Not sure exactly which forum this belongs in, but this particular game brings to light a lingering issue with how the AI sometimes handles a pitching staff.
To be fair, one of the White Sox' normal starters is on the DL with a serious injury, and there isn't much to choose from in the minors. Also, everyone in the pen was "brown" or "red" at the time. Still, though, there must be something better the AI could have done in this case.
By the way, I'm running with the most recent update in a season replay (1975) mode.
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"Better to sleep with old hen than pullet" - Redd Foxx
That may be an extreme case, but I just finished a game in which my bullpen got blasted in extra innings. I was managing the game, and looked on helplessly as two normally-reliable relievers gave up 7 runs in the 11th. Needless to say, I lost. Sh*t does happen, often when you least expect it. However, 32-6 IS very extreme. Are you managing or simming? When managing, a bit of damage control can be exercised, but you still wear out a couple of good pitchers in the process.
However, Vuckovich getting rocked for 32 ER is just WRONG. That stuff should never happen with the latest patch (1.70f) installed. What does the Sox' bullpen look like?
I am simming all games not involving the A's. I checked the White Sox pen after the game and they were all either "Worn Out" or "Very Worn Out". One of their starters (Jim Kaat) is on the 60-day DL. This forces the AI to go with a 4th starter with poor ratings. I checked the minors and there is nothing decent there either.
I've mentioned this in other threads and something needs to be done to prevent this sort of thing. If a pitcher (in real life) is good enough to make a major league roster, there's no way he can be that terrible.
About a year ago (maybe a little more), Shaun changed something in the way players were rated when they imported into PS for the first time. A guy with only a few at-bats or a pitcher with only a few innings in their "import year" (real MLB) now stands little chance against the seasoned players. For batters, they are known as "5-point scrubs". Their poor performances don't skew games the same way a "scrub" pitcher does. These pitchers import with STUFF in the 20's or 30's, with very poor control. This is a deadly combination! For associations going more than one year, these same batters and pitchers continue to stink it up as the years go by.
One possible solution is for the AI to recognize ACTUAL at-bats and innings pitched for a particular season when making rosters, lineups, and game decisions. I own a purely text-based sim where this is part of the program itself. The user has the ability to assign percentages for every player based on many areas. The AI then uses these percentages to decide who pitches, bats, pinch-hits, pinch-runs, etc. This process took HOURS upon HOURS to input, though. Because the game itself is not "visually appealing", I never really enjoyed it, and hence never played it enough to even see if these percentages worked the way they were supposed to work.
Most of my other associations, I've gone with "Injuries Off". Until there is a program change to keep things like this from happening, I'll keep injuries out of the equation. There's no way Mr. Vuckovich with his STUFF of 32, VEL of 5, and CONT of 28 would be on the MLB roster if Kaat wasn't injured.
By the way, Vuckovich has made 12 starts, pitched 39 2/3 innings, allowed 85 hits, struck out 18 and walked 77. He also has 19 wild pitches. He does, however, have one complete game[;)]
I'm all ears if anyone has any ideas on how to fix this. I'd like to tinker with the STUFF, VELOCITY, and CONTROL ratings and find some kind of "formula" for normalizing guys like this, but I'm having too much fun right now to stop and devote the time it would take. While I'm thinking about it, though, I'll copy this association's PSA file and set it to the side, so I can come back and tinker with Mr. Vuckovich one day.
Just a quick question for anyone: Didn't Vuckovich have a part in one of the Major League movies or some other baseball flick? I believe he played a big slugger and not a pitcher.
"Better to sleep with old hen than pullet" - Redd Foxx
Trying to get to bed, but I noticed this bit of irony in a simulated game.
I pity the fool who had LaCoss in a fantasy league.
And look who's the beneficiary of all these runs. None other than my old friend Vuckovich (the 1979 version this time!). AND I noticed he drove in 5 runs himself!
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"Better to sleep with old hen than pullet" - Redd Foxx
This one was kind of odd. Most of the really strange things I've seen are due to pitchers with a combination of low STUFF and low CONTROL ratings. Their appearance in too many games can skew an entire association's "realism". In the case of LaCoss, he was a perfectly normal pitcher with perfectly normal ratings.
I will use this opportunity, however, to give my bi-weekly gripe about the situation.
Once upon a time, a change was made to the program to prevent seldom-used batters and pitchers from performing TOO well. Seldom-used batters now all import with a CH of 5. Seldom-used pitchers now import with very low ST and CONT (and often with very low VEL also). A pitcher having these low ratings cannot compete against major league batters with normal ratings.
A batter or pitcher with the skills to make it to the major league level will VERY RARELY be so much worse than other players. If they DO stick out among the crowd, it's most likely not from a physical ability standpoint, but from some sort of mental block. Pitchers such as Steve Blass, Mark Wohlers, and Rick Ankiel come to mind.
Shaun has never replied directly to this issue (or I overlooked his response), so I have to consider the following:
(1) Issue not important enough OR
(2) Shaun is working behind the scenes to normalize this OR
(3) Issue too large for a patch and will be dealt with in PS 2009.
In the meantime, I tinkered around with my Pete Vuckovich from the 1975 season. I changed ratings on him and let him start 5 games against the same 5 teams. I did this several times. I should have done it hundreds of times, but I don't have the time or computer capacity for that. Although my "solution" was far from perfect, I made the following changes to Vuckovich:
I realize that there is MUCH more to normalizing this than simply changing some numbers, but I have applied these changes to my current 1979 replay and will see what happens. Since I'm only in late April, it's too early to tell if these changes were good ones or a waste of time.
"Better to sleep with old hen than pullet" - Redd Foxx
Not to go too much off topic but 304 pitches for Pete's sake!! (Sorry could not resist). No wonder he went into acting.....
Just curious, though, did he suffer an injury after such an effort in his next start?
Nobody leaves this place without singing the blues....
That particular team, the 1975 White Sox, had very few arms available. There were only a couple others in the minors and their ratings were worse than Vuke's. When Kaat went on the DL, they had to dig into the garbage can. Once Kaat came back, Vuke was sent back down.
I've never used the "import early" feature, so occasionally I end up with a team that has only 10 decent arms (or less). The Baltimore teams of the late 60's and early 70's might only have 9 decent arms. I would have to lock one scrub on the bench and let them go with nine pitchers.
Looking again at their roster, they had a total of 16 pitchers, but only four decent starters (Vuke would be the "fifth best one"). When Kaat went down, Vuke was brought up and became their #4 in a 4-man rotation. Back in the minors were four 5-point scrubs (will we ever get rid of this problem?) and Cecil Upshaw. Upshaw, of course, was strictly a reliever.
I believe there's an option in PS to import a player BEFORE their actual MLB debut, but I've never done that. This might be a better work-around than my going into each scrub and adding to their ST, CONT, and VEL. The only drawback to this is that the AI teams would then be bringing players up too early, thus spoiling my replay.
"Better to sleep with old hen than pullet" - Redd Foxx
