The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

If you keep pressing his fuel sources I bet he will get local shortages soon.
He burned helluvalot fuel.
He has more ships than historical.
You even kept a fuel center, occupied in your Sumatra campaign.
He lost the Burma fuel.

His stocks simply cant be ample.

He has a gazillion of those small tankers (if he didnt stop merchant ship production) but he will feel the loss of fuel.

John might have local fuel shortages but Dan's prefers his subs with the fleet so I don't think he has sunk a lot of merchant tonnage. I don't know Johns HI resources but I be he is not hurting for oil or resources. not so sure about fuel. As you say, there are a million of these tiny tankers. It's not the loss of these little tankers but now John probably has to increase escorts. I doubt he has the warships to dedicate but maybe some old Cl's

BTW Dan, when is the last time you has a bonafide 100% sighting of the KB?

I think you misread what I said.

[Canoerebel]

One of John's fleet CVs (Zuikaku?) took a torp from a sub about ten days or two weeks back, just NW of Pagan. That was probably KB, though it might've been only a portion. Prior to that, full KB was confirmed on the New Guinea northwest coast about a month ago, when John raided Sabang.

[MakeeLearn]

Somewhere on the horizon.......

[Capt. Harlock]

Those TKs were worth two points apiece, the PBs one each.

The horses looked good on the track but didn't pay off at the window.

A two-point tanker took 13 shells and 3 torpedoes?? There shouldn't have been anything left to hit after the first fish.

[Canoerebel]

A certain fraulein with a ponderously stomping Teddy Bear avatar is not going to be pleased.

[Canoerebel]

5/18/44

See map for details.

[Canoerebel]

With the use of a modestly-sized army, no ships, and a large contingent of fighters, 2EB and 4EB, the Allies have pushed Japan out of Burma (well, almost).

This modest investment yielded a nice return: the near-destruction of a Japanese army. This, in turn, has forced John to scramble to establish a new MLR. I want to keep up the pressure, or the appearance of pressure. Who knows, more cracks might appear.

Supply is an issue for my troops, now, so my air force can't rampage like it has since January 1. If I find that I simply can't make beneficial use of them, though, they can report for duty at the twin level 9 airfields on Luzon.

In fact, now that I've put that down in writing, it sounds like a great idea. But I'll have to watch supply levels on Luzon carefully, lest I burn through stockpiles at an unsustainable rate.

[Lowpe]

Can you elaborate a little on China? I have often wondered what it would be like to not take China as Japan. You lose a huge source of possible VPs, but then on the other hand if Japan is relatively quiet in China they have the opportunity to bank all that supply.

Does cutting the Burma Road handicap all of the China's offensive options so far for lack of supply?

[CaptBeefheart]

You've probably noticed this, but just in case you haven't, I've had luck with supply moving from Ramree to Rangoon. Ramree with a naval base force or two works pretty well as a supply convoy destination.

Cheers,
CC

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Can you elaborate a little on China? I have often wondered what it would be like to not take China as Japan. You lose a huge source of possible VPs, but then on the other hand if Japan is relatively quiet in China they have the opportunity to bank all that supply.

Does cutting the Burma Road handicap all of the China's offensive options so far for lack of supply?

Yes, it's hard for the Allies to engage in meaningful offensives when the Burma Road is cut. Supply, at least for me, has always been meager. Even when I loaded up Ramree and Akyab with supply it didn't flow into China since John held Lashoi, Meiktila, etc.

The Burma Road has been open for a few days now. Too soon to tell what effect that will have on the pace of operations in China. I have a handful of Chinese units set to take replacements and a few Allies units moving into the theater.

I can't mount any real air campaign. But when I load Rangoon up with supply one of these days, we'll see if it flows into China.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The Burma Road has been open for a few days now. Too soon to tell what effect that will have on the pace of operations in China. I have a handful of Chinese units set to take replacements and a few Allies units moving into the theater.

I can't mount any real air campaign. But when I load Rangoon up with supply one of these days, we'll see if it flows into China.

Burma Road openness adds 500 supply a day to Tsuyung, nothing else. So supply flow from the coast to Tsuyung and beyond is needed, and road network after Lashio is sketchy. Building up the bases on the route would help but I don't know if it would be enough to open way to meaningful flow.
I wonder if anyone has tried some proactive usage of command HQs to draw supply through. Like place HQ at Paoshan, wait for it to draw supply from Burma, then march it out of the base to free up the pile and let it flow further. Rince and repeat. Setting nearby Burma bases on stockpile can prevent the flowback

[JohnDillworth]

Once the Burma road is open new supply will to China will be sucked up upgrading the China to 1943 infantry. I believe if you move HQ units into China you will pull increasing amounts from Ramaree or Rangoon. You can gets enough supply to support multiple Allied armies this way

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The Burma Road has been open for a few days now. Too soon to tell what effect that will have on the pace of operations in China. I have a handful of Chinese units set to take replacements and a few Allies units moving into the theater.

I can't mount any real air campaign. But when I load Rangoon up with supply one of these days, we'll see if it flows into China.

Burma Road openness adds 500 supply a day to Tsuyung, nothing else. So supply flow from the coast to Tsuyung and beyond is needed, and road network after Lashio is sketchy. Building up the bases on the route would help but I don't know if it would be enough to open way to meaningful flow.
I wonder if anyone has tried some proactive usage of command HQs to draw supply through. Like place HQ at Paoshan, wait for it to draw supply from Burma, then march it out of the base to free up the pile and let it flow further. Rince and repeat. Setting nearby Burma bases on stockpile can prevent the flowback

You can accomplish the same thing with the supply spinner.

As Japan, I have had supply flow west through this area so I don't know why it wouldn't be able to flow east.

Building up the bases helps for supply to those bases only. The maximum draw can come from anywhere, and is not stopped along the way by a lower draw base. For example, Mandalay might have a maximum draw of only 500 but Lashio might be built higher to have a maximum draw of 1200. A supply route to Lashio traced through Mandalay will not be limited to 500 - it only takes into account the base of origination and the destination that needs the supplies.

Likewise, a ton of supply might flow through to Paoshan and beyond, but given the terrain and road categories, it is unlikely.


That's my understanding, anyway.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The Burma Road has been open for a few days now. Too soon to tell what effect that will have on the pace of operations in China. I have a handful of Chinese units set to take replacements and a few Allies units moving into the theater.

I can't mount any real air campaign. But when I load Rangoon up with supply one of these days, we'll see if it flows into China.

Burma Road openness adds 500 supply a day to Tsuyung, nothing else. So supply flow from the coast to Tsuyung and beyond is needed, and road network after Lashio is sketchy. Building up the bases on the route would help but I don't know if it would be enough to open way to meaningful flow.
I wonder if anyone has tried some proactive usage of command HQs to draw supply through. Like place HQ at Paoshan, wait for it to draw supply from Burma, then march it out of the base to free up the pile and let it flow further. Rince and repeat. Setting nearby Burma bases on stockpile can prevent the flowback

You can accomplish the same thing with the supply spinner.

As Japan, I have had supply flow west through this area so I don't know why it wouldn't be able to flow east.

Building up the bases helps for supply to those bases only. The maximum draw can come from anywhere, and is not stopped along the way by a lower draw base. For example, Mandalay might have a maximum draw of only 500 but Lashio might be built higher to have a maximum draw of 1200. A supply route to Lashio traced through Mandalay will not be limited to 500 - it only takes into account the base of origination and the destination that needs the supplies.

Likewise, a ton of supply might flow through to Paoshan and beyond, but given the terrain and road categories, it is unlikely.


That's my understanding, anyway.

Building up those bases will help increase supply flow, but it still won't be enough to supply the LARGE force required to crack all the way through those mountain defenses in any reasonable time frame.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Can you elaborate a little on China? I have often wondered what it would be like to not take China as Japan. You lose a huge source of possible VPs, but then on the other hand if Japan is relatively quiet in China they have the opportunity to bank all that supply.

Does cutting the Burma Road handicap all of the China's offensive options so far for lack of supply?

Having completed a full campaign as the Allies, as long as the road is open and the Allied player floods Rangoon with supply the supply will flow easily into China. Likewise it drives me crazy that the Japanese player can attack out of China and supply a massive force in interior Burma. This just should not happen either way. For this reason I think the Japanese player must drive China out of the war. With the easy flow of supply and if there are no restrictions on moving other Allied units into China it is simply too easy for the Allies to build up major airbases. In addition, it is really easy for the Allies to invade China and with a viable Chinese force intact to assist, the open terrain in Southern China just devour the Japanese Army. Not to mention the drain on supply. Soooo....I think John is in a fairly poor position in China if Dan finds a way to exploit it. But then again John has a few problems in the PI as well. [;)] The only consolation is that it is a long walk into China from Burma and this might dampen any Allied player's enthusiasm.

So, unless the Japanese player is going for an auto victory elsewhere, taking out China is a must.

[Canoerebel]

+1

[Canoerebel]

5/19/44

Burma: Unclear still whether John intends to make a stand at Moulmein. 41k troops there today, after two beat up units are driven back into the city. Let's see what it looks like tomorrow.

The Sam made its first appearance there today, but Allied fighters (especially the Spit VIII) seemed to handle it well.

Fun House: Important rendezvous at and near Talaud-eilanden tomorrow, when Death Star and the Herd meet up with a big reinforcing TF from the DEI. After that, lots of TFs go both ways.

Tacloban should fall on the next attack (unless the dice roll is a bad one).

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Can you elaborate a little on China? I have often wondered what it would be like to not take China as Japan. You lose a huge source of possible VPs, but then on the other hand if Japan is relatively quiet in China they have the opportunity to bank all that supply.

Does cutting the Burma Road handicap all of the China's offensive options so far for lack of supply?

Having completed a full campaign as the Allies, as long as the road is open and the Allied player floods Rangoon with supply the supply will flow easily into China. Likewise it drives me crazy that the Japanese player can attack out of China and supply a massive force in interior Burma. This just should not happen either way. For this reason I think the Japanese player must drive China out of the war. With the easy flow of supply and if there are no restrictions on moving other Allied units into China it is simply too easy for the Allies to build up major airbases. In addition, it is really easy for the Allies to invade China and with a viable Chinese force intact to assist, the open terrain in Southern China just devour the Japanese Army. Not to mention the drain on supply. Soooo....I think John is in a fairly poor position in China if Dan finds a way to exploit it. But then again John has a few problems in the PI as well. [;)] The only consolation is that it is a long walk into China from Burma and this might dampen any Allied player's enthusiasm.

So, unless the Japanese player is going for an auto victory elsewhere, taking out China is a must.

Yes, +10 to all points.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: GetAssista


Burma Road openness adds 500 supply a day to Tsuyung, nothing else. So supply flow from the coast to Tsuyung and beyond is needed, and road network after Lashio is sketchy. Building up the bases on the route would help but I don't know if it would be enough to open way to meaningful flow.
I wonder if anyone has tried some proactive usage of command HQs to draw supply through. Like place HQ at Paoshan, wait for it to draw supply from Burma, then march it out of the base to free up the pile and let it flow further. Rince and repeat. Setting nearby Burma bases on stockpile can prevent the flowback

You can accomplish the same thing with the supply spinner.

As Japan, I have had supply flow west through this area so I don't know why it wouldn't be able to flow east.

Building up the bases helps for supply to those bases only. The maximum draw can come from anywhere, and is not stopped along the way by a lower draw base. For example, Mandalay might have a maximum draw of only 500 but Lashio might be built higher to have a maximum draw of 1200. A supply route to Lashio traced through Mandalay will not be limited to 500 - it only takes into account the base of origination and the destination that needs the supplies.

Likewise, a ton of supply might flow through to Paoshan and beyond, but given the terrain and road categories, it is unlikely.


That's my understanding, anyway.

Building up those bases will help increase supply flow, but it still won't be enough to supply the LARGE force required to crack all the way through those mountain defenses in any reasonable time frame.

It will help increase supply flow... to the bases being built up [:)].

But yes, in a short period of time not enough supply will flow through to China to supply the large force necessary of breaking apart strongholds, particularly in mountain terrain. You could reasonably anticipate being able to conduct a modest campaign of aerial harassment from Chinese airfields using USAAF aircraft, however. In fact, once longer range models are available, you could base relatively few units at a relatively large number of bases - transfer them between bases to avoid being bombed on the airfields in between your harassing air raids. There are several somewhat self sufficient places where this would be viable: Changsha, Chungking, Sian, etc.

[Canoerebel]

1. I have 365k supply at Legaspi and Naga, with another 125k inbound. That sounds like a lot, but those 4EB eat through it at a big clip. I'm going to have to monitor that carefully.

2. As long as the 4EB have enough supply to operate, Luzon should be as bad as, or even worse than, Burma for John. In some ways the recipe is the same: big Allied airfields and lots of fighters and bombers in close proximity to enemy units in a variety of terrain and lacking air parity. John is closer to his supply sources. But the Allied army is far, far stronger. And, in Burma, I didn't have a navy in play. Unless something in the equation changes, Luzon should be a great debacle for John, as soon as I turn my attention fully to its conquest.

3. NavSearch reported at least two enemy combat TFs in the Bay of Bengal, and closing on Rangoon or Pegu rather than Akyab, as best I can tell. I even received a "send main body" message. I'm interested in seeing if this TF tries to sweep the new Allied ports of supply ships or if it bombards the Allied stack near Moulmein.