New to the game - Basic Questions

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

In determining the number of ships present for a naval combat, when if ever, do CPs count? I assume if they ever count they count as 1/2 of a ship?

They always count (if they are included in the combat) at the rate of 1 ship for every 2 CPs, rounded up.

[IBender]

Thank you. Next question. Playing global with all options, Russia declared war on the 3 baltic states. then usa got the message usa can never delcare war on germany. I didnt realize that this could happen but now I have read the rules and I think am good on this part. The part that confuses me a bit still is how is russia supposed to get the baltic states? What is a good way?

Thanks

[paulderynck]

You have to make sure that the USA has enough chits in the Entry Pool for Ge/It. There are chances to lose a chit when the Allies DoW countries or Russia claims Borderlands (not directly from the claim, but if the claim is denied - so be careful!), occupies East Poland, or the Baltic States.

The USA starts the game with 3 chits and usually they all should go in the Ge/It Entry Pool. If the USA loses a chit due to an Entry Action and has none in a pool, then the consequence is the USA can never DoW the pool's target.

[IBender]

In my current global game. 1940 Paris is completely surrounded by germans and basically all french troops outside of paris have been destroyed. Suddenly the game give me 'the french' the chance to "surrender france" I declined and forced the germans to attack and take the city. Question....why was I given this option to surrender when I can not imagine any benefit to surrendering? Even against horrible odds, a super low role by the germans might hurt them so why surrender france?

Thanks and hope that makes sense.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

In determining the number of ships present for a naval combat, when if ever, do CPs count? I assume if they ever count they count as 1/2 of a ship?

They always count (if they are included in the combat) at the rate of 1 ship for every 2 CPs, rounded up.

I think I may get it know if the answer to my follow-up question is yes. In a submarine combat do only the CP's count in determining the number of ships attacked?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

In determining the number of ships present for a naval combat, when if ever, do CPs count? I assume if they ever count they count as 1/2 of a ship?

They always count (if they are included in the combat) at the rate of 1 ship for every 2 CPs, rounded up.

I think I may get it know if the answer to my follow-up question is yes. In a submarine combat do only the CP's count in determining the number of ships attacked?

Yes, only the CPs are counted for submarine combat. And on the other side it is only the SUBs that are counted.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Azorn01

Thank you. Next question. Playing global with all options, Russia declared war on the 3 baltic states. then usa got the message usa can never delcare war on germany. I didnt realize that this could happen but now I have read the rules and I think am good on this part. The part that confuses me a bit still is how is russia supposed to get the baltic states? What is a good way?

Thanks

A clarification might be needed here.

USSR can occupy the Baltic States without declaring war. The US entry penalty for declaring war on the Baltic States are steep. Occupying them instead of DOWs is not as costly.

The relevant rule for occupying the Baltic States is cut in below and I recommend that it is read.

RAC: 19.5.2 Baltic States
The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia)
during any Allied land movement step after it has exercised its rights to eastern Poland. You can only exercise your
rights over those states that are neutral. [Clarification. The USSR may occupy the Baltic States in the same impulse
it occupies eastern Poland - Dec. 29, 2007.]

You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of the Baltic States.

Once you exercise those rights, the Baltic States are considered immediately conquered by the Soviet Union
(without the Baltic States being aligned or its units set up).

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Azorn01

In my current global game. 1940 Paris is completely surrounded by germans and basically all french troops outside of paris have been destroyed. Suddenly the game give me 'the french' the chance to "surrender france" I declined and forced the germans to attack and take the city. Question....why was I given this option to surrender when I can not imagine any benefit to surrendering? Even against horrible odds, a super low role by the germans might hurt them so why surrender france?

Thanks and hope that makes sense.

The surrender option is mainly for situations when France, and the other Allies, see more benefit from surrendering (mainland) France than to fight on.

For example: If Germany seems to want to capture all mainland French ports before declaring Vichy. Thus increasing the chance that the French territories goes Vichy. France can then stop this by surrendering. France will then fight on from their remaining colonies. This is treated as a incomplete conquest although the US entry effect is halved.

[paulderynck]

This is the rule: "During any peace step, you can surrender a home country of a major power that controls less than half the printed factory stacks in the home country. You can surrender a home country with no printed factories if there is an enemy land unit there."

[brian brian]

While France is "fighting from the colonies", their only Primary supply sources are in France. So if the Allies do not hold a coastal French city, it can become quite difficult to operate French units outside France. In particular, to re-organize French naval units. So the surrender option is there, after such the 'Incomplete Conquest' process is used and France picks a new Home Country from it's aligned minors - which then gives it a supply source that units can trace to starting the next turn (including for re-organization).

Thus the Germans can not simply surround one interior French city, decline Vichy, and immobilize everything in the French colonies.

It can become a difficult decision for the Allies during, say, a siege of Toulouse with an Axis campaign into Spain obviously next. If the French Fleet is disorganized there will be a one turn delay to get it fighting again as the Re-organization phase is before the Surrender phase. So it is best for the Allies to try and hold some coastal French cities for as long as they can.

[IBender]

Actually all of this has opened my eyes up to aspects I didnt really know or realize. thanks this helped a lot and I will read up on the rules.

Question regarding russia occupy poland. Am I correct that there is one 'one tiny window" when russia can exercise the option to claim easter poland? and if that tiny moment in time is missed that russia cannot in the future claim poland? One practice game I occupied eastern poland and the next game I forgot and tried in the next impulse to occupy but could not.

Thanks

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: Azorn01

Actually all of this has opened my eyes up to aspects I didnt really know or realize. thanks this helped a lot and I will read up on the rules.

Question regarding russia occupy poland. Am I correct that there is one 'one tiny window" when russia can exercise the option to claim easter poland? and if that tiny moment in time is missed that russia cannot in the future claim poland? One practice game I occupied eastern poland and the next game I forgot and tried in the next impulse to occupy but could not.

Thanks

Yes, there is a small window of occupying eastern Poland. It will always be at least the whole of the S/O 39 turn, and ends when the Germans conquers Poland.

[paulderynck]

That makes for an interesting situation though. If Poland is completely conquered, the garrison situation can become odd.

[Centuur]

Since the USSR can't DoW Germany in 1939 (you can't declare war the year the pact is made, which is 1939 for the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact), there should not be a problem here...

[IBender]

A clarification please on various rules.... I am a little confused and unclear on the various location and purposes of the rules.

there are the printed manuals that come with this computer game (I dont have those)

the rules as coded

the rules as written

the players manual vol. 1

the players manual vol. 2

I am only now starting to think about this as I have just been browsing them all looking for answers. Can someone put these maybe in order or provide some sort of explanation for them? Hope that makes sense?

[IBender]

Regarding breaking down corps. If Russia breaks down the 4-3 4th Russian infantry army into 2 division. Does the 4th russian infantry return to the pool of units I can build with during the production phase? Leaving the 2 new division on the map? Basically, is this a way to infinitely increase the number of units a country can create? Build unit, break down then build again?

thanks

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: Azorn01

Regarding breaking down corps. If Russia breaks down the 4-3 4th Russian infantry army into 2 division. Does the 4th russian infantry return to the pool of units I can build with during the production phase? Leaving the 2 new division on the map? Basically, is this a way to infinitely increase the number of units a country can create? Build unit, break down then build again?

thanks

No. The 4-3 goes into a separate pool (the "breakdown pool") and remains there until you either recombine the two divisions into a corps or until both divisions are destroyed, at which point the corps will return to your build pool. In the mean time, if one of the divisions is destroyed but not the other, it also goes into the breakdown pool until such time as both are there.

Although there is a bug that will occasionally trigger giving you unlimited divisions in your build pool when that happens. It used to be common but has been mostly killed - only occurs rarely these days.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Azorn01

A clarification please on various rules.... I am a little confused and unclear on the various location and purposes of the rules.

there are the printed manuals that come with this computer game (I dont have those)

the rules as coded

the rules as written

the players manual vol. 1

the players manual vol. 2

I am only now starting to think about this as I have just been browsing them all looking for answers. Can someone put these maybe in order or provide some sort of explanation for them? Hope that makes sense?

RAW are the rules for the board game, we use it many times because it's easier to use them when we are not with the game at hand (like me now at work), since they are 98-99% like RAC. RAC is the adaptation of RAW to the computer game, with the (minimal) changes that have been necessary because of the scale of the map or other reasons.

As for the other two I don't have it so clear but I believe it tends to be a more friendly version on how to play instead of just game rules.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

ORIGINAL: Azorn01

Regarding breaking down corps. If Russia breaks down the 4-3 4th Russian infantry army into 2 division. Does the 4th russian infantry return to the pool of units I can build with during the production phase? Leaving the 2 new division on the map? Basically, is this a way to infinitely increase the number of units a country can create? Build unit, break down then build again?

thanks

No. The 4-3 goes into a separate pool (the "breakdown pool") and remains there until you either recombine the two divisions into a corps or until both divisions are destroyed, at which point the corps will return to your build pool. In the mean time, if one of the divisions is destroyed but not the other, it also goes into the breakdown pool until such time as both are there.

Although there is a bug that will occasionally trigger giving you unlimited divisions in your build pool when that happens. It used to be common but has been mostly killed - only occurs rarely these days.

When you are playing with divisions but without the unlimited breakdown rule, you can break down corps/armies if you have divisions in your forcepool. If you do so, than the corps is returned to the force pool and it can be rebuild.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: Azorn01

A clarification please on various rules.... I am a little confused and unclear on the various location and purposes of the rules.

there are the printed manuals that come with this computer game (I dont have those)

the rules as coded

the rules as written

the players manual vol. 1

the players manual vol. 2

I am only now starting to think about this as I have just been browsing them all looking for answers. Can someone put these maybe in order or provide some sort of explanation for them? Hope that makes sense?

RAW are the rules for the board game, we use it many times because it's easier to use them when we are not with the game at hand (like me now at work), since they are 98-99% like RAC. RAC is the adaptation of RAW to the computer game, with the (minimal) changes that have been necessary because of the scale of the map or other reasons.

As for the other two I don't have it so clear but I believe it tends to be a more friendly version on how to play instead of just game rules.

Rules as written are the RAW version 7 as comes with the board game.
Rules as coded is the way those rules have been put into the program and also states diversions made on RAW.
The player manuals have descriptions of forms, maps and other tools which are present in MWIF and are usefull when you want to do something, but don't know exactly how to do it in the program. They also contain advise from players on how to play this game... [;)]