Godzilla {J: Andav} vs. Rodan {A: witpqs}

[zuluhour]

Sian pocket map please.....
Are you facing rampaging armor Rgts in the north as well?
Do you still have a defense line in the forests to the south?

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour
Sian pocket map please.....

Yeah, we can't comment anything useful on the land war w/o the map with hexside ownership on

[witpqs]

I think I squeezed all of contested China - expect the Urumchi area - into one screen pic.

The defenders of Sian were retreated to the north out of the city, then (just now) to the northeast. The retreats were toward Kienko, which is sorta totally kinda not in that direction. My speculation is a supply path was traced to Kienko, but through the enemy controlled hex just southwest of where the battle took place this turn. Then the other part of the algorithm kicked in: 'cannot retreat into a hex with enemy units', and they retreated NE instead. I am speculating about how the algorithm operated in this instance but the evidence of the battle+retreat inside Sian and now just outside it is pretty good.

[zuluhour]

A classic cryptic envelopment. What a tangled web up there! Upon further reflection it makes my map of the area
akin to a Swiss defense. Yes, as in cheese. [:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

A classic cryptic envelopment. What a tangled web up there! Upon further reflection it makes my map of the area
akin to a Swiss defense. Yes, as in cheese. [:D]

I tried a Sicilian Defense, he countered with a Morra-Smith, so I've reverted to noisily unwrapping candy bars... (ask Alfred)

[zuluhour]

I believe Alfred could be involved in the Australian "switcheroo" down under at present.

ps. I am interested to know if variable reinforcements will effect Chinese re-spawn.I can't
even remember if it effects LCUs. %$#@ ! more homework.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I believe Alfred could be involved in the Australian "switcheroo" down under at present.

ps. I am interested to know if variable reinforcements will effect Chinese re-spawn.I can't
even remember if it effects LCUs. %$#@ ! more homework.

I don't know if it does or not.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
The defenders of Sian were retreated to the north out of the city, then (just now) to the northeast. The retreats were toward Kienko, which is sorta totally kinda not in that direction. My speculation is a supply path was traced to Kienko, but through the enemy controlled hex just southwest of where the battle took place this turn. Then the other part of the algorithm kicked in: 'cannot retreat into a hex with enemy units', and they retreated NE instead. I am speculating about how the algorithm operated in this instance but the evidence of the battle+retreat inside Sian and now just outside it is pretty good.

NE was the only viable hex for retreat (all others with enemies inside). It is good Japanese play here arranging an open path to some Chinese base to make you retreat NE

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: witpqs
The defenders of Sian were retreated to the north out of the city, then (just now) to the northeast. The retreats were toward Kienko, which is sorta totally kinda not in that direction. My speculation is a supply path was traced to Kienko, but through the enemy controlled hex just southwest of where the battle took place this turn. Then the other part of the algorithm kicked in: 'cannot retreat into a hex with enemy units', and they retreated NE instead. I am speculating about how the algorithm operated in this instance but the evidence of the battle+retreat inside Sian and now just outside it is pretty good.

NE was the only viable hex for retreat (all others with enemies inside). It is good Japanese play here arranging an open path to some Chinese base to make you retreat NE

Yes, I agree on both counts, especially the good play by Walter. I'm just pointing out that the algorithm, if it behaved as I described, is a wee bit goofy. This is an edge case with no real consequences for any games so it is *not* something I want so see anyone pick up as a forum complaint or anything. In fact in the instant case it might help my units to defend better in that terrain and take a few more enemy squads with them. Maybe even 5! [:'(]

[GetAssista]

Umm, please bear with me here but I don't catch the goofiness. It looks completely WAD - retreat along the supply path but not into the hex with enemies. Geographical directions play no role here, only supply path shape is important

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Umm, please bear with me here but I don't catch the goofiness. It looks completely WAD - retreat along the supply path but not into the hex with enemies. Geographical directions play no role here, only supply path shape is important

I agree that as the algorithms work geographical directions play no role. The goofiness is the units retreated away from any base to which they could trace a supply route. Any supply route. Urumchi is so far away there is no supply route there so don't count that.

Now look at the hex they were in and the hex they retreated to. The hex they were in could trace a supply route (or at least at whatever cutoff the retreat code uses) to Kienko. Through enemy contested hexes but with friendly forces all holding the relevant hex sides. All good.

What about the hex they retreated to? No way. No supply route - UNLESS the algorithm uses a *very* high cost cutoff. Because to trace a route to Kienko from the new hex requires going around a bunch of enemy units, some roads some cross-country between roads, cross country through two full mountain hexes, and finally along a road.

The answer to the "UNLESS" query I pose will be answered when the IJN catches up and attacks again. No retreat will mean the algorithm operates in two steps as I first described. A retreat will mean there is some long, long, long 'supply' path being traced to Kienko.

This is of no consequences, I am just curious.

[Lowpe]

This is at its heart a GG game, perhaps there is some rng involved when faced with hopeless situations.[;)]

Perhaps they were holding the map upside down? Run that away!!

[zuluhour]

[:D][:D]

[zuluhour]

that completely reminds me of escape and evasion training in the army. Let me state
first off I was not the one holding the map! nor was I in any way in charge of that
particular gaggle. Lets just say I would have opened the map BEFORE we escaped. [;)]

[witpqs]

"...and it had big, pointy teeth!" [:D]

[zuluhour]

this calls for a photo..........dont laugh!

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

this calls for a photo..........dont laugh!

Tell us!

[zuluhour]

A very young nineteen something zuluhour on an FTX, not the infamous escape and evasion episode but you
get the idea. The dumb&^% with the map could'nt read but he was to big to take it away.[:D] [:D]

[witpqs]

1942 July 06

INVADED
Amphibious TF 99 offshore of Batoe-eilanden
Changsha, Mengtze, Urumchi are invested.

CHANGED OWNERSHIP



Overall
• KB2 is 1 hex E of Darwin: 1x CA, 3x CVE, 2x CVL; 8F, 17B.


West Coast USA, Alaska, Hawaii
• Enemy sub activity near Pearl Harbor, San Francisco.

• All convoys report no contacts.

• Slippery bugger.

Sub attack near San Francisco at 217,71

Japanese Ships
SS I-31

Allied Ships
YP-284

SS I-31 launches 2 torpedoes at YP-284
Escort abandons search for sub

ASW attack near San Francisco at 217,72

Japanese Ships
SS I-31

Allied Ships
AM Chignecto

SS I-31 is located by AM Chignecto
AM Chignecto fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Chignecto fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Chignecto fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Chignecto fails to find sub, continues to search...
AM Chignecto fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

• That single sub spotted 4 hexes from Pearl Harbor does not make me want to load assault transports now. But when?


Pacific
• Enemy sub activity near Sydney Island.

• All convoys report no contacts.


New Zealand, Australia, New Caledonia, New Hebrides, Solomons, Papua New Guinea, New Britain
•Enemy sub activity near Sydney.

• All convoys report no contacts.

• This was KB2 jumping to the other side of Darwin. One sub is re-tasked to there others, already assigned that area, are a few days away.

ASW attack near Darwin at 75,122

Japanese Ships
DD Minegumo
DD Natsugumo
DD Shikinami
DD Hibiki

Allied Ships
SS Saury

SS Saury is sighted by escort
DD Shikinami fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Hibiki fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

• Terrible weather reigned, grounding our B-17's and likely accounting for the presence of only one enemy strike in the skies.

Morning Air attack on 8th Cav Recce Regiment, at 77,126 , near Fenton

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 2

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

• Better for the B-17's; only one more size to go.

Cloncurry expands airfield to size 8

Philippines


DEI, Dutch new Guinea, Borneo, Malaya


China
• The daily beatings continue, all from a combination of aerial and artillery bombardments.


India, Burma, Thailand, Indochina
• Enemy sub activity near Karachi, Colombo.


Japan, Korea, Manchuria, Russia


Complete combat report attached.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Umm, please bear with me here but I don't catch the goofiness. It looks completely WAD - retreat along the supply path but not into the hex with enemies. Geographical directions play no role here, only supply path shape is important

I agree that as the algorithms work geographical directions play no role. The goofiness is the units retreated away from any base to which they could trace a supply route. Any supply route. Urumchi is so far away there is no supply route there so don't count that.

Now look at the hex they were in and the hex they retreated to. The hex they were in could trace a supply route (or at least at whatever cutoff the retreat code uses) to Kienko. Through enemy contested hexes but with friendly forces all holding the relevant hex sides. All good.

What about the hex they retreated to? No way. No supply route - UNLESS the algorithm uses a *very* high cost cutoff. Because to trace a route to Kienko from the new hex requires going around a bunch of enemy units, some roads some cross-country between roads, cross country through two full mountain hexes, and finally along a road.

The answer to the "UNLESS" query I pose will be answered when the IJN catches up and attacks again. No retreat will mean the algorithm operates in two steps as I first described. A retreat will mean there is some long, long, long 'supply' path being traced to Kienko.

This is of no consequences, I am just curious.

The path is rather straightforward, see picture. Supply can go through enemy just fine as long as hexsides are free.

What is more interesting Tienshui base (dot to the north-west of Sian) is not marked with Japanese hexside ownership. Which is strange, cause its color looks Japanese. Was it captured by flippage?