Elite Emily torpedo bombers

[Mobeer]

I'm getting a bit annoyed with H8K Emily torpedo bombers. In the space of 7 days just three of them managed the following:


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/29/44

Day Air attack on TF at 66,73

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 14
G4M2 Betty x 9
H8K Emily x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 5 damaged
H8K Emily: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Florence D., Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Admiral Gove, Torpedo hits 2, on fire << Emily's did this, sinks
AK Admiral Senn, Torpedo hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
139 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/31/44

Day Air attack on TF at 68,77

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 10
G4M2 Betty x 3
H8K Emily x 3

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 3 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged
H8K Emily: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Stephen Potter
CL Biloxi, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage << all hits from Emily's, cruiser sinks

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/03/44

Day Air attack on TF at 67,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 4
H8K Emily x 2

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed


Allied Ships
AK Zebra, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage << scuttled


Allied ground losses:
88 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet

[Historiker]

Which mod?
Do do you get your Emilys attacking ships?

[bbbf]

I'd pay to know that trick too!
&nbsp;

[Feinder]

I thought patrols only attacked at night...
&nbsp;
-F-

[FeurerKrieg]

Knavey clone?

[Knavey]

Hehehe.

Feurer...you know what I was just sitting here trying to come up with?!! You guessed it. Don't have one yet though...still researching.

[Knavey]

And no...I looked up the CL Biloxi.&nbsp; She survived the war, so no clone here.

[FeurerKrieg]

Well, then - I'd like to know that trick also! Emily's only attack at night so far as I know.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Well, then - I'd like to know that trick also! Emily's only attack at night so far as I know.

game flaw probably. If not a Knavey clone... [:D] In my game against Swift I had MINE LAYING B-17s bomb my carriers. They showed up in the combat report as laying mines but in the replay they put 500 lb bombs into one of my carriers. When there are several missions flown from the same airfield it can happen that the game goes crazy. Never seen Emilies attacking at day though.

[JeffroK]

I've had similar attacks during daytime, Late war using CHS155 against Mr ai.

Given they'd amass high exp points as patrol planes they make great torp bombers when they go to the dark side..

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I thought patrols only attacked at night...

-F-

have you ever had patrols attacking ships at night?
How?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I thought patrols only attacked at night...

-F-

have you ever had patrols attacking ships at night?
How?

you need a sub in a hex with an enemy TF and your patrol bombers set to night naval attack...

[Historiker]

Is it effective?

[wild_Willie2]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Is it effective?

Let me aswer this question with a counterquestion:

You might know from experience how many torpedo hits you can expect against a certain target type with 27 Betty's doing the attacking during the day.

Imagine 2-3 much bigger and less maneuverable AC doing the attacking at NIGHT and only when rolls have been made against morale and experience values. ALSO Include the fact that you must ALSO have a sub in the target hex..

This is how effective night attacks are against shipping

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Is it effective?

Let me aswer this question with a counterquestion:

You might know from experience how many torpedo hits you can expect against a certain target type with 27 Betty's doing the attacking during the day.

Imagine 2-3 much bigger and less maneuverable AC doing the attacking at NIGHT and only when rolls have been made against morale and experience values. ALSO Include the fact that you must ALSO have a sub in the target hex..

This is how effective night attacks are against shipping

and IMO the torp attacks at night have been broken since some recent patch. I know it was possible to achieve hits in earlier versions though. It isn´t that hard to get high exp Catalinas, Mariners, Mavis, Emilies... to attack at night. In fact, for me it was never as hard as it seems to be for other people. The problem is that there was never a torp hit, there´s not even the splash sound you normally hear from the torp drops. If Mariners attack with bombs there are the splashes though.

It´s the same as with Betties attacking subs. For me it is broken, in thousands of turns I had hundreds of Betties (exp 80+) attacking subs but NEVER hitting a sub. It´s just as if it wouldn´t work that those bombers switch to bombs on nav search. Kates which carry torps normally also hit subs just like wild with 250kg bombs, so there it seems to work. But again, in MY games in thousands of turns a Betty/Nell has never hit a sub with a bomb. And torpedo carrying patrols on night attacks carry nothing during their attack. Bomb carrying patrols carry and drop bombs in MY games. No dedicated tests from my side, just endless hours of playing PBEM.

[wild_Willie2]

Even under 1.806 I HAVE had night torpedo hits happen, but the chance of them hitting a target, especially a warship is REALLY small. I have had a least 2 bombs and 1-2 succesfull torpedo hits on transports at night&nbsp;under 1.806... Bomb hits from the British Night bombers from Singapore and torp hits from Cat's flying out of Manilla...

[wild_Willie2]

Setting up a test to test the sub attack capability of Betty's on naval search is easy.
&nbsp;
Open the tutorial&nbsp;in head to head, send al the US subs to the japanese base and have all betty's there fly 100% naval search. Run the turns continiously and after 30-40 turns (on a decent system with&nbsp;animations/reports turned off this should take about an hour of runtime)

[Mobeer]

Ok, I opened up the game (1.806 stock) from the Japanese AI side.

It appears the enemy unit has been turned into a Kamikaze unit, then had its mission set to Naval. On the unit display there are only two missions listed (Kamikaze or Training) and neither is selected. On the list of units at the base, the mission is listed as Naval.

Anyway, my bombers will take care of this annoyance soon enough.

[Knavey]

I set PBYs to night attack from Manila early in the game when there are S boats galore up there.&nbsp; Had a couple of hits, but nothing war altering.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Mobeer

Ok, I opened up the game (1.806 stock) from the Japanese AI side.

It appears the enemy unit has been turned into a Kamikaze unit, then had its mission set to Naval. On the unit display there are only two missions listed (Kamikaze or Training) and neither is selected. On the list of units at the base, the mission is listed as Naval.

Anyway, my bombers will take care of this annoyance soon enough.

I also saw this when I looked at the japanese side, might be a loophole for the japanese to drive through