Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)

[Cribtop]

Good points, but I wonder whether Chungking can be taken here. CF has 45 LCUs there and must have built at least decent forts. My wild dream is that he actually comes hard against the southern pincer and the northern one takes Chungking on the fly, but I doubt he'll make this error. I suppose you could imagine a follow up Op to go for Chungking after Red Dragon, and even leaving the base uncaptured but neutered a la Rader is possible. I have a few qualms about Japan's ability to do that IRL.

I definitely concur that Kweiyang and Kweilin are KEY points on the map. I'm also closely following jrcar's AAR, where a similar offensive had taken Kweiyang.

[PaxMondo]

From a game perspective, I suspect it can.

I'm basing this guess on the fact that Gary's alorithm's tend to go flat at both ends. So 45 div's might not be that beneficial. Remember, I'm talking about the game mechanics, not whether it would be possible. (Of course, how would they pack 48 divs into that city and it environs anyway?)

I think, you walk up with your big stack, hit it hard with ground attack aviation, you will be able to drop the forts down and take it. That many div's he won't be able to recover enough damaged squads everyday.


Just my opinion ...

[Mike Solli]

How many squads do the Chinese get a month? I think I heard 200. Not sure.

[rjopel]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

How many squads do the Chinese get a month? I think I heard 200. Not sure.

Depends on the Scenario. Some only have 200, some have 350. I think it should be 350, that's what scen 1 is. I know the 8 Dec start I'm playing is 200 and it sucks.

[witpqs]

I believe the official GC changed from 200 to 350 or 360 with the large official patch that updated scenarios.

[rjopel]

Not all the official scenarios got updated. Scen 6 8 Dec start did not get updated.

[Cribtop]

June 22 & 23, 1942

Wuchow falls on the 23rd. Just an appetizer, but this allows the main force to move on the more important objectives.

Subs

Shark misses a DMS escorting a convoy near Cam Ranh Bay.

Our scout sub in the Bay of Bengal is not spotted by Allied air patrols. Operation Barracuda is greenlighted and Cribtop Intel estimates that surprise is likely.

4th Fleet

No change.

SE Fleet

CF's B-17s don't return to Horn Island. Our Nick group will rest a day or so and then head for NW Oz to jump the smaller B-17 group attacking Daly Waters.

14th Army

Our forces prepare to depart the central PI to clean up a few occupied bases in the DEI (Celebes remnants and Pamakasan).

16th Army

Sawoe-eilanden invaded on the 22nd and occupied on the 23rd.

25th Army

No change.

15th Army

Indes Fleet slips past enemy subs near Phuket without being spotted or attacked. So far, so good.

China

On the 22nd, a brigade crosses the river into Ningsia and SAs to clear out an enemy corps. We force a retreat with 104:1 odds, casualties 1136(50) vs 37(0).

On the 23rd, Wuchow falls to a DA. Odds are 7:1 against level 2 forts, 4 LCUs retreat toward Kukong, casualties 6603(331) vs 952(1). On to Kweilin!

[Cribtop]

A note on the Chungking discussion. The 45 LCUs present no doubt include HQs, base forces and several shattered "zombie corps" from the various surrenders. So we would guesstimate that only about 2/3rds are combat ready units. Still a tall order, but perhaps not impossible.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: rjopel

Not all the official scenarios got updated. Scen 6 8 Dec start did not get updated.

I remember reading that some were missed.

[ny59giants]

In China, I would.....bomb bases, especially Chungking to destroy supply and any enemy LCU in clear terrain regardless of whether it is in a base or not. CFs supply situation will be the deciding factor here as he probably has the troops to hold you off.

The old OOB has China getting only 220 Rifle Squads per month. If you started with the newer OOB patch, then it is either 300 or 350 per month. The question again is supplies to feed all those mouths.

Logistics....Logistics [;)]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I believe the official GC changed from 200 to 350 or 360 with the large official patch that updated scenarios.

I checked. It's 350 a month. That's my goal - kill >350 squads a month.

[Cribtop]

Well, we got 381 yesterday, so June is good. [:D]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

How many squads do the Chinese get a month? I think I heard 200. Not sure.

It has been raised quite a bit in the betas so should be more in the official patch. but it is never enough. The problem is that you need supply to take replacement and there is never enough supply. I at times have had over 1,500 Chinese squads in my pools but the rate of units taking replacement is pitifully slow. The major Chinese source of troops is destroyed units that come back to Chungking at 1/3 OOB strength-which is usually stronger than they were.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

How many squads do the Chinese get a month? I think I heard 200. Not sure.

It has been raised quite a bit in the betas so should be more in the official patch. but it is never enough. The problem is that you need supply to take replacement and there is never enough supply. I at times have had over 1,500 Chinese squads in my pools but the rate of units taking replacement is pitifully slow. The major Chinese source of troops is destroyed units that come back to Chungking at 1/3 OOB strength-which is usually stronger than they were.

Not sure if this is accurate. The beta's are exe only changes, no data changes. To change the squad rate requires a data change.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

How many squads do the Chinese get a month? I think I heard 200. Not sure.

It has been raised quite a bit in the betas so should be more in the official patch. but it is never enough. The problem is that you need supply to take replacement and there is never enough supply. I at times have had over 1,500 Chinese squads in my pools but the rate of units taking replacement is pitifully slow. The major Chinese source of troops is destroyed units that come back to Chungking at 1/3 OOB strength-which is usually stronger than they were.

Not sure if this is accurate. The beta's are exe only changes, no data changes. To change the squad rate requires a data change.

Dunno but it showed up in my ongoing game well after the last official patch.

And here is one for you. I have two scen 2 games going as the Allies. One in 4/44 and the other 10/42. Same historical start same settings. In the 4/44 game the Chinese squads bumped to 350 per mo at least six months ago (real time) while in the other slower game they remained at 200. I was just about to go on the tech support forum to ask about it but noticed recently that the second game has bumbed to 350 per month as well. This had to happen in the last 10-20 turns. Perhaps the change is date sensitive in the game as well. Both games have been patched up at relatively the same pace.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: crsutton




It has been raised quite a bit in the betas so should be more in the official patch. but it is never enough. The problem is that you need supply to take replacement and there is never enough supply. I at times have had over 1,500 Chinese squads in my pools but the rate of units taking replacement is pitifully slow. The major Chinese source of troops is destroyed units that come back to Chungking at 1/3 OOB strength-which is usually stronger than they were.

Not sure if this is accurate. The beta's are exe only changes, no data changes. To change the squad rate requires a data change.

Dunno but it showed up in my ongoing game well after the last official patch.

And here is one for you. I have two scen 2 games going as the Allies. One in 4/44 and the other 10/42. Same historical start same settings. In the 4/44 game the Chinese squads bumped to 350 per mo at least six months ago (real time) while in the other slower game they remained at 200. I was just about to go on the tech support forum to ask about it but noticed recently that the second game has bumbed to 350 per month as well. This had to happen in the last 10-20 turns. Perhaps the change is date sensitive in the game as well. Both games have been patched up at relatively the same pace.

I do see that a change in TO&E occurs 6/43 ..that last until 1945 ... in my game scenario this change stays at 200 squads ..

[Cribtop]

June 24, 1942

Great info gents - I appreciate how active the thread is as Red Dragon continues.

Had my 5 year old daughter viewed today's replay, she would have deemed it "SOUPER, DOOOPER slow, Dad." Thus, we will report only on the 3 active Operations.

Operation Kraken

The CVE Raiders, AMC scouts and Oilers will RV tomorrow well east of Tokyo for re-fueling. Then we head toward California.

Operation Barracuda

Our subs in the Bay of Bengal are completely undetected. It appears that Cribtop Intel was correct in its guess that CF does not have much nav search in the region. Indes Fleet is even with Rangoon and will move to Point Luck tomorrow. Moon is 89%, so we should go in with a full moon or at most 1 day off.

Operation Red Dragon

Just marching today, but bombing of Kweilin reveals excellent news. The reinforcement LCUs that CF rushed over from Liuchow - are base forces! [X(] Oh my. We may have hit a soft spot in the enemy lines! Our armor is now 1 hex SW of Kweilin (map). We could march on either Kweilin or Liuchow, but will go for Kweilin first. So far this is looking very good.

In the central front, we are going to use a (hopefully) clever ploy to try to fully isolate the partially isolated enemy stack near Changsha. More on that as it develops.

[Cribtop]

Ok, the turn is away. Cribtop Intel's best guess on enemy dispositions is as follows:

Wuchow stack - defeated already; 1 HQ, 2 Corps, 1 Engineer.

Kweilin - 2 base forces confirmed; believe 1 Corps moved in today (both new LCUs came from Liuchow). Japanese armor will arrive in the hex on the 26th.

Liuchow - 2 LCUs, composition unknown. We will bomb and recon tomorrow to determine.

Nanning - 4 LCUs, composition unknown. Assumed to be similar to Wuchow.

For the home gamers, that means we are probably facing 2 defeated KMT combat units, plus 1 at Kweilin, 1 at Liuchow and 2 at Nanning. 6 Chinese infantry units ain't gonna stop us. Cribtop HQ is not getting cocky, but we are feeling good about Red Dragon.

[Cribtop]

A little behind on updates as I had to put up Christmas trees and decorations, go on a family Christmas deal last night and prepare for my hunting trip next weekend.

I'll catch up tomorrow. Also, tomorrow's update will see the Operation Barracuda attack go in, so fingers crossed.

Also, I'm just posting this now so that Michael a/k/a nygiants59 can go ahead and begin the taunting about tonight's disaster of a Cowboys game. I am asking Santa to cancel the rest of December for ever so that the Cowboys can avoid being the hot team that fades in the last month of the regular season AGAIN! [8|][:-]

[Cribtop]

Sorry, readers, but RL has temporarily delayed updates. I'll try to catch up tonight.