Jorge's(A) crusade to the fabled kingdom of PresterJohn(J) DBB-C --- Allied AAR

[JocMeister]

That looks like a recipe for disaster... [X(]

With all the fleet action taking place on the coast he is bound to have loads of Betty/Nells on Naval attack.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

That looks like a recipe for disaster... [X(]

With all the fleet action taking place on the coast he is bound to have loads of Betty/Nells on Naval attack.

But I am 7 hexes from Pt Blair... and DL is zero... where is his nav search?

EDIT: but you are right... too risky... I still want to tempt a carrier action, but I have changed heading to North East...

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
But I am 7 hexes from Pt Blair... and DL is zero... where is his nav search?

EDIT: but you are right... too risky... I still want to tempt a carrier action, but I have changed heading to North East...

Could have rained in this turn. [:)]

[Jorge_Stanbury]

which will also explain the fact Japanese TFs vanished

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Finally got the turn, moving out was the right thing to do, as I saw all the Japanese fleet on Pt Blair.. It would had been a fight under the worst possible circumstances
thanks Jocmeister for the advice

What else? TFs were spotted, so he is probably preparing a LBA party... time to withdraw... at least he is aware I am no longer in fear of his naval power

[Jorge_Stanbury]

News from China; Chungking was attacked for the 1st time. Results were good for the Allies because forts were not reduced

Do you think I can attempt a counter strike? lots of disrupted Japanese troops...
but I suspect the answer is no...


Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 183097 troops, 1725 guns, 387 vehicles, Assault Value = 5565

Defending force 228729 troops, 686 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5243

Japanese adjusted assault: 1109

Allied adjusted defense: 3347

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 6)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
30791 casualties reported
Squads: 251 destroyed, 4140 disabled
Non Combat: 104 destroyed, 407 disabled
Engineers: 103 destroyed, 316 disabled
Guns lost 295 (37 destroyed, 258 disabled)
Vehicles lost 41 (17 destroyed, 24 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
13943 casualties reported
Squads: 228 destroyed, 355 disabled
Non Combat: 215 destroyed, 348 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 94 (18 destroyed, 76 disabled)
Units destroyed 3

Assaulting units:
2nd Ind Engineer Regiment
32nd Division
6th Division
3rd Division
110th Division
70th Division
102nd Infantry Regiment
17th Division
37th Division
34th Division
104th Division
36th Division
69th Division
8th Ind Engineer Regiment
59th Division
41st Division
26th Division
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
21st AA Regiment
1st Army
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
23rd Army
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
12th Army
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
China Expeditionary Army
11th Army
1st Mortar Battalion
21st Mortar Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
17th Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
91st Chinese Corps
86th Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
2nd Prov Chinese Corps
75th Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
62nd Chinese Corps
90th Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
81st Chinese Corps
68th Chinese Corps
51st Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
59th Chinese Corps
67th Chinese Corps
63rd Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
34th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
43rd Chinese Corps
85th Chinese Corps
32nd Chinese Corps
11th Construction Regiment
20th Artillery Regiment
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
1st Chinese Base Force
15th Chinese Corps
31st Group Army
2nd Group Army
18th Artillery Regiment
Central Reserve
7th Artillery Regiment
8th Construction Regiment
10th Group Army
8th New Chinese Corps
4th Group Army
10th Chinese Base Force
41st AA Regiment
7th War Area
3rd War Area
57th AT Gun Regiment
49th AA Regiment
39th Group Army
15th Group Army
Jingcha War Area
34th Group Army
48th Chinese Corps
8th Group Army
37th Group Army
13th Construction Regiment
24th Group Army
32nd Group Army
13th Group Army
1st War Area
39th Chinese Corps
12th Construction Regiment
4th War Area
38th Group Army
China Command
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
1st Artillery Regiment
Lusu War Area
16th Group Army
7th Group Army
8th Chinese Base Force
7th Chinese Base Force
Red Chinese Army
22nd Artillery Regiment
56th AT Gun Regiment
14th Group Army
4th Chinese Base Force
3rd Group Army
83rd Chinese Corps
5th Chinese Base Force
26th Group Army
12th Group Army
23rd Group Army
CAF HQ
33rd Group Army
17th Group Army
10th Construction Regiment
36th Group Army
15th Chinese Base Force

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
Do you think I can attempt a counter strike? lots of disrupted Japanese troops...
but I suspect the answer is no...

Absolutely not. [:)]

Your only friends in China are forts and terrain. Attacking will take away the forts and give him the terrain. And that is without even mentioning the (-) supply....

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Yes, although China is doomed, I am happy he will have to spend lots of supply on defeating it

[Sangeli]

Japan does appear to have lost 4/5ths of its squads to disablement. I think I might have actually ordered a counterattack there because on paper Japan should have had far fewer AV the next turn.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I still have the turn... after a year of fighting, we have both become lazy and rusty

I agree with JocMeister, but because I have really nothing to lose, other than maybe a few more weeks of Chungking ownership. I just set a shock attack
And actually the more Chinese LCUs destroyed the better, because they will then come back at 1/3 strengh in a few weeks

it will be fun to watch regardless of how it ends.

[Lowpe]

Should be very interesting to watch the outcome.

How big are your runways at Ledo?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Ledo is at 3.73 level airfield

I liberated it a month or so ago, I will see if I can send some additional engineer LCUs to speed up its building.
My priority was Chittagong as I was expecting a heavy fighting over Magwe that thanksfully was not needed

[poodlebrain]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

I agree with JocMeister, but because I have really nothing to lose, other than maybe a few more weeks of Chungking ownership. I just set a shock attack

Woo hoo. I was hoping you would, but I didn't feel I had the investment in your AAR to make the recommendation. Good luck.

I'm too lazy to do the math, but what will be the supply cost to the Japanese if you are successful in destroying numerous squads compared to just absorbing multiple attacks? Also, how much time will it buy you as the Japanese will have to withdraw to well supplied bases in order to rebuild any losses they suffer?

[Lowpe]

I would be flying in as much supplies as I could, even diverting heavy bombers to that duty. I would be looking to max Ledo out, asap.

Why? Supplies is what China needs, and supplies sent to Chungking are going to hurt the Japanese. Chungking is fairly hard to stop transports to, and is a huge VP gain for Japan as well as on the tactical side it frees up large amounts of troops.

Of course, if you haven't prepared for it with trained pilots, big airbases, plentiful supply and aviation support, you probably have two months before Chungking can fall depending upon the results of this shock attack.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

The problem is I cannot undo now the cummulative effects of an India invasion early on (thanksfully already taken care of) plus my total inneptitude and lack of interest in the Chinese theater.

We are playing DBB-C with extended map and overstack penalty. I originally thought that the overstack was going to help me in China, instead each Chinese defeat/ withdrawal would invariably meant that more and more troops got inside an overstacked base, with supply consumption going up at alarming rates. I think a good land player that carefully played China could had done a much better job. I didn't, I always hated the few minutes I devoted to China on every turn, and yes it was always minutes, the turn could take me 5 hours, but I still always devoted just a few minuted to China.

So from early 42 until a few months ago most of India was in Japanese hands. So for at least 6 months there was no supply at all coming to China. Ledo was only recently started to get built. Also important to mention that up to recently my air transport focus was on moving supply from Calcutta to Bangladesh.

So I will certainly start "the hump" very soon, most likely once Ledo reaches level 4. Most of the planes are already in Calcutta training, so it can start quickly.

That being said, I am not too confident on turning the tide here


Supply nightmare: Kunming at 3,454 Changsa at 180 Chungking at 420 all others below 100

[Jorge_Stanbury]

more horror...

Chungking is completely surrounded, so no supply will come in or out

unless my shock attack succeeds [:D]

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Supply nightmare: Kunming at 3,454 Changsa at 180 Chungking at 420 all others below 100

With so little supply at Chungking, can you even make an attack there? I would worry that an attack, if ordered, will turn into a half-hearted affair with only a few units actually attacking, you burn up all your supply and accomplish little or nothing against the enemy even if they already have massive disruption.

Here's to hoping against hope that it will be better than that.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Supply is already burnt, I am actually surprised it is at 420, before it was much less, probably just a matter of less mouths to feed after yesterdays' slaughter

Once you are significantly overstacked, trying to save supply is impossible, it will just get burned at horrible rates. That is the case with Chungking. It doesn't help that every destroyed LCU comes to this base.

So launching the attack will not make a huge difference, I am hoping lots of Chinese LCUs will be destroyed so they will come back a little fresher in 3 weeks.
I believe assault will go at 25% efficiency... but 25% of a big mob is still a force to recon. We will see how bad this ends [:'(]

[Lowpe]

Overstack Chungking....very tough in this mod given your position.[:(]

You can at least try to hold on to Kunming, better than nothing.[:)]

I am not sure stacking limits are a good thing or a bad thing in China. Overall, I might lean to good thing if China fully understands them and plans accordingly.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Overstacking penalties add another level of complexity to fighting in China. You need to spread out your troops and even predict the direction of your retreats. otherwise you end in a never ending cycle of supply burn.

in my view, stacking penalties are good overall, I am willing to suffer it in China if it allows me to have it in other more interesting places like India or Australia