad. Today, I lost 3 Zeros and 17 Oscars, in return for 18 P-40s and 9 Mohawks in the air, plus another 40 various planes on the ground. I have rotated in some fresh units, another couple days of this, and we should have the place shut down.

Burma

The epic battle of 35,29 is about wrapped up; only one unit remains, with 4 others having surrendered already. Once we are done, this will free up some units for service elsewhere.

Palmyra

Suffice to say, we had a land battle and a naval battle. One went well for the Empire, the other didn't. No surprise spoiling, I'll let John recount the details.........

But it was major battle

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The Battle of Palmyra--Day TWO!

Post by John 3rd »

Combat Report
July 9, 1942

The early morning hears the start of many Japanese plane engines prior to sunrise. Vice-Admiral Nagumo doesn't expect to find the Americans today due to his overwhelming number of carriers spread around him. His CS/BB/CA/CL launch nearly 40 Floatplanes to search for the American Fleet.

While they fan out to look, Nagumo wastes no time bringing his Strike Planes on deck and orders for a second strike to be readied in the hangar decks. Though a risk, Nagumo is fully confident in his ships, their doctrine, and capabilities.

This day's action will fully justify his Supreme Confidence.

Japanese Kido Butai:
0655
An American Dauntless is spotted by Japanese CAP over the Fleet

0700
Joyfully realizing that the Americans have STAYED in the area, Nagumo orders the Strike Force into the air. He knows it is only a matter of time for his Scouts to report in.

0705
The Japanese begin launching what will total 73 Zeros, 69 Vals, and 162 Kates.

0708
Chitose's Scout 7 radios "Large enemy TF range 135 miles, bearing 190*, Speed 24 Knots. Fleet appears to have 2 CV, 10 CA/CL, and 10 DD. They are launching planes."

0740
The launch is complete and the KB steers a direct course for the American Fleet. CAP begins to be beefed up.

0845
A single squadron of American Avengers is spotted closing on the Japanese Fleet. There is a total of 106 Zeros flying CAP. Senior Fighter Pilot Itaya of Akagi orders the Zeros from CarDiv2 to attack this formation of 15 planes.

0847-0855
The American Squadron is destroyed as numerous Zeros splash plane after plane. At least 10 are directly shot down before the pilots flee for their lives.

0852
A Squadron of Dauntlesses with strong Fighter Escort is seen advancing from a more northerly axis. As the planes appear to be attack CarDiv1, Itaya personally leads the attack upon this group.

0900
The Second Attack Wave begins to be spotted for immediate launch.

0856-0910
Nearly all the remaining planes not shooting down the Avengers swarm this formation of 18 Wildcats and 17 SBD. The American Fighters are no match for the swarms of Japanese Zeros and they begin to fall rapidly. Fully 16 Wildcats and 9 Dauntless fall to the Zeros.

This being said, 8 Dauntlesses survive to push over into their dives. Half choose to attack Nagumo's flagship and the other 4 go after smaller Shoho. Both Carriers are veterans and heel into tight turns to starboard. The bombs dropped against Akagi do not even come close; however, Shoho takes 3 near misses while managing to shot down a single Dauntless.

Shoho radios that she has not taken any real damage.

0859-0915
The Japanese CAP is nearly saturated at this point in time. Another lone squadron of SBD are spotted approaching from the NW and only Shokaku/Zuikaku's Zeros manage to interpose themselves in time. Without any Wildcats to defend them 13 Dauntlesses of Bombing-6 are shot down and the remaining 3 run for home.

0915
Admiral Nagumo orders the 2nd Wave launched against the American Forces. Originally this Attack Force was to consist of 40 Zero, 45 Val, and 45 Kate; however, the aerial attack upon the Fleet has caused nearly all the Zeros to be launched for CAP protection. Only 6 remain to provide escort. The Strike Force--as is--is ordered into the air.

RESULTS for American Morning Attacks: 6 Zero lost in exchange for 16 F4F, 23 SBD, and 10 Avengers. No damage sustained by Japanese.

0915-0932
The 2nd Wave is launched and recovery of CAP begins.

0940-1015
The 1st Strike Wave hits the American Fleet. Commander Fuchida relays the joyous results to the Fleet.

1110-1147
2nd Wave Leader Tomonaga conducts the attack and radios further good news.

1208-1230
1st Wave is recovered and ordered to be re-armed for an afternoon strike.

1310-1320
2nd Wave recovered.

1430-1510
Afternoon Strike Wave launched consisting of 65 Zero, 95 Val, and 134 Kate.

1640-1730
Fuchida carefully coordinates the attack to do as much damage as possible to the surviving American ships.

1815-1850
Afternoon Strike lands and sake is ordered for all the flight crews!

1900
As the results are being tabulated throughout the Fleet, Nagumo orders the carriers to a slow cruising speed reflecting the serious fuel concerns he now has to deal with. Vice Admiral Yamaguchi signals that his carriers will remain to finish the job even if they have to be "towed back to Canton!"

The American Fleet

0940-1015
Commander Fuchida guides his Aerial Armada unerringly to the American Fleet. Through his binoculars he spies the American Fleet and begins to order the attacks. He is fully confident that moment shall be remembered in Japanese history as a glorious day for the Empire.

Perhaps a bit of overconfidence does hit the Japanese. A full Chutai of Zeros are jumped by the 23 F4F flying CAP over the American formation. With great rapidity 7 Zeros are shot down without hardly firing a shot. The enraged Japanese Fighter pilots immediately make the Americans pay for their attack by dropping 21 Grummans from the sky. Two manage to get through the Escorts and shot down a lone Val.

Akagi's twin Kate Daitai are led by the legendary Murata. They break into fast, shallow dives and aim for the port side American carrier. It is the USS Hornet. Though AA is fearsome, Murata's pilots hold their formations and drive in with a classic hammer and anvil attack. Glancing up, Murata spots Akagi's Vals plummeting down at the same time. Hornet hasn't a chance. She is rapidly struck by 2 bombs and then 5 torpedoes rip into her port side with another 3 crushing her starboard. The ship--still under assault by other Daitai--rapidly sinks.

Not to be outdone the elite veterans of the Dutch East Indies and Indian Ocean, CarDiv2's pilots crush the USS Enterprise in similar fashion. A more balanced assault culminating with 5 bombs and 6 Torpedoes sends her to her watery grave as well.

Seeing the results, Fuchida tries to divert as many planes as possible to attack the supporting ships of the TF. Several hits are scored but Fuchida is disappointed as bomb-after-bomb and missile-after-missile crashes into the sinking carriers.

1110-1147
Strike Leader Tomonaga brings his 90 Strike Planes into the area and they continue the work started by the 1st Wave. Several American cruisers are seriously hit before the wave heads for home.

1640-1730
Fuchida orders only a single Daitai of Kates and Vals to attack at any one point during this assault. He makes sure that the damage is spread around as much as possible. It is believed that between 8-10 American cruisers are damaged and/or sunk during this attack.

The most visual moment of the day occurs when a group of Shokaku's Kates put a Torpedo into the side of the USS Vincennes. The ship--literally--explodes from a main gun magazine hit early in this attack. It is later found out that only 11 men survive the volcanic explosion.

Japanese Kido Butai:
2000
The results are carefully tallied from the long day of operations. The conclusive numbers end up being the following:

CVs Enterprise and Hornet SUNK
CAs Vincennes and San Fransisco SUNK
CLs Phoneix and Nashville SUNK

CAs New Orleans, Astoria, and Minneapolis heavily damaged
CL Honolulu is heavily damaged
2 DDs were hit by a single Torpedo as well and are presumed to in sinking condition.

Japanese Aerial Losses: 15 Zero, 2 Val, and 20 Kates

NO DAMAGE TO JAPANESE CVs!!!


Banzai BABY!

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RE: The Battle of Palmyra--Day TWO!

Post by Canoerebel »

Congrats, John and Q-Ball.  This is really the first hard lick (in my opinion) that the Allies have taken in the game (this is not a criticism of you guys, because you've tried for Heaven's sake, but they've just pulled back so far that you haven't been able to land any solid punches) [well...I guess New Zealand, India, and Ceylon are fairly solid).
 
I think we all thought the American CVs would pull back after sinking Yamato.  What are your opponents thinking?
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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John 3rd
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RE: The Battle of Palmyra--Day TWO!

Post by John 3rd »

I don't know but it is GREAT! 

I will order the KB's non-fuel starved CVs to stick around and finish off as many American ships as possible.

This is serious damage to the Allied Fleet and will enable me to begin rotating the CVs home for upgrade and repair.  It is a different ballgame now.  We just have to make sure to not get too cocky...

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Q-Ball
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RE: The Battle of Palmyra--Day TWO!

Post by Q-Ball »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Congrats, John and Q-Ball.  This is really the first hard lick (in my opinion) that the Allies have taken in the game (this is not a criticism of you guys, because you've tried for Heaven's sake, but they've just pulled back so far that you haven't been able to land any solid punches) [well...I guess New Zealand, India, and Ceylon are fairly solid).

I think we all thought the American CVs would pull back after sinking Yamato.  What are your opponents thinking?

Paul's comments indicate that he meant to pull them back, but they didn't for whatever reason. Maybe he will look at the TF settings. They only moved 1 hex or so, so even if was a DD top-off issue, they would have moved further.

Staying would have been a collosal mistake. Committing a division of 2 CV in an area where there was sure to be IJN CV's was risky enough. The right decision would have been to take that sinking of Yamato and RUN!

Not to put a damper on John's great Naval victory, the landing itself on Palmyra went pretty badly; CD guns really chewed up the transports, and the troops got ashore in poor shape. The Atoll Shock Attack was 0-1, and wasn't too close to a 1-1. Not sure how many supplies got ashore, but that is a problem. The damage is so bad, I think we'll lose every single transport.

Still, will gladly trade the land defeat for the Naval victory.
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RE: US CVs at Palmyra!!!

Post by flaggelant »

"Pilots hold their formations and drive in with a classic hammer and anvil attack"


I love it when that happens!! [:D]


On the land invasion;
with KB on cruising speed i'd say you can get in a really heavy bombardment on Palmyra before leaving the invasion force to itself again

and on supply;
can't Nells/ Betty's make a supply run towards the place (long range bombers aren't only good for sinking ships you know [;)])
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