Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
ORIGINAL: obvert
I admit I forget about the strat mode on roads the Allies can do. Note to self! Thanks.
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: obvert
I admit I forget about the strat mode on roads the Allies can do. Note to self! Thanks.
You know, I am reading both AARs and now think I should have not mentioned it as it might be construed as giving you an unfair advantage. I honestly don't know if GJ is aware of this (although he should be[;)]). Please send him a PM and let him know that I mentioned this and it is only fair that he knows as well. Sorry for saying too much but I think it is OK if both of you are aware of it.
ORIGINAL: obvert
This kind of a day in the war would be a complete disaster. About 30-35% losses. Yikes.
ORIGINAL: obvert
One thing I'm learning is not to trust LR CAP alone to protect bombers. It's useful, but not a replacement for escorts. I've got to get comfortable with the Allied material used offensively. I have lots of ideas, and I have great examples in what Jocke and Torsten have done. I just want to tweak things a little and not buy into the idea that I have to always wipe out the strongpoint. This time I've had to go for it, but I won't always.
ORIGINAL: koniu
ORIGINAL: obvert
This kind of a day in the war would be a complete disaster. About 30-35% losses. Yikes.
In real world, day like that will probably stop any air offensive for weeks if not for months. In game, few days and You fight again.
It has for me too! Not because I wanted to stop completely, but for several reasons.ORIGINAL: koniu
ORIGINAL: obvert
This kind of a day in the war would be a complete disaster. About 30-35% losses. Yikes.
In real world, day like that will probably stop any air offensive for weeks if not for months. In game, few days and You fight again.
ORIGINAL: obvert
One thing I'm learning is not to trust LR CAP alone to protect bombers. It's useful, but not a replacement for escorts. I've got to get comfortable with the Allied material used offensively. I have lots of ideas, and I have great examples in what Jocke and Torsten have done. I just want to tweak things a little and not buy into the idea that I have to always wipe out the strongpoint. This time I've had to go for it, but I won't always.
Offensive LCAP is great weapon (sometimes) but also it messing up with game air engine. Especially when multiple groups and big plane numbers are involved. My experience show that usually it works against person using it. LCAP is helping bombers because it works like high altitude escort but very often it disturb sweeps not allowing or limiting numbers of sweeping planes that can intercept enemy CAP
ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: koniu
ORIGINAL: obvert
This kind of a day in the war would be a complete disaster. About 30-35% losses. Yikes.
In real world, day like that will probably stop any air offensive for weeks if not for months. In game, few days and You fight again.
Yeah, there needs to be a heavier morale hit when you have this type of loss. Should knock it back all the way to 35 - 40% in this case. That would force you to ground that unit and/or pull it back to rear area for a bit to recuperate ... if you do try to fly it again, it will fail most of the checks, launch in fragments, likely abort on the way to target, and suffer more morale loss.
I suspect and beleive that Henderson simply ran out of time on a lot of things. You can look at the game from a developer perspective and see so many 'hooks' that are not fully utilized, this is an example of one. Units do take a morale hit, but not a serious one. I suspect they simply ran out of time to fully test and so left the implementation incomplete. If you think about the amount of testing required just to balance this one minor feature ....
Maybe what we can do is form a players beta union. The union could propose some minor adjustment projects to Michael like this. Set up a test bed where it can be initially tweaked and readily tested (shared with Michael for that purpose), then test in some test H2H test games to confirm magnitude, then released as part of the beta.
I can think of 20 - 30 minor items like this easily. I can also think of a number of people here who would be good candidates for that union ... let me start with both of you. [;)] Experienced. Level headed. ...
Just a thought ...
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: obvert
I agree. It's one of th etchings I wanted to figure out on the Allied side, and early indications are use it only as a small part of the whole package.
Interesting.
I am going to chime in since I think I was one of the first real proponents of LRCAP in this forum. I use LRCAP for escort and never use the regular escort. I have had nothing but success with it over the years. However, I only rarely use it in conjunction with sweeps but it seems to be very effective. I tend to stay away from ultra massive air battles as the Allies at least until later in the campaign. We use a max altitude for all fighters and I set the LRCAP at the max level on all occasions. I find that they will drop down and fight enemy fighters no matter the elevation. I use sweep in conjunction but try to limit it to maybe one or two units sweeping with the rest on CAP. The fatigue and OP losses are a bother but I find it much better than the losses to regular escort. The Allies just don't have the pilots for that sort of thing. I will say that on occasion the LRCAP does not engage and my bombers get stung but since I can't seem to get my bombers to coordinate I do like the fact that there us usually some CAP there as the various bombers take turns going in.
But perhaps this works because Ark and I tend to favor the same tactics. Maybe there is a counter that I have not seen yet.
ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Erik,
I understand your attempt to suppress Patna prior to your planned airborne operations, but what are you trying to achieve at Hyderabad with your air operations? Are you trying to suppress the airbase prior to launching ground bombing missions against the defenders? Do you even need to suppress the airbase at all to support a ground assault?
I wonder if it wouldn't be more productive to isolate Hyderabad first by taking the surrounding bases before trying to confront the bulk of Japan's air defences head on? As long as GreyJoy is allowed to mass his air defence at Hyderabad and Patna, I see you suffering unsustainable air losses without necessarily contributing towards your actual objectives.
Perhaps I'm not seeing something clearly?
ORIGINAL: Sangeli
I really like using LRCAP as escorts because you know they will be there for every bombing mission. If you know you're going to suffer coordination problems it's the only to really ensure every mission gets escorted. That being said, as you've pointed it out has its weaknesses and the escort mission is superior as long as it flies.
Those days like you had in Hyderabad are bound to happen when you use weak 2E for dangerous missions on air bases like that. I honestly stopped using 2E in that role b/c the losses from those types of mission were waaay too high. Instead I only used 4E and fighters. You don't get as much punch in the attack of course but your losses will plummet and part of that ties back to my point above; with fewer bomber squadrons flying it's easier to provide effective escort. Though often times its difficult to assess what is a safe mission and what is a dangerous one so mistakes still happen...
ORIGINAL: obvert
Well, the bombardment of Hyderabad goes about as well as the air strikes. I tried first with the whole stack, all units being fortified with 1-2 forts, and with decent experience in the 50-70 range. I ended up with significantly higher casualties in spite of having nearly double the guns in the hex.
Next I tried an arty unit only bombardment. This was even worse, resulting in almost 30 guns destroyed, luckily most of them 3.7" mountains guns, not the 25 pounder. Unfortunately I accidentally left these on for a day two which was more of the same. [:-]
I have a lot of good 4.5" and 18 and 25 pounder guns in hex, and the units have decent experience. He could be very well fortified here, but still this seems extreme.
What am I not doing, or what am I not doing well?
