were we trapped?(No.3 Noobs like Italy)

[schury]

let's talk about Italy. it's weak, as we all know, but no one can refuse to an ally, especially during a war. that's the GGWAW logic.
but in WAW:AWD, things change. neutrals send PPs as supply and resource, too! that means you can get extra resources if you are not flooded with supply, the latter can be avoided easily if have a good producing plan. notice attack Italy would cause a mobilization of infantry in italy and 10 WR reduced! what an advantage! i don't think you can have heavier defence while tatal war starts in italy. one thing more important, italy won't surrender once attacked as nertral(i am not so sure about that) the only weak is once attacked, not like Netherlands, it's troops are considered neutral and techs are low(not sure about it as well). though you lost a good way leading to Med, but Greece may help.
this can set you free while attacking Russia. it seems worth it if you think Med is heavily defended and you are not very intrerested in subs' messing WA up via Cario.
still Italy is of its value. then what about Hungary? do Gernmany need it's pop(have to admit sometimes it can repair demaged units, which i can't understand why it can't produce but can repair)?
Romania is a even good choice cause it produces 2pps , but too close to Russia......can you hold it without being scourged?[;)]

[WanderingHead]

Refusing Italy has been tried during the testing days. I don't recall who tried it or how it worked out.

I think that you want Rumania, because ultimately Germany must attack Russia. Rumania is required to make a good thrust and maintain supply lines, and if it sits neutral then it will take no time at all before the resource flow stops when it becomes a Russian satellite.

[christian brown]

Refusing Italy can be highly effective if Germany is going for an early/extra powerful Barbarossa, I faced this several times with different variables (turn 1 capture of E Poland, BS ---> a disaster for Germany.) Ultimately, I (Allies) was defeated by this strategem by a player of equal skill level. Tip of the hat to the thoughtful Schury for recognizing the unique advantages in not accepting this Ally.

[schury]

yes, that's the point, but it depends on whether or not you can take Russia. i believe Russia CANNOT be defeated no matter what you do while facing a good player. is there someway that makes sure of occupying Moscow? if so, it would be worthwile to leave Italy defand itself! if not, without the italian pressure, Germany would be bombed into ruins much earlier.

[Petiloup]

Hi,

Did this once against A511 and as a result Russia was totally occupied by Germany/Japan but my Westwall was pierced in 1942 and Germany ended up lossing badly because I choosed to finish Russia instead of trying to push back the Allies to the Sea.

If you choose not to attack in the Med I think it's a good strategy as it also cancel the "Greece Borders War" event, gives you a steady flow of supply and generate 7 INF in defense then you don't need to send troops to defend Italy in a proper way. The 10 pts readiness lost by the US will delay the production 3 multiplier at least 1 year.

The drawback is that it also make it easy for the British as nothing else to do but defend England/Scotland or prepare D-Day, you can place a convoy in the Med to India which saves on transports and India would be an impossible target for Japan not mentionning that the British navy can be there with 2 carriers from day one of the Pacific War so it's really a Russia first strategy.

[schury]

the 10 pp works after US entering the war!? i remember the manual tells the opposite[&:]
and how can you take whole Russia[&o]i never secceed in doing so. and i suppose that it's impossible...... do you have great ideas how to take Russia while facing the fierce bombing on factories in the backyard? i always left myself in such dilemma[:(]

[dobeln]

"do you have great ideas how to take Russia while facing the fierce bombing on factories in the backyard? i always left myself in such dilemma"

As soon as you feel you have the Russians comfortably on the run, switch most of your focus to fighter + AAA production. Research fighter speed 3 - gives you the fighter flexibility you need. Research fighter techs. Be on the lookout for opportunities to hit RAF/USAF airfields. Repair russian resources (safe from bombing, usually) instead of French ones.

[Petiloup]

ORIGINAL: schury

and how can you take whole Russia[&o]i never secceed in doing so. and i suppose that it's impossible......

Was playing that game with A511 so he can confirm it. I didn't attack any neutrals but Denmark and TLC, didn't activate Italy, didn't attack any Chinese Regions with the Jap but to take out his army once with a lot of ART so not to take the place. As a result the WA did enter the war late.

The Japanese army went to the Urals easily and Germany attack went normally. Only trouble was that the British manage to land in the TLC in 1942 and I would have need to commit a lot of my troops to repell which would have stopped the attack on Russia so I choosed to defend Western Germany instead and keep destroying Russia. At the end it did pays off even when the WA landed in Archangelsk.

Now at that moment the Wallies was too strong to be repelled and he was pounding my factories to bits and pieces. Also the french factories were repaired and building troops asap.

So at the end Germany was destroyed in 1944 even after crushing Russia. Japan did followed up soon after.

The game as it is gives an easy life to mount up an invasion as well to the Axis for invading England or to the Wallies for invading Europe but at the end it does work well enough to be a fun game to play.

[schury]

i don't think invasion of england is easy until you get fighter speed level three, but that time you should fight Russia hard......[:(]

[Petiloup]

ORIGINAL: schury

i don't think invasion of england is easy until you get fighter speed level three, but that time you should fight Russia hard......[:(]

Sorry didn't mean easy in that sense. Easy to plan, not easy to achieve. Here just that if you see an opportunity you can do one anytime. Move your transports even from far away and then get a shot at it.

In reality it takes weeks if not months of preparation before planning an important invasion and after Barbarossa Germany was never in shape to try an invasion of England anymore. In AWD you can even after Barbarossa, just wait for an opportunity. With 4 transports you can even try your luck against Scotland which is far far away from what Germany could do.

I understand the designer did this on purpose to balance the game because of the drawback of playing by regions.

[schury]

i think attack england after Barbarossa initiating is not worth the candle., especially when USA enters the war[:(]

[Petiloup]

ORIGINAL: schury

i think attack england after Barbarossa initiating is not worth the candle., especially when USA enters the war[:(]

Well if ever you can land in England 1 or 2 INF and as such destroyed 4 factories and what's being produced I think it's well worth doing it. The cost of rebuilding the whole infrastructure is a lot more than the cost of what you commit doing it.

Agreed it's an unlikely possibility but that you can still do it can't be ignored.

[dawnlaoder]

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