Admiral's Edition General Thread

[CV Zuikaku]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

This is not what this thread is for.

Well, there are offtopics flaming everywhere today[;)]
Maybe it's the full moon outside [8D]

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

I am not sure if this is the right thread for the question, or if the question is already answered. If the wrong thread, then please direct me to the right thread.

Currently, if Japan advances beyond a certain point in North America, the arrival of certain ground units is immediate and the arrival of others is advanced by 180 days. Has any consideration been given to applying these rules to an invasion of India by Japan, especially if before a certain date? I have no idea what Churchill would have done if Calcutta was invaded in Jan or Feb or 42, but I doubt if upgrading of fighters etc would have waited until May of 42.

Singapore and the DEI were the corks in the bottle that kept the IJN out of the Indian Ocean until April. El Cid goes into Burma using air-mobile tactics, and that might be able to reach Calcutta in a month, but I doubt it. A land campaign runs out of supply in northern Burma. Besides the defence of India was an application of the principle of economy of force until mid-1944.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

I am not sure if this is the right thread for the question, or if the question is already answered. If the wrong thread, then please direct me to the right thread.

Currently, if Japan advances beyond a certain point in North America, the arrival of certain ground units is immediate and the arrival of others is advanced by 180 days. Has any consideration been given to applying these rules to an invasion of India by Japan, especially if before a certain date? I have no idea what Churchill would have done if Calcutta was invaded in Jan or Feb or 42, but I doubt if upgrading of fighters etc would have waited until May of 42.

Congratulations, you've found the right thread.

AE has additional Allied reinforcements if the Japanese invade the West Coast of North America, reach certain parts of India or Australia, or land in New Zealand.

Only the North American reinforcements arrive "in theatre" . . . reinforcements for the others arrive in off-map boxes (coming from England or the Med) and have to be shipped in.

For the US, invasion reinforcements consist of 4 US divisions, a Canadian brigade and a provisional armored brigade along with two Corps HQ commanded by George Patton (superb!) and Lloyd Fredenhall (not so much). Combined with US forces in-game, but confined to the West Coast for training -- generally 1-2 Armored Divisions, 2-3 infantry divisions and a couple of division equivalents of smaller units -- the Allied player, or even the AI, should have ample forces to crush any invasion the Japanese player is likely to be able to scrape together.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

I am not sure if this is the right thread for the question, or if the question is already answered. If the wrong thread, then please direct me to the right thread.

Currently, if Japan advances beyond a certain point in North America, the arrival of certain ground units is immediate and the arrival of others is advanced by 180 days. Has any consideration been given to applying these rules to an invasion of India by Japan, especially if before a certain date? I have no idea what Churchill would have done if Calcutta was invaded in Jan or Feb or 42, but I doubt if upgrading of fighters etc would have waited until May of 42.

Congratulations, you've found the right thread.

AE has additional Allied reinforcements if the Japanese invade the West Coast of North America, reach certain parts of India or Australia, or land in New Zealand.

Only the North American reinforcements arrive "in theatre" . . . reinforcements for the others arrive in off-map boxes (coming from England or the Med) and have to be shipped in.

For the US, invasion reinforcements consist of 4 US divisions, a Canadian brigade and a provisional armored brigade along with two Corps HQ commanded by George Patton (superb!) and Lloyd Fredenhall (not so much). Combined with US forces in-game, but confined to the West Coast for training -- generally 1-2 Armored Divisions, 2-3 infantry divisions and a couple of division equivalents of smaller units -- the Allied player, or even the AI, should have ample forces to crush any invasion the Japanese player is likely to be able to scrape together.

Also realize the logistical requirements for such endeavors in AE will be vastly different than what we see in WitP-Mk1 or any of its mods.

[khyberbill]

Singapore and the DEI were the corks in the bottle that kept the IJN out of the Indian Ocean until April. El Cid goes into Burma using air-mobile tactics, and that might be able to reach Calcutta in a month, but I doubt it. A land campaign runs out of supply in northern Burma. Besides the defence of India was an application of the principle of economy of force until mid-1944.

There may be a cork, but in two PBEMs I have been invaded in India, once in December, before Singapore or much of DEI had fallen and once in January. That is why I have posed the question.

[Andy Mac]

We have invasion reinforcements arriving in 5 circumstances now.
 
1. Invasion of Japan - 10 'Depot' Divs of recruits/home guard activate this happens whenver Japan is invaded whether 41 or 45
 
2. Invasion of India well we dont want to totally curtail this one so there is a line in India that if the Japanese cross there is a Corps of mixed Indian/British troops that arrive mostly from Iraq/Persia but a few from other sources i.e. the Waziristan Frontier Div is only on map if the line is crossed but the Peshawar and Punjab Divs are both actually on map fulfiling garrison requirements. So a Japanese attack on Ceylon or the Assam will not cause this reaction but go deeper and it will.
 
3. Invasion Australia - same logic 9th Aus Div gets accelerated and a few friends from SA and British Forces going round the Cape in the likely timeframe etc etc appear again its about a Corps and again it wont kick in if Darwin Perth or even Townsville is attacked otherwise its to inflexible but attack the South of Australia and these forces arrive and it bvecomes a race can the Japanese complete the conquest before the allies can ship in the reinforcements....
 
4. Invasion NZ - similar logic Japanese attack NZ (anywhere in the case of NZ) and a couple of Divs including the fearsome 2nd NZ Div under Freyberg arrive at the ME and need to transferred.
 
5. Invasion West Coast as per Joels post
 
 
I really wanted to add the Polish Army of the East. The Greek Bde, the FFL Demi Bde as invasion reinforcements but restrained myself as it was outside of the likely timescale so the forces that do become available are predominanty units that are due to arrive anyway and are accelerated (9th Aus Div, 8th Indian Div etc) or are logical 2nd NZ Div or are in the right vicinity to be credible invasion reinforcements
 
e.g. 51st Highland, 44th Div, a Rhodesian Bde, a South African Armoured Regt, an AA Bde etc etc some of these forces even if they arrive as invasion reinforcements have withdrawal dates to avoid contaminating the timeline to much !!!
 
Andy

[khyberbill]

Thanks Andy Mac. That answers my question. A Waziristan Frontier Division would appear to be only Pathans (when did they become Pusthuns?), which should be enough to repel any invasion.

[NormS3]

mercury's in retrograde. Or so my boss has been saying all week.[&:]

[:D]Real questions, in regards to the reinforcements if West Coast is invaded.

1) is there a withdrawl date?
2) what if the fighting goes past the date(s) (say you were overly aggeressive and stripped the WC before the invasion)
3)air/naval reinforcements as well?
4) is any of this modable?

Thanks again for all of your great work!

[khyberbill]

Thanks Blackhorse. And I still think that Kelly's Heroes is one of the top ten movies of all time.

[Andy Mac]

ORIGINAL: Norm3

mercury's in retrograde. Or so my boss has been saying all week.[&:]

[:D]Real questions, in regards to the reinforcements if West Coast is invaded.

1) is there a withdrawl date?

NO BUT NO NEED AS THEY ARE ALL PERMANTLY RESTRICTED TO WEST COAST SO CANNOT BE USED FOR OTHER STUFF

2) what if the fighting goes past the date(s) (say you were overly aggeressive and stripped the WC before the invasion)

NOT A PROBLEM ON WEST COAST IS A PROBLEM IN INDIA AS UNITS RETURN TO OTHER THEATRES

E.G. ONE OF THE INDIA INVASION REINFORCEMENT FORMATIONS IS 56TH BRITISH DIV WHICH RETURNS TO M/E FOR INVASION OF ITALY AS DOES 51ST HIGHLAND DIV

3)air/naval reinforcements as well?

NO NOT IN RELEASE BUT I THINK THOSE TEAMS HAVE RESERVED SOME SLOTS SO MAYBE IN A PATCH

4) is any of this modable?

TRIGGER ZONES NO
UNITS YES


Thanks again for all of your great work!

[drw61]

Just curious...If Australia or NZ were invaded would the US have released a div or two that were heading to Europe to help them out?  I would think the political pressure would be very high on the US to do this.  
 
It would be a very interesting read to see the British/US plans that were in place for an invasion of Australia, NZ or India.  

[Footslogger]

I like Kelly's Heroes too mister. Is that crazy screaming general suppost to be Patton?

Killroy was here[:D]

[Yamato hugger]

The greatest type of movie ever made = war movies.

The greatest actor ever = Clint Eastwood

So, it goes without saying that Kellys Heros is the greatest movie ever made There are so many quotable lines from that movie.

"50 feet of bridge I can pick up almost anywhere. Schmuck!"

[kmussler]

From what I've read recently, OZ and NZ were the responsibility of the US to help defend. The Brits already had their hands full with Burma/India. This was a decision made by Roosevelt and Churchill together with their staffs when the war was only weeks old. It is part of the reason that the US high priority was defending Noumea, Fiji, and Samoa to preserve the line of communication and supply with OZ and NZ. In the case of invasion, a division or two of Australian infantry serving in N Africa would have returned home, as Andy said. These are besides the 6th and 7th Divisions which returned to OZ soon after the war's start. The 8th Division was lost in Malaya. In addition, the Aussies already had a number of militia divisions,, two cavalry divisions and at least one armoured division already organized and available (as well as other smaller units). These were strictly for home defense, as their laws prohibitted their deployment outside of OZ. IMO the Japanese would have been hard pressed to make an invasion work without substantial land-based air units to assist. And, their supply lines would have been quite extended to boot.
While the US & the Brits maintained their "Europe first" policy, an invasion of OZ or NZ might have opened up more resourses for the US to defeat such an invasion or make a significant counterattack.

Kurt

[Blackhorse]

Some additional answers, specifically for the US West Coast--

ORIGINAL: Norm3
[:D]Real questions, in regards to the reinforcements if West Coast is invaded.
1) is there a withdrawl date?

No.

2) what if the fighting goes past the date(s) (say you were overly aggeressive and stripped the WC before the invasion)

Not possible. One of the changes in AE from stock is that units can be permanently assigned to restricted commands. In addition to invasion reinforcements, there are some 4 US infantry divisions that garrisoned the WC in 41-43 before going to Europe*, another 4 infantry and 3 armored divisions that trained on the West Coast in 42-44, and a slew of smaller units, including 4 Canadian Militia Brigades. None of these units can be sent overseas. Nor can the invasion reinforcements. And these are in *addition* to all of the units that will be piling up on the West Coast in 42-43, waiting for PPs and/or shipping (harder to find in AE than stock) to get them overseas.

3)air/naval reinforcements as well?

As Andy said -- not yet

4) is any of this modable?

Most of it. You could add withdrawal dates to the invasion reinforcements. You can mod which units arrive. You can make it possible to ship them overseas.

* = I included in this count the 7th Infantry division, which in AE will be stuck on the West Coast until April 43 -- it was the test-bed for the Motorized Division concept, and simultaneously guarded the San Francisco Bay area. The motorized division concept was considered a failure as a motorized division required as much shipping as an armored division to get it overseas, and much more supply than a typical infantry division once in theatre. Because of these limitations no theatre commander requested a motorized division. In 1943 the 7th converts back to regular infantry and the Allied player can use PPs to purchase it for deployment in the PTO. (Historically, it spearheaded the US efforts to retake the Aleutians).

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

Thanks Blackhorse. And I still think that Kelly's Heroes is one of the top ten movies of all time.

Ditto.

Donald Sutherland's Sgt Oddball character may well be what inspired me to become a US Army cavalryman/tanker. There were frequent times, when mechanics would come and ask me what was wrong with some balky component of my tank, when I had ocassion to say:

"Hey man, I just ride 'em. I don't know what makes 'em work." [8D]

[Heeward]

Does the allied player receive any additional shipping for the emergency reinforcement units?

[Yamato hugger]

No. They cant move anyway (which was already explained).

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

No. They cant move anyway (which was already explained).

At least one unit mentioned was an Australian reinforcement that arrives in ME and the comment was something like 'it will then be a race to see if the Allied player can ship in the reinforcements before the conquest of Australia.'

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

No. They cant move anyway (which was already explained).

At least one unit mentioned was an Australian reinforcement that arrives in ME and the comment was something like 'it will then be a race to see if the Allied player can ship in the reinforcements before the conquest of Australia.'

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

3)air/naval reinforcements as well?

NO NOT IN RELEASE BUT I THINK THOSE TEAMS HAVE RESERVED SOME SLOTS SO MAYBE IN A PATCH