Sarantaporos - tactical exercise

[Fred98]

Am playing: Sarantaporon - Tactical Exercise Brigade Day Attack

A German unit begins at grid X6516 Y5438.

How do I cut off the unit or make it withdraw or otherwise destroy it?

[GoodGuy]

It's not necessary to cut off the unit, as the exercise is about attacking an objective with minimal losses. Also, the objective has to be seized (and held) within a time frame outlined in the scenario briefing. The hill top itself is anything than "tank-friendly" territory, so you might want to avoid a direct approach (red arrow), as intel reports that at least 2 enemy units may reside in a forward defense position, with an infantry gun unit (prolly with clear line of fire along the road) pointing at the main road, most likely. (Yellow "defend"-task symbol)

While this could be false intel reports, I don't risk anything, and decide to perform a flanking move on the left side (pls see green arrows) to get to the rear of the hill top, while the tank regiment on the right side is supposed to perform distracting operations.

The tank Rgt has MK VI tanks only, tanks equipped with machine guns only:

from Wikipedia:

"The armour of the Mark VI series was designed to prevent penetration by .303 inch and smaller rounds. To that end 14 mm plate (to British Official Armour Specification I.T.70) was fitted on most surfaces, although at its thinnest protection was only 4 mm."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Tank_Mk_VI

So these tanks are rather meant for reconnaissance duties than armored attacks.

Anyway, the flanking move will also cut off enemy supply lines (if there are any :p), and will ensure that the enemy can't withdraw to the north.

Let's have a look at the screenshot:
It's 2:51 a.m., so I have to try and reach the move task's end point b4 the first daylight, in order to keep the element of surprise. I won't issue an attack from the river, as I'm scared that the execution would take too long, and I don't want my troops to get caught in the open in the morning..... so I told 'em to proceed sneaking behind the enemy positions. We'll see....

Playing this for the first time btw, hehe.

[GoodGuy]

The 3rd Royal Tank Rgt, which arrived some time ago (1.5 hrs), is equipped with Cruiser MK II A (A10) tanks. These are equipped with 40 mm (2 pounder) guns.

from wiki:

"A number of Mark IIs were part of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) sent to France in the early stages of World War II. Their cross country performance was recorded as poor but they were still used later in North Africa at the defence of Tobruk in 1941 where reliability and suspension performance in the desert conditions was praised. However 60 odd worn out examples were taken to Greece, by the 3rd RTR and although performing well against the German tanks, over 90% were lost due to mechanical breakdowns as apposed to enemy action (mainly tracks)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser_Mk_II

Well, not an impressive piece of hardware, but it might be valuable. I'll keep these as reserve, so I'll move them to a safe spot until I see what's going on on that hill.

Check the green circle, this is the LOS area tool. You can clearly see that the german unit (IF there is one at all, again it's just an intel report yet) can't see the Vickers tanks, they form up in a blind spot, plus they didn't use the main road for the last 2 km, so there are chances that the enemy didn't see 'em.

The AT gun unit will move to the woods slighty outside their LOS, to block possible outbreaks, and to protect my arty units further south. I issued a "rest" order to my arty units, in order to make sure that they are at my disposal if needed.

[GoodGuy]

Another little detail:

A look at the "general" tab in the unit info reveals that the 1st Ranger Bn (King's Royal Rifle Corps) HQ is classed as motorized unit (the first "movement" value on the left), and its subordinated units have plenty of trucks, motorcycles, some Daimler Dingos, and lotsa Bren carriers (the 2nd "movement" value in the column on the right).

They might have a hard time getting up that hill, pretty rough terrain up there. Well, I'll stick to this plan. [:D]

[GoodGuy]

Crap, either the german unit in the woods sneaked forward during the last few hrs, or it's been there from the beginning..... I wonder why my Vickers tanks didn't spot it. Well, shyte happens, so I gotta move in my tanks to clear that area, and I hope my AT unit will take cover/deploy quickly.
I'll just issue a move order to the tanks, since I need 'em to be there ASAP! The tank reserve comes in handy now, though.

[GoodGuy]

It's time to get the arty a job:

Let's see how that german motorcycle unit (if it's one at all, still poor intel yet) will deal with some heavy bombardment from two 25-pounder gun units. A 10 min. bombardment might do it already, IF it's a motorcycle unit that just got there. [:D] [8D]

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Am playing: Sarantaporon - Tactical Exercise Brigade Day Attack

A German unit begins at grid X6516 Y5438.

How do I cut off the unit or make it withdraw or otherwise destroy it?

In general:

1. Each of your units have "range rings" for anti personnel and ant-armor. Get your units in range of the target and the AI will commence the firing. If you have better ranged weapons than your enemy, you have a distinct advantage by staying back a bit.

2. Artillery is different, they have a bombard "range ring". you have to order it to bombard a specific location (center of the target). you then have the option to let the AI continue to automatically choose targets within range.

3. If your Battalion or Brigade has attached mortars and you order the HQ to an attack location, the AI will hold the mortars back a bit, develop an attack plan for the line units and support your attack with the attached mortars by bombarding automatically.

Feel free to "detach" a unit from the HQ to send it around to a cutoff position. Use the LOS tool to find prime overwatch locations for guns to dig in (digging in/entrenching is automatic when a unit is stationary).

There is truly a fine blend of tactical considerations to be made within the operational level of this game. I hope you can get the feel of it.

[GoodGuy]

A few hrs later:

The motorbike coy turned out to be a dug in inf unit with some 230 troops. Well I admit that I forgot my 1st (and golden) rule when it comes to mil sims: Always expect the unexpected! Dunno whether this is a valid english translation or not [:)]

Usually, I'd probe such a main road in a longer scenario, and I'd drive off enemy recon/guard units. Well, this is just a quickie to show how it could be done in general, so ignore the hasty moves, hehe [:D]


Back to the hill ......

The 1st Arm Bde's units are advancing towards the hill top, with only one unit routing so far. I should have detached this unit earlier, a Fd Sqn ..... german (combat) engineers used to have better equipment, like SMGs, several LMGs, even flame throwers, so I thought they would be an asset here.... should've checked their stats/equipment at the beginning.
Anyways, I'll use that unit to secure the nearby bridge once it has recovered, to have a rear guard in case german reinforcements arrive.

Alright, don't wanna bore ya to death, so this is the last screenshot.

Others mentioned that it might be rather like that you just don't like the interface (so it's rather down to your personal taste) or abstractions in the game. Well I don't know. When I first saw HTTR on a friend's machine (he didn't like it and sold it to me later on, in order to get rid of me, since I occupied his spare rig to play HTTR [:D] ) i fell in love with the interface AND with the real-time feature.
Although the gfx could be improved (if there'd be contour lines, or something like that) to give a better impression of what the terrain looks like, the bulk of the order-options offer a wide range of possibilities.

Simo just added some useful hints, well done.

[GoodGuy]

Ok one more... :p

AAR screen:

• Red lines: 5 german units left (281 troops)
• Blue : Enemy offered to surrender at 20:07
• Green: 69 casualties on my side in opposition to 734 casualties on the German side.

Ok I could have done better, but hey it was just a quickie [:D].

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy
....either the german unit in the woods sneaked forward during the last few hrs, or it's been there from the beginning.....

It's been there from the beginning. See my post at the top.

I probed forward and uncovered the unit. There might be more than one there. It (they) must be dealt with before the advance can continue.

I have one armoured battallion and one infantry battallion and one arty unit. It should be enough to do the job. It isn't

Part of the problem is that I cannot read the ground. What is needed is the artwork amended to show the folds in the ground.

[Arjuna]

Joe 98,
 
Why don't you download the "Back to Paper" or "Hi-Vis" map graphics mod: http://cota.matrixgames.com/downloads/
 

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

It (they) must be dealt with before the advance can continue.

No, It's relatively easy to sneak around that front guard unit at night, as you can see on the screenshots.


Anyway.....

Part of the problem is that I cannot read the ground. What is needed is the artwork amended to show the folds in the ground.

You could have said that in your initial posting, hehe so I wouldn't have read your posting as a call for a few strategy hints, thus saving time for creating these damn screenies.

The darker the ground layers, the higher the ground, basically. Try some of the mods (make sure you back up your original Map files).

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy
No, It's relatively easy to sneak around that front guard unit at night, as you can see on the screenshots.

No body in their right mind would leave an enemy unit of unknown strength in their rear.

[captskillet]

Or my mod joe, it shows elevations pretty good also, just go to the official COTA site and you can see examples of all the different 'visability' mods.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

No body in their right mind would leave an enemy unit of unknown strength in their rear.

The mission briefing in telegraphic style: [:D] [;)]

objective STOP take hill w/ minimal casualties by midday STOP secure hill no later than 2100 hrs STOP avoid attritional encounters/fights STOP open the road STOP cigars+wine if successful STOP sign. Gen. Lazy S. Butt

Clear instructions. Ackknowledged.

I dealt with the unit in my "rear", which appeared to be a single forward guard. I kept bypassing the main road (and potential threats) with the main body of my troops, while the 3rd RTR got order to push the enemy guard away from its foxholes. Even better, this same 3rd RTR cut off the unit for several hours, almost surrounded it, and then proceeded to engage along the road and through those light woods, with the enemy troopers on the run.
Hill taken with minimal losses. So what?

Intel showed that the left side/part of the valley (see post #4) was undefended, so there were ZERO threats that could have slowed down the Ranger Bn. The relatively clear terrain in the valley did not allow the enemy to establish covered defense perimeters. The only position that could be used was a small strip of light woods on the left, which appeared to be empty according to intel.
The only "dark horse" here was the fact, that I didn't know whether there'd be enemy reinforcements (coming from the North) or not, since I never played this exercise b4.

If being uber-cautious the enemy might start to pull the strings, although a given situation might misleadingly look as if the initiative still rests with you, since you're staging attack after attack, with dissatisfying outcome most likely, though.

Staging an uber-cautious and direct approach would have exposed my troops to extended periods of fire from mortar positions and from entrenched or even fortified infantry/gun positions. The fast bypassing move at night took away their ability to stage bombardments or to inflict heavy casualties, since I attacked their positions from the rear in early a.m.

My 2 cents.

[Real and Simulated Wars]

Goodguy,
Great screenies and AAR. Bold commander, sir.
 
Julio
 
 

[Arjuna]

Joe 98,
 
I have to agree with GoodGuy here. Given the time frame of your mission, you have to either avoid the enemy blocking position or infiltrate past it and deal with it later. Remember that the enemy's prime role for the blocking force is to delay you, to force you to deploy and mount an attack, against which it can use its mortars to inflict heavy casualties on your forces. Don't dance to the enemy's tune unless you have no alternative. Once bypassed the enemy blocking force is most likely to be recalled and fall back on its main position. So by all means place a cut off unit behind the blocking position and if you are really worried another in front of it, but not directly engaging it. Then no matter which way it moves you will be hitting it out of its entrenchments.

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: captskillet
Or my mod joe,

You're mod seems the best but I cannot open the ZIP file

[Fred98]

Ignoring the goals of the scenario, does anybody have any thoughts on how to destroy that German unit at "point"
 
I am trying to learn the game and an instruction here would be useful.
 
 
 
 

[flintlock]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

thus saving time for creating these damn screenies.

For what it's worth, GoodGuy, although I'm not the OP, I found your strategy hints and wonderful screens quite useful. You can never be certain how many lurkers you're helping! [;)]

Thanks again for the thoughtful posts.