Allies Requests?

[TechSgt]

How about the following "Bells-&-Whistles"?

This is for an Allies player only...

I've already seen messages about some items in progress, this is a few I've not heard anyone "talking about", except the weather.

1. The ability to "save" about 10x different raid groups.

For example:
Plot a series of daylight bombing -- w/escorts -- and sweep missions to Berlin. Save labeled Berlin. This would be stored away, so at a later date, I could call it up and the system would load the same mission(s). I can then make a few changes; primary, secondary, or IP, etc. This is to save time plotting the big repeat missions, Berlin, Liepzig, etc.

2. Being able to pick the pathfinder units.

Keep the initial Pathfinders units as is. This is for when the Heavy BG's start becoming "Leads" around Apr '44. As a Commanding General, I would make sure my "most experienced" units are equiped first.

3. Get a forecast of tomorrow's weather.

Say England is showing 56% @ 7200 Ft. Just add clearing or worsening, (+ -). Then give a plus or minus modifier to the weather roll. Italy's weather would be modified depending on Northern/Southern France's current weather.

4. What kind of fighters are at an airfield.

This would only be as valid as the most current recon photo. Maybe, keep the cursor flyover Main Screen display the same, but if I clicked the airfield I would get a more detailed display. Currently, I use a piece of paper, write down the airfield, the unit(s), & a/c type(s).

5. What kind of Flak is at a target.

Again, the most recent recon photo. Fly at 7k over a target w/light flak only, no shots? There isn't any 37mm guns. Same general idea with the heavy flak. Again, I use paper and pencil. This isn't to know the "exact" amounts, but ie, 24x 88, 105 HAA.

6. Slow down the introduction of new aircraft models.

Have the a/c arrive at the current dates, but instead of 12x P-51D per day, start out at 6x for a week or a month, then bump to 9x, then 12x. In the month of April '44 I've outfitted 4x VIII FG with P-51D's. This is much faster than RL.

7. Give warning about the Allied Land attacks for that day.

Maybe a message on the open screen, "Attack in Italy", "D-Day", etc or highlight the units to be attacked.

8. The ability to "Patrol" an area with Day/Night fighters.

Currently, I use 12x single missions, same unit, to place 4x intruders over 3x adjacent airfields, ie Toul or Rheine areas. Do something like...
a. Select "Night Patrol",
b. Drag a red rectangle around an area,
c. Select Unit, Altitude, & Time
d. Computer spaces then out.

Same thing could be done for daytime fighter patrols. Think of what RL did when the jets began to arrive on the scene.

9. Don't close off loophole of being able to have British escorts for American bombers.

10. Display what time the Sun will Rise and Set for today.

11. What about Cinematic History Blurbs?

On 6 June '44, at the start of the turn, there would be something about D-Day. 17 Apr 43 could have something on Sweinfurt/Regensburg and Peenumunde. Intro to Big Week. The "ether" war. Nothing wrong with a little history.

12. A Lockable Display

While in the Axis Reaction phase, be able to "lock" the display. Click a button or use a hot key. Continue to display messages, just don't center the display on the incident.

13. I always thought it would be nice to have a "Master Bomber".

Would it be worth it? What does it add in game terms? I have no idea.
But, what if I could hear him talk? [:D]


PS. Already saw the "B Flt" displays. Thank you, very much! [&o]

TSgt

[Texeiro]

Another one...
Add the efect of slow down the radar´s repair rate by bombing some factories of electronics components, just the same of the efect of bombing AFACS in aircraft production

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

How about the following "Bells-&-Whistles"?

This is for an Allies player only...

I know I should know better, but...

I've already seen messages about some items in progress, this is a few I've not heard anyone "talking about", except the weather.

1. The ability to "save" about 10x different raid groups.

For example:
Plot a series of daylight bombing -- w/escorts -- and sweep missions to Berlin. Save labeled Berlin. This would be stored away, so at a later date, I could call it up and the system would load the same mission(s). I can then make a few changes; primary, secondary, or IP, etc. This is to save time plotting the big repeat missions, Berlin, Liepzig, etc.

been a wish list item for ages, not sure if it will get off the list or not


2. Being able to pick the pathfinder units.

Keep the initial Pathfinders units as is. This is for when the Heavy BG's start becoming "Leads" around Apr '44. As a Commanding General, I would make sure my "most experienced" units are equiped first.

not sure I follow, Radars and such, will be added as bulit, set up by code, Harley did a lot of work on this already


3. Get a forecast of tomorrow's weather.

Say England is showing 56% @ 7200 Ft. Just add clearing or worsening, (+ -). Then give a plus or minus modifier to the weather roll. Italy's weather would be modified depending on Northern/Southern France's current weather.

been a major complaint of mine also for ages, not sure what could be done, or more likely, how much it would take to get something done, that would work and make sense

4. What kind of fighters are at an airfield.

This would only be as valid as the most current recon photo. Maybe, keep the cursor flyover Main Screen display the same, but if I clicked the airfield I would get a more detailed display. Currently, I use a piece of paper, write down the airfield, the unit(s), & a/c type(s).

still part of FOW issues, if, we had recon, bombers, transports and what not also sitting on the fields, I would be inclined to agree with you, but over all, if you know there are planes on this field or that, you know they are some kind of fighters

5. What kind of Flak is at a target.

Again, the most recent recon photo. Fly at 7k over a target w/light flak only, no shots? There isn't any 37mm guns. Same general idea with the heavy flak. Again, I use paper and pencil. This isn't to know the "exact" amounts, but ie, 24x 88, 105 HAA.

not so sure here, as in RL, they never really knew what was there as it was, they had a idea, but not totally, and in RL, it was based on the Flak at the area, so saying there are 15 Batteries of 88 around Bremen, is not the same as how the game is set up, where each target around Bremen can have Flak assigned to it, so part of the issue is how the game handles it, and how the RW would of done it


6. Slow down the introduction of new aircraft models.

Have the a/c arrive at the current dates, but instead of 12x P-51D per day, start out at 6x for a week or a month, then bump to 9x, then 12x. In the month of April '44 I've outfitted 4x VIII FG with P-51D's. This is much faster than RL.

trouble is, the game basicly, upgrades the unit, not the plane, so in RL, a P-47 unit would have 6-10 D-25s and 40 D-21s and 40 D-15s on hand and all of them would be flying, and as one is lost or damaged, a new one would be coming in to replace it, in game, you either have one or the other, most of the production rates are set up to replace losses and upgrade units, I can only have a start and a stop date, don't have step up/ramp up


7. Give warning about the Allied Land attacks for that day.

Maybe a message on the open screen, "Attack in Italy", "D-Day", etc or highlight the units to be attacked.

I am not even sure when the game decides to attack, or not attack, but over all, it would hurt the game in the long run

8. The ability to "Patrol" an area with Day/Night fighters.

Currently, I use 12x single missions, same unit, to place 4x intruders over 3x adjacent airfields, ie Toul or Rheine areas. Do something like...
a. Select "Night Patrol",
b. Drag a red rectangle around an area,
c. Select Unit, Altitude, & Time
d. Computer spaces then out.

Same thing could be done for daytime fighter patrols. Think of what RL did when the jets began to arrive on the scene.

you can patrol in the day time, you can pick a target point and then a patrol point, that is about as far as we were able to do it, your way, opens up a lot of Flak attacks that the player has no control over


9. Don't close off loophole of being able to have British escorts for American bombers.

pain in the butt, but the loophole is still there ?

10. Display what time the Sun will Rise and Set for today.

would be nice, not sure we got the room, but that is something to keep on the list

11. What about Cinematic History Blurbs?

On 6 June '44, at the start of the turn, there would be something about D-Day. 17 Apr 43 could have something on Sweinfurt/Regensburg and Peenumunde. Intro to Big Week. The "ether" war. Nothing wrong with a little history.

I would like to have some pop up, explaining or offering things, , talked about, not sure if doable yet

12. A Lockable Display

While in the Axis Reaction phase, be able to "lock" the display. Click a button or use a hot key. Continue to display messages, just don't center the display on the incident.

13. I always thought it would be nice to have a "Master Bomber".

Would it be worth it? What does it add in game terms? I have no idea.
But, what if I could hear him talk? [:D]


PS. Already saw the "B Flt" displays. Thank you, very much! [&o]

TSgt

Another one...
Add the efect of slow down the radar´s repair rate by bombing some factories of electronics components, just the same of the efect of bombing AFACS in aircraft production

I have talked to Harley about giving me more control over Devices (the radar would be a device to the game) and to let me set up sites to build the devices and then the game to use the device as needed, so, there is some talk on this path, hassle here though, when are you going to be able to hit the Radar Factories, to make a shortish in the stockpile, but current idea is already used some what with Subs and V-weapons, so may be workable, but down the road

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

How about the following "Bells-&-Whistles"?

This is for an Allies player only...

I know I should know better, but...

Brave man!!! [:D]


6. Slow down the introduction of new aircraft models.

Have the a/c arrive at the current dates, but instead of 12x P-51D per day, start out at 6x for a week or a month, then bump to 9x, then 12x. In the month of April '44 I've outfitted 4x VIII FG with P-51D's. This is much faster than RL.

trouble is, the game basicly, upgrades the unit, not the plane, so in RL, a P-47 unit would have 6-10 D-25s and 40 D-21s and 40 D-15s on hand and all of them would be flying, and as one is lost or damaged, a new one would be coming in to replace it, in game, you either have one or the other, most of the production rates are set up to replace losses and upgrade units, I can only have a start and a stop date, don't have step up/ramp up

TSgt

This isn't about partial unit replacements. This just slows the growth of the BtR Allies a/c pool.

In the TOH manual, the Allies have two a/c replacement rates, '43 & '44, pages 87 & 88. What I'm talking about is expanding these tables. The maximum would be a replacement table for each month, but that would be extreme.

For example, the P-51D would begin arriving in Apr '44 with 6x a/c per day. In May '44 that number would change to 9x, then in Jun '44 it would reach 12x in Jan '45 it would reach 15x.

On the flip side, the P-51B is currently being produced from Jan '44 to the end of the war. It is never phased out. This would allow simulation of this model being retired. ie, May '44 reduce to 4x aircraft, Jun '44 zero.

I read where an expanded aircraft list is being implimented. Figured you might want to add a "life-cycle", also.


Thanks for the quick reply!
TSgt

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

ORIGINAL: TechSgt


8. The ability to "Patrol" an area with Day/Night fighters.

Currently, I use 12x single missions, same unit, to place 4x intruders over 3x adjacent airfields, ie Toul or Rheine areas. Do something like...
a. Select "Night Patrol",
b. Drag a red rectangle around an area,
c. Select Unit, Altitude, & Time
d. Computer spaces then out.

Same thing could be done for daytime fighter patrols. Think of what RL did when the jets began to arrive on the scene.

you can patrol in the day time, you can pick a target point and then a patrol point, that is about as far as we were able to do it, your way, opens up a lot of Flak attacks that the player has no control over

TSgt

This thread was meant for "Allies in TOH", sorry.

I was looking for a way to have Allied day fighters to spot patrol an area over Germany -- like a jet airfield. Currently, day fighters can only sweep an area. In other words, be able to do the same as the night fighters do.

But, the more I think of this ... with the Dover Dash fixed.
Maybe it is already in the game.

TSgt

[Hard Sarge]

Well, I was talking about the Allies, in my game, they can patrol during the day

and also, the P-51b does not build though out the whole war, it stops

all plane models that upgrade, stop building

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Well, I was talking about the Allies, in my game, they can patrol during the day

and also, the P-51b does not build though out the whole war, it stops

all plane models that upgrade, stop building

[&o]

Oh yeah! Well, I've got a couple more...

These are very trivial.

1) When reviewing a plotted night intruder mission, the TOT does not change; except when using the +1 minute button. (Version 1.04)

2) Action Reports: It only displays the "final" results of all missions to the same target.
For example, do a morning recon, bomb at noon, then recon in afternoon. All three missions will display the results of the final recon mission.

3) Invasion Days: Hard code the weather! The game will not delay the invasion(s) -- as far as I know -- and nothing worse than a 90+ % @ 200 ft on 6 Jun '44.
I know, there is a "gamey" way around this!

Question?
In another thread, you mentioned a game stopping bug. What is it? Anything we can look out for that might help?

Happy New Year!
TSgt

[TechSgt]

Adding another one...

4) Have the Action Report in the Debrief phase report the mission results as "at the time" of the mission. I've found that a morning recon will display the same results as a later bombing mission, and a follow on recon mission.

In my first campaign I used this type of raid grouping, in 1943, to learn the abilities of various a/c when attacking specific targets.

Adding yet another one...

5) Be able to pick the "form-up" base. It must be a staffed AF.
5a) Be able to pick the "return" base AND not shuttle.

Both of these imply without dragging around the inbound waypoint. Unfortunately, this looks like it would require changing the mission planning display, and I'm wondering if this is in the code for shuttles. So maybe it can go on a looooong list.

FYI: dragging around the inbound waypoint does not update the form up base "type out".

Darn, that one is picky!

That's one rivet, that's two rivets...

[TechSgt]

HS;

Since this thread is becoming a "minor glitch" list...

I found in TOH, May '44, 50th/IX's Group display shows 1x kill, but looking at the pilot's display I have two pilots with 1 kill each.
These are not "named" pilots.

Unless WIA's can rotate back into other groups.

Just another little tidbit for the list.

TS

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

Adding another one...

4) Have the Action Report in the Debrief phase report the mission results as "at the time" of the mission. I've found that a morning recon will display the same results as a later bombing mission, and a follow on recon mission.

In my first campaign I used this type of raid grouping, in 1943, to learn the abilities of various a/c when attacking specific targets.

Adding yet another one...

5) Be able to pick the "form-up" base. It must be a staffed AF.
5a) Be able to pick the "return" base AND not shuttle.

Both of these imply without dragging around the inbound waypoint. Unfortunately, this looks like it would require changing the mission planning display, and I'm wondering if this is in the code for shuttles. So maybe it can go on a looooong list.

FYI: dragging around the inbound waypoint does not update the form up base "type out".

Darn, that one is picky!

That's one rivet, that's two rivets...

sorry, missed or skipped this one

okay, sorry, not sure I understand the dragging part, are you saying it don't change to a new base for form up, or are you saying it does, but the screen still says it the same base ?

from what I know of the code, the form up base is going to be the same as the return base, that not going to be changable, which also may of been part of the issue with the stuttles ?

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

HS;

Since this thread is becoming a "minor glitch" list...

I found in TOH, May '44, 50th/IX's Group display shows 1x kill, but looking at the pilot's display I have two pilots with 1 kill each.
These are not "named" pilots.

Unless WIA's can rotate back into other groups.

Just another little tidbit for the list.

TS

not sure on that one, have seen it the other way around, but never with the unit page being less, could of been a damaged plane crashing, it counts as a kill, but if it was late, it may not of counted for the unit, but the pilot still got it ? not sure

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

Adding another one...

4) Have the Action Report in the Debrief phase report the mission results as "at the time" of the mission. I've found that a morning recon will display the same results as a later bombing mission, and a follow on recon mission.

In my first campaign I used this type of raid grouping, in 1943, to learn the abilities of various a/c when attacking specific targets.

Adding yet another one...

5) Be able to pick the "form-up" base. It must be a staffed AF.
5a) Be able to pick the "return" base AND not shuttle.

Both of these imply without dragging around the inbound waypoint. Unfortunately, this looks like it would require changing the mission planning display, and I'm wondering if this is in the code for shuttles. So maybe it can go on a looooong list.

FYI: dragging around the inbound waypoint does not update the form up base "type out".

Darn, that one is picky!

That's one rivet, that's two rivets...

sorry, missed or skipped this one

okay, sorry, not sure I understand the dragging part, are you saying it don't change to a new base for form up, or are you saying it does, but the screen still says it the same base ?

from what I know of the code, the form up base is going to be the same as the return base, that not going to be changable, which also may of been part of the issue with the stuttles ?

1) The base does change, but the screen "says" the original.

2) The part about the shuttles is what I expected.

Thanks for the "quick" reply [:D]

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

HS;

Since this thread is becoming a "minor glitch" list...

I found in TOH, May '44, 50th/IX's Group display shows 1x kill, but looking at the pilot's display I have two pilots with 1 kill each.
These are not "named" pilots.

Unless WIA's can rotate back into other groups.

Just another little tidbit for the list.

TS

not sure on that one, have seen it the other way around, but never with the unit page being less, could of been a damaged plane crashing, it counts as a kill, but if it was late, it may not of counted for the unit, but the pilot still got it ? not sure

I've seen it the other way alot -- not a problem.
Just throwing stuff at the fan! Maybe it will help.

TS

[Hard Sarge]

I've seen it the other way alot -- not a problem.
Just throwing stuff at the fan! Maybe it will help.

TS

odd, I not seen the unit page have fewer kills then the pilot page (wounded/lossed and what not will normally keep the pilot page with less then the Unit page, not saying it can't happen, just I not "seen" or noticed it)

I seem to remember something about unit commanders not being seen by the game as pilots, we have revamped the whole leader set up, so I may not see things the same any more

the only thing I can really think of is a shuttle/det, the det part can have pilots with kills while the so called det unit would be at zero, until it got new kills

and/or, a det unit that recombines with it's parent, could have more pilot kills then unit kills

Dets are really, really bad

other then that, I am not sure

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge



I've seen it the other way alot -- not a problem.
Just throwing stuff at the fan! Maybe it will help.

TS

odd, I not seen the unit page have fewer kills then the pilot page (wounded/lossed and what not will normally keep the pilot page with less then the Unit page, not saying it can't happen, just I not "seen" or noticed it)

I seem to remember something about unit commanders not being seen by the game as pilots, we have revamped the whole leader set up, so I may not see things the same any more

the only thing I can really think of is a shuttle/det, the det part can have pilots with kills while the so called det unit would be at zero, until it got new kills

and/or, a det unit that recombines with it's parent, could have more pilot kills then unit kills

Dets are really, really bad

other then that, I am not sure

HS;

I did some further checking and found that it is, in fact, a shuttle/det problem that I had earlier in the game. I found the commander of a B-25/XII AF unit is now with the IX AF, flying fighters. So let's forget this line!

This is your game... [:D]

This is your game on Detachments...

TS

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

ORIGINAL: TechSgt

Adding another one...

4) Have the Action Report in the Debrief phase report the mission results as "at the time" of the mission. I've found that a morning recon will display the same results as a later bombing mission, and a follow on recon mission.

In my first campaign I used this type of raid grouping, in 1943, to learn the abilities of various a/c when attacking specific targets.

Adding yet another one...

5) Be able to pick the "form-up" base. It must be a staffed AF.
5a) Be able to pick the "return" base AND not shuttle.

Both of these imply without dragging around the inbound waypoint. Unfortunately, this looks like it would require changing the mission planning display, and I'm wondering if this is in the code for shuttles. So maybe it can go on a looooong list.

FYI: dragging around the inbound waypoint does not update the form up base "type out".

Darn, that one is picky!

That's one rivet, that's two rivets...

sorry, missed or skipped this one

okay, sorry, not sure I understand the dragging part, are you saying it don't change to a new base for form up, or are you saying it does, but the screen still says it the same base ?

from what I know of the code, the form up base is going to be the same as the return base, that not going to be changable, which also may of been part of the issue with the stuttles ?

After thinking about this...

With the additional waypoints, I can place the last returning waypoint on the English coast.
This will allow a unit to leave northern England, then return over southern England!

This game is just getting better and better. I can't wait!

TS

[tblersch]

While we're adding wishes...
 
I still want to enter altitudes by keystroke.  Too many mouse clicks.
 
Yeah, I know...not gonna happen.  Won't stop me from wanting it. 

[Brutus]

ORIGINAL: tblersch
...

I still want to enter altitudes by keystroke. Too many mouse clicks.

That's the biggest flaw in all Grigsby games I've seen so far... Often great games I really love to play, but with terrible user interface. Half of the time you spend goes to bad controls. BTR ist a perfect example for this. The altitude setting, the redirection of patrol aircraft or the message settings - it could not be designed worse.


It seems there are two types of people designing wargames:

- The war freak who knows all about the tanks, aircraft, soldiers etc. and who can design perfect scenarios and OOBs.
- The programmer. A tech freak able to code complex simulations.

And one type (of course the more unimportant, compared to the first two) is always missing:

- The guy who knows nothing about history, and has no idea about how computers work, but who knows something about design / human interfaces. These guys simply do not exist in the wargame industry [:(]


To be honest, not even Microsoft would employ the interface designers of old BTR. Thinking about Apple, they could not even survive as trainees.


I really hope the new version will be somewhat improved in that regard. For me, that's more important than 10 historical pilots more, who are after four game weeks dead anyway.

[harley]

Brutus - I have tried my best with the UI to make it consistent and easy to use. There are still some buttons in odd places, and I've been haraunging the testers to give me ideas for easier access. We will probably still have a few odd ones for a while yet.

One change I did for the better was the unit page - now you can change the unit type, and move the unit from the unit detail page... The guys want me to put next/last buttons on, which I will do when time permits...

[Morgan60]

While on the subject of Allies requests ... what do you all think about things for the Luftwaffe? I have never played BTR but did have two versions of BoB. I found that the RAF player had it way to easy ... even when playing against a human it is easy to win .. the poor old LW doesn't really stand a chance.

In my (faulty I'm sure) opinion the English can repair damage much much faster than seems reasonable. I know that the RAF did on occaiion perform miracles, like getting Biggin Hill's Sector Control Room operational after in was bombed.
But bombing factories vs. repair rates seems to be completely inadequate.

And I agree, the best thing you can say about the UI is that it is clunky any improvements in that area would be fantastic.