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DuckofTindalos
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RE: Yamato

Post by DuckofTindalos »

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

This is what I am talking about 3 Guns to 1 Turret. This should be correct I think!



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I don't believe you are correct. IIRC 3x1 would represent 3 guns with each turret having one gun.3x3 means 3 guns with each turret having 3 guns. So in the first instance you would have three turrets with one gun each and the second instance, which I believe is correct, you would have one turret with 3 guns.

Herrbear is correct. "Turrets" in the above screenshot should be read as "number of barrels per mount"; if the ship in question is the real life Yamato, the correct setup would be "Num"=6 and "Turrets"=3 for the front and "Num"=3 and "Turrets"=3 for the rear.
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John 3rd
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Yamato

Post by John 3rd »

If that is the case then why does this BB have the following?


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DuckofTindalos
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RE: Yamato

Post by DuckofTindalos »

Er, because it's the Kongo, with four forward-facing guns in two twin mounts.[&:]
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John 3rd
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IJN LCU

Post by John 3rd »

Went through and updated the IJN LCUs. Stanislav--except for the BB turret issue--I think the files are ready to send to you. What is your situation right now for working on this?
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John 3rd
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RE: Yamato

Post by John 3rd »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Er, because it's the Kongo, with four forward-facing guns in two twin mounts.[&:]

That is how I read it.

Shouldn't then Yamato have 3 guns in 1 mount (x2 forward and x1 in the rear) like what the screenshot Posted above shows?
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John 3rd
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Old US BBs

Post by John 3rd »

Here is a different example that needs corrected:



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I read this as a BB with SIX turrets facing forward.
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DuckofTindalos
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RE: Yamato

Post by DuckofTindalos »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
ORIGINAL: Terminus

Er, because it's the Kongo, with four forward-facing guns in two twin mounts.[&:]

That is how I read it.

Shouldn't then Yamato have 3 guns in 1 mount (x2 forward and x1 in the rear) like what the screenshot Posted above shows?

Then you didn't read my reply to your post. "Turrets" doesn't equal "Number of Mounts", but "Number of BARRELS per mount".
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DuckofTindalos
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RE: Old US BBs

Post by DuckofTindalos »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Here is a different example that needs corrected:



Image

I read this as a BB with SIX turrets facing forward.

I don't know what's you've done with this battleship, but it's massively wrong. "Num" is the total number of barrels of the type facing in the indicated direction, "Turrets" is the number of barrels per mount. It doesn't make sense, but it's true. The above ship has a total of six guns, all facing front, in two mounts, and no gun facing backwards.
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DuckofTindalos
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RE: Old US BBs

Post by DuckofTindalos »

It's been this way all the time from stock WitP 1.0. It's not wrong.
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John 3rd
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RE: Yamato

Post by John 3rd »

Soooooooo...going by what you just said the North Carolina is correct with Weapon 1 having 3 guns in a 3 gun (triple) turret...RIGHT?

OR

Should it be Weapon 1: 3 guns in 1 turret

Look at Weapon 3: 10 5" guns in 5 TWIN turrets

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DuckofTindalos
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RE: Yamato

Post by DuckofTindalos »

Well, it's missing three guns facing rearwards, but other than that, yeah. Why you're not grouping A and B turrets into one line is a bit strange to me.
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John 3rd
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RE: Yamato

Post by John 3rd »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, it's missing three guns facing rearwards, but other than that, yeah. Why you're not grouping A and B turrets into one line is a bit strange to me.

This was done when Juan raised the ammo load for the warships so they had more staying power. Problem was the larger/newest BBs couldn't then reload their ammo. It was a bug that got corrected by splitting out the turrets.
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Don Bowen
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RE: Yamato

Post by Don Bowen »


It's very simple. The second number is the number of guns per turret.

Two Twin mounts is 4 guns, 2 per turret. Reads better if you think four guns in TWIN turrets, or two twin turrets if you prefer.

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RE: Yamato

Post by John 3rd »

Just emailed Juan to get him into this.

THANKS Don---this is how I read it. Kongo is right with 4 14" guns in two twin turrets. Yamato has 6 18" guns in two triple turrets. I need to correct the US Battleships so they are right...

EDIT: So Posts 921 and 922 are right--correct? Post 926 (North Carolina) is then wrong--right?


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DuckofTindalos
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RE: Yamato

Post by DuckofTindalos »

No, post 921 shows a ship with 3 46cm in 3 one-barrel mounts. It HAS to be 3*3.
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Local Yokel
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RE: Yamato

Post by Local Yokel »

I suspect Posts #416 and #417 in this thread may be pertinent, as it seems my suspicions may have been right about the problem Guctony encountered when trying to replenish Yamato's main battery magazines.

The problem seems to lie in the hard-coded ceiling on ops point expenditure when attempting to replenish: if the replenishment cost for a particular weapons slots exceeds 1000 then the operation just gets aborted. With the Yamatos and possibly some Allied BB's, the increased ammunition load has this effect.

Since Guctony was able to replenish successfully his rear-facing main battery magazine (3 rifles in one triple mount), it may be that the only way the increased ammunition load can be accommodated is by having each main battery turret taking up a single weapons slot: Weapons slots 1 and 2 each having Num 3, Turrets 3, forward facing, and Weapons slot 3 having Num 3, Turrets 3, rear facing. That may overcome the replenishment problem, but at the cost of another weapons slot, which may introduce other problems, including possible exhaustion of slots. There might also be side effects upon the ship's gunnery in a surface fight.

Best to test, I would think.

<edit> I don't actually know whether there is a 1000 op point upper limit for replenishing a slot, but that was what Juan surmised. </edit>
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John 3rd
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RE: Yamato

Post by John 3rd »

LY--You are correct as to why we had the problem. I had thought it was fixed, however, I did not do the fixing and as you mention that might have been the only way to get it to load.

It was my understanding with Juan that if we simply separated the turrets into 3x2 then we are OK, however, the modern 16"+ BBs with triple turrets all appear to be done as 3x3 with each turret.
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FatR
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RE: Yamato

Post by FatR »

They should be done as 3x3 (and they are done as 3x3 already, as far as I know). The number in "turrets" column is the number of barrels per turret, not the number of turrets. Post #926 is the correct setup. Post #917 is the wrong one. Don't be dense, John, please, you have even looked at the setup of the medium calibre already, so I don't know why you still missing the right idea.

Othwerwise, you can send me the file if you think you've done all you wanted to.
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Don Bowen
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RE: Yamato

Post by Don Bowen »

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

I suspect Posts #416 and #417 in this thread may be pertinent, as it seems my suspicions may have been right about the problem Guctony encountered when trying to replenish Yamato's main battery magazines.

The problem seems to lie in the hard-coded ceiling on ops point expenditure when attempting to replenish: if the replenishment cost for a particular weapons slots exceeds 1000 then the operation just gets aborted. With the Yamatos and possibly some Allied BB's, the increased ammunition load has this effect.

Since Guctony was able to replenish successfully his rear-facing main battery magazine (3 rifles in one triple mount), it may be that the only way the increased ammunition load can be accommodated is by having each main battery turret taking up a single weapons slot: Weapons slots 1 and 2 each having Num 3, Turrets 3, forward facing, and Weapons slot 3 having Num 3, Turrets 3, rear facing. That may overcome the replenishment problem, but at the cost of another weapons slot, which may introduce other problems, including possible exhaustion of slots. There might also be side effects upon the ship's gunnery in a surface fight.

Best to test, I would think.

<edit> I don't actually know whether there is a 1000 op point upper limit for replenishing a slot, but that was what Juan surmised. </edit>

Ships do indeed have a 1000 ops points limit - for everything. Loading, refueling, rearming, moving, etc.

Took a few minutes to check out the ops limit issue.

Yamato's 46cm guns have an effect of 3219.
The calculation for guns is effect *2, which is 6438. Note that this is in "pounds".
The 6 forward firing 46mm guns have 9 ammo points each. 6 * 9 = 54. 54 * 6438 = 347,652.
There is an additional adjustment of *4. Don't recall what that is for. This raises to 1,390,608.
Conversion to tons, with rounding gives us the final ops cost number of 696.

Bottom line, ops costs can delay rearming but Yamato is fully capable of rearming within the 1000 ops points limit.

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John 3rd
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RE: Yamato

Post by John 3rd »

ORIGINAL: FatR

They should be done as 3x3 (and they are done as 3x3 already, as far as I know). The number in "turrets" column is the number of barrels per turret, not the number of turrets. Post #926 is the correct setup. Post #917 is the wrong one. Don't be dense, John, please, you have even looked at the setup of the medium calibre already, so I don't know why you still missing the right idea.

Othwerwise, you can send me the file if you think you've done all you wanted to.



OK...perhaps it is drug, eghaustion, and/or denseness! Could be some, none, or all...

EDIT: Cannot spell either!


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