Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

Also... the whole gambit will compel him to commit a number of units there, which could entice him to pursue a DEI route to Japan, which is a much more treacherous route, as there is more possibility of error, than via the Pacific, or even India, as you observed in an earlier post.
[/quote]

Kind of my thinking here...Irvings are scouting out Derby as we speak. They have a tremendous range...and actually fly most of the time.[:)]

[Lowpe]

Derby...Irvings do the job....

Perhaps, I should move on northern Oz to help secure this area...so lightly held a few naval guard units would suffice.

[Lowpe]

Dec 16, 1942

Lost a 2 vp tanker, and then he nails a 28 vp tanker with two torps on her way to Java...all by submarines. Should not have traveled off the air coverage...

Heavy allied bombing of Mandalay on the ground troops there...night bombing of Kusaie.

A sentai sweeps Port Moresby, nothing there....

Other than that still moving troops, planes and ships around. Pretty boring stuff right now...

The A6M5c will be ready in four more months r&d, roughly 25 days or slightly less. [:)]

[Lowpe]

I have been using my Emily rather traditionally - as naval search planes and from not even torpedo equipped air fields (sigh). But, recently I got to thinking about Spidery's AAR and his use of night attacks...

Since I am being pounded mercilessly by night attacks, I thought I would turn 4 18 plane squadrons (Hikotai?) into my strategic bomber force.

What is not to like: Armor, high durability, some guns, 4 250 kg bombs, great range, flying boat. The first target most likely will be Brisbane's Industry...during periods of low moonlight, they will train.

I want the planes to act offensively from now on either in the night bombing role or the night torpedo attack role...naval search will be for Judy and Irv and maybe Betty.

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have been using my Emily rather traditionally - as naval search planes and from not even torpedo equipped air fields (sigh). But, recently I got to thinking about Spidery's AAR and his use of night attacks...

Since I am being pounded mercilessly by night attacks, I thought I would turn 4 18 plane squadrons (Hikotai?) into my strategic bomber force.

What is not to like: Armor, high durability, some guns, 4 250 kg bombs, great range, flying boat. The first target most likely will be Brisbane's Industry...during periods of low moonlight, they will train.

I want the planes to act offensively from now on either in the night bombing role or the night torpedo attack role...naval search will be for Judy and Irv and maybe Betty.

I don´t see any reason why not. But also, I would keep 1 Emily squadron trained and ready with torpedoes. They are tough torpedo bombers, with incredible range. Given your opponents willingness to move fleets without air-cover. You may find opportunities to catch him off-guard with long-range Emilies armed with torpedoes.

[Lowpe]

Dec 17 1942

About the best day in the air for Japan since my takeover, splashing 15 baddies to only three Japanese planes lost. The trick is to fly one plane splinter CAP, unbelievably successful![:D]

However, I lost another 2 vp tanker as I am juggling routes...lousy subs. Several hit and punished, but no idea on how effective it was.

Bombed Port Moresby, and swept, no Allied defenses. Allies in turn hit Magwe's airfield, Mandalay, and also a few spots in the Marshalls.

The IJN bombards Rangoon and Ambon, a full division is prepping for Derby, plans on the Oz adventure to follow...the first wave of reinforcements get to Singers and now on to Rangoon.

[Lowpe]

With some odds and ends from the Java campaign, I could make a strong play for northern Oz.

Darwin is still only a level 3 airbase, Derby and Broome are built up, so it wouldn't take that much to take the area and everything is in the area to begin with.

I would take the bases, eliminate what I can, and then hold northern Oz with light forces, I am not really concerned with holding on to it...

[Lowpe]

Dec 18, 1942

IJA bombers hit Port Moresby (40 percent runway damage), and Derby port sinking an AM there. Recon shows all of northern Oz lightly held, so we will go ahead with the plans for an invasion here...we will see what the Allies do in response.

Quite a few op losses for the allies, perhaps they are shifting planes...2 Japanese plane losses, and 10 for the Allies.

The normal heavy bombing raids in Burma, and also in the Marshalls now...however I successfully snuck a naval guard unit into Mili to beef up the coastal defenses there.

Off Perth, a large and loaded xak sunk by an Iboat.

Soerabaja is home to the first unit of Lilly IIbs, and a unit of KAI Dinahs. Perhaps they will see action shortly in the norther Oz adventure/raid.

I split another sentai at Rabaul into thirds and the section A is upgradeable to the KAIb Nick which I did...but then the other two sections can't upgrade to the KAIb only the KAIa and KAIc models. Odd, that.[&:]

Emily plane squadrons mostly gathered and busy training. Rossel should be a level 4 airfield in time for their big experiment...I think if they fly from less than a level 4 airfield they do so with reduced load(i.e. half).

And finally, the first Oscar IIa anti-ship sentai is up and operational, albeit in Canton. Got to get them forward.

[Lowpe]

I like to bemoan 4e bombers, but overall, maybe I am not doing so badly. Almost 300 of the bad boys destroyed (minus fog of war of course).

Of course, it doesn't feel like it since they keep coming, and coming.[:)]

[Lowpe]

Dec 20, 1942

Quiet mostly: allied bombing of Xmas Island Pacific and Burma. IJA bombed Port Moresby to no opposition again. It looks like Allies unwilling to fight for Port Moresby. Invasion forces are on ships headed there...

Wonder Planes:

My thinking here has changed a little bit - well a lot. Since this game needs to go the distance, I need to plan accordingly.

I soon should have lots of factories that I can convert over to whatever, and I am thinking about the wonder planes. The Ki-201 Karyu is great-- I have used it in the Downfall scenario and it literally can change the air war. However it is available in March of 1946. And the engine is Jan 1946. Ugh.[:(]

What would I need to invest in this frame to get her in mid 45? First Quarter 45? What would it take, considering research will start in Jan 1943. Spare no expense!

[Spidery]

5 Engine factories on the Turbojet and I get the following expected dates:

Number of Factories researching Ki-201: average [earliest in 40 runs, latest in 40 runs]
01: 1945-09-25 [1945-08-01, 1945-11-01]
05: 1945-04-02 [1945-01-22, 1945-07-12]
10: 1945-02-07 [1944-12-24, 1945-04-06]
20: 1944-12-26 [1944-11-19, 1945-02-01]

If you can find 5 engine factories then you probably only need 5-10 aircraft factories on R&D to get it (un)reasonably early.

This does not allow for any Allied damage to factories.

If you research the turbojet, I wonder how effective the Kikka would be as a Kamikaze?

[mind_messing]

Let's take things from the perspective of trying to beat the best the Allies have late-war, the P-51H Mustang.

Ki-94-II - better max altitude (counters the P-51H stratosweep nicely), slightly slower speed. Service rating of 3. Availbile Febuary '46, but uses an engine availible from '43.

Ki-201 - lower max altitude than P-51, but much faster. Service rating of 5, and both engine and plane are not availible till 1946. Uses 2 engines, so twice the cost of any other late war plane.

Ki-202 - same as above, but with a service rating of 4.

J7W1 - slightly slower speed and max altitude than P-51H. Service rating of 3.



I've no experiance myself with the late war air game. From comparing the statistics, a few things are apparent:

1. The Allies have far more high-altitude fighters than the Japanese. There are two dozen or so fighters that can break the 40k altitude mark, only two of those (Ki-94-II and Ki-102a) are Japanese.

In terms of altitude, the Ki-94-II is king. No other Allied plane can go higher. The Ki-94 will always get the altitude advantage on CAP.

2. Only three Japanese planes (the Ki-201 and the two models of Shusei) can go faster than the P-51H Mustang. Not sure how important max speed is, but the differences between the fastest planes aren't all that huge.

3. The climb rate on the Shusei models are unbeatable.


My conclusions

On paper, some combination of the Ki-94-II (for the altitude advantage) and the Shusei (for the speed advantage) seems best.

The Ki-202 vs Ki-201 comparison is interesting. The Shusei is very fragile, but a much faster climber, and an SR of 4. The ki-201 has an SR of 5, is slower and climbs slower, but has armour and a much higher durability. The Ki-201 however, performs far better at high altitudes.

Considering the main duty of late-war Japanese fighters is likely high-alt CAP over bases, the Ki-202 Shusei seems better: it climbs better, has a lower SR and half the cost of the Ki-201.

Discussion is welcome, I'm basing this just of looking at stats in Tracker.

[Lowpe]

Good points, so it seems it is definitely doable, now to decide on the frame.[:)] Happy problem!

No experience with the Ki-202. Intrigued by it.

Ki-202 vs Ki-201. I worry about the durability, the short range, the firepower and the durability. However, I would be tempted to go after the Ki-202 to be different.

In downfall, the 201 kills and kills. However, the AI is not good at sweeping like a player is ....

[mind_messing]

Ki-202 vs Ki-201. I worry about the durability, the short range, the firepower and the durability. However, I would be tempted to go after the Ki-202 to be different.

The more I think about it, the more I think you need both. The quick climb and speed of the Shusei combined with the high durability and armour of the 201. The 201 looks like the perfect 4E bomber killer to me, while the Shusei would get chewed up.

What about the Ki-94-II though? Propeller planes may not be all that sexy compared to jets, but it's the highest flying aircraft in the game, even overflying the American jets! The armament layout isn't as good as the Ki-201 or Shusei, but it's an SR 3 plane, and uses a '43 engine.

[Spidery]

I don't see how to use the rocket interceptors. With an SR of 4 and a max range of 2 you can't move them to a base (except very close) and fly them. Most of the time they will move by rail, be in need of maintenance and take ages because of the SR. At least with the jets you can transfer them to somewhere out of the way, get them repaired, and then transfer them back to the fight.

I suppose one "advantage" the rocket interceptors may have is that because of their low durability you get very few damaged planes. Therefore, you can keep them running CAP at the same base.

Also, I think there is a second role for late-war Japanese fighters and that is blunting the Soviets. The Soviet aircraft look like they will be slaughtered by the Ki-201 and are going to be on the losing side against Ki-94-II or Ki-83.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Spidery

I don't see how to use the rocket interceptors. With an SR of 4 and a max range of 2 you can't move them to a base (except very close) and fly them. Most of the time they will move by rail, be in need of maintenance and take ages because of the SR. At least with the jets you can transfer them to somewhere out of the way, get them repaired, and then transfer them back to the fight.

I suppose one "advantage" the rocket interceptors may have is that because of their low durability you get very few damaged planes. Therefore, you can keep them running CAP at the same base.

Also, I think there is a second role for late-war Japanese fighters and that is blunting the Soviets. The Soviet aircraft look like they will be slaughtered by the Ki-201 and are going to be on the losing side against Ki-94-II or Ki-83.

The Shusei are there for high altitude CAP against sweeps. They can outclimb every other plane to their altitude, and once they're there, they're faster than every plane the Allies have.

The high SR is the only downside, it keeps them restricted to big bases with plenty of aviation support. Considering when they arrive, they'll almost certainly be used over the Home Islands, where rail links and aviation support are in abundance.
Keep in mind that the Ki-201 has an SR of 5 (!!!), so chances are more than half will be down for repairs at any given time.

The jet planes strike me as the perfect aircraft for blunting the inumberable Allied fighter squadrons in the late-war. They fly in to a big airbase with a rail link, run rings round Allied sweeps for a day or two, then rail out to a rear-area base for repairs and downtime. Rinse and repeat. It won't give you air superiority, but it will keep attrition high amongst Allied fighters and airframes, and by 1945, that's the best you can hope for.

Basically, they're not a war winner, but they're some of the few Japanese planes capable of directly challenging the massive numbers of Thunderbolt/Mustang squadrons that the Allies will have in the late-game.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The more I think about it, the more I think you need both. The quick climb and speed of the Shusei combined with the high durability and armour of the 201. The 201 looks like the perfect 4E bomber killer to me, while the Shusei would get chewed up.

The 201 does indeed kill 4E bombers in downfall, it doesn't take many either...

I don't like the idea of having both...

I, too, worry about the 202 flying to destruction against 4Es...but perhaps with the speed comes a solid level of defense...so far the 201 doesn't get damaged by 4E defensive fire (replays are off, so no idea on the dynamics of the air fights).

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
What about the Ki-94-II though? Propeller planes may not be all that sexy compared to jets, but it's the highest flying aircraft in the game, even overflying the American jets! The armament layout isn't as good as the Ki-201 or Shusei, but it's an SR 3 plane, and uses a '43 engine.

The 94 has been used in a couple of games, and personally I don't like the gun layout. Just me...now I don't think anyone has used the 202![:D]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Spidery

I don't see how to use the rocket interceptors. With an SR of 4 and a max range of 2 you can't move them to a base (except very close) and fly them. Most of the time they will move by rail, be in need of maintenance and take ages because of the SR. At least with the jets you can transfer them to somewhere out of the way, get them repaired, and then transfer them back to the fight.

Well, there are two must protect industrial bases to protect on the HI, Tokyo and Osaka, and there are 8 locations with over 100 HI, and 9 with over 100 LI. At least in my game.

My goal for these planes would be to keep the industry rolling along so I can make the end. Hopeless, I know, but one can dream and connive can't they?

Once the 202 is at either Osaka or Tokyo it isn't going anywhere. Stood down to recover morale maybe, but it isn't going to spend time on the rails...

[Lowpe]

Ok, last plane question for a while.

I have been looking at the Patsy as a plane to accelerate. How useful do you think having the ability to make such long range strikes would be late in the game?