Wheather Dice?

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CRAZY_HORSE007
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Belgium - Zaventem

Wheather Dice?

Post by CRAZY_HORSE007 »

Hi,

Can any one tell me, what are the dice for the wheather check. I just have a snown turn on the last turn of september as soviet (sorry czerpak :D ), must I play at the lotery this week or is it quiet normal.

Second question, is the previous turn wheather influence the next turn wheather. I mean if I have snow on the previous turn, have I more chance to get it on next turn.

Thanks in advance at Ricky or Ed or ....

Marc
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

SUN TZU
RickyB
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Post by RickyB »

I am not sure about the weather overall. Snow at the end of September, 1941 is rare, I know that much. However, playing games with slightly different starting dates appears to cause major changes in the liklihood of bad weather, or when it comes. You can count on blizzards in Dec 41, and generally mud in October 41, but otherwise I don't know what the odds are, and just play it as it comes.

Sorry I don't know more than that.
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi


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Guardsman
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by Guardsman »

I brought this up before but I am fairly convinced that weather has something to do with how successfull the Germans are in '41. It seems that games where I am not doing well as the Germans winter '41 is mild, but whenever I am doing really well the same winter is much more harsh. In a game recently the blizzards started the first week of Dec and ended the last week of March with only 1 turn without a blizzard. Needless to say the the Germans were in very bad shape come the spring.

Co-incidentally in that particular game I was two hexes away from Moscow by mid-October.
Guardsman
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by Guardsman »

Just wanted to post a follow up to my previous point. I started another game as the Germans in '41. This time I got within striking distance of Moscow in early October while causing massive casualties to the Soviets. In fact there are very few Soviet units in the central part of the map (around Moscow). The Soviet air force is totally ineffective.

Anyway, believe it or not it started snowing the second week of October and it alternated between snow and rain until the first week of December when the blizzard started. It is now the end of December and I've had four consecutive turns of blizzard.

Luckily for me the Soviets are too weak to really do anything so I am now sitting out the winter in comfortable entrenchments.

This weather thing is really suspicious. I think I will try a game and deliberately botch the offensive just to see how harsh the winter is.

Anyone else notice this?
Die Kriegerin
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:00 am
Location: Harligen, Texas

Post by Die Kriegerin »

I played Dave Wolf and never saw rain. October hit, 4 turns of snow, then 14 straight blizzard turns, 2 snow turns, and 3 more blizzard. Isn't this game great. I started a counterattack only to be caught in another blizzard. I've never seen this before.... The best thing to do is plan your campaign to stop the last turn of September.

Jon
:cool:
PMCN
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Germany

Post by PMCN »

I posted about this a while back. Svar, I believe, has done tests and says that the weather is random (baring the fact there will be blizzards at the historical period).

But regardless I would swear there is a blasted sub routine in there that adjusts the weather depending on the russian strength. Playing the germans the worst I ever got hit with was 16 straight weeks of blizzard but playing the russians I usually only got a few weeks of blizzard (even when playing against a human and trust me I was praying for that blizzard). It is realy hard to say since statistically few people ever play enough games to make a valid sample.

The only people who can say with any certainty are Ed, or RickyB since they can ask Arnaud directly.

Sigh...I am still waiting for my computer to get out of the shop so I can give the newest version a try.
Ed Cogburn
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Greeneville, Tennessee - GO VOLS!
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Post by Ed Cogburn »

Originally posted by Paul McNeely
But regardless I would swear there is a blasted sub routine in there that adjusts the weather depending on the russian strength.

This issue has come up before and someone did a statistical analysis and found no cheating. Below is the written result of that test. If you want the .xls that comes with this, ask me.


------------------------------------
The data is in on 5 sets of 10 runs each with slightly different
starting conditions. All tests were run from just before 11/2/41
through 4/5/42 with balance set to even. The first test set was with no
combat playing human versus human at a test location approximately
historical. Test 2 was with no combat playing human versus human at the
6/22/41 starting position. Test 3 was a repeat of test 1 playing the
Soviet versus computer so computer directed combat started when the test
began. Test 4 was from a saved game where I player the Germans versus
the computer set to max help for the Soviets so there had been heavy
combat and the location was near historical. For test 4 the Soviets
were playing against the computer. Test 5 was a repeat of test 4 with
the Germans playing against the computer.

The good news is, it was statistically insignificant what the starting
conditions were, the results were remarkably consistent. The average
number of blizzard turns for the 50 tests was 11.66 turns while the
maximum was 15 turns and the minimum was 8. Interestingly enough those occurred in the same test set (test 4). The maximum consecutive string of blizzard turns was 13 and the minimum consecutive string of blizzard
turns was 3. Again those occurred in the same test set (test 5). Test
sets 4 and 5 were from the same starting conditions the only difference
being the Soviet versus the computer (test 4) or the German versus the
computer (test 5). These two test sets also gave the greatest average
number of blizzard turns (12.1 test 4) and the least average number of
blizzard turns (11.4 test 5). If there is a bias, the game favors the
human player over the computer with respect to the blizzard weather of
the winter of 41/42. I don't think that is the case; it's just a
statistical anomaly.

All the data points generated the probability of any given weather by
month. The first two weeks of November have the probability of rain 46% of the time and snow 54% of the time. The last three weeks of November have the probability of rain 4% of the time, snow 81% of the time and blizzard 15% of the time. December has the probability of rain 6.5% of the time and blizzard 93.5% of the time. January has the probability of rain 7.5% of the time, snow 6.5% of the time and blizzard 86% of the
time. February has the probability of rain 3% of the time, snow 11% of
the time and blizzard 86% of the time. The first three weeks of March
have the probability of rain 3% of the time, snow 78% of the time and
blizzard 19% of the time. The last two weeks of March have the
probability of rain 60% of the time and snow 40% of the time. Finally
the first week of April has the probability of rain 90% of the time and
clear 10% of the time. The likelihood of having blizzard weather for
all 16 turns in which it is possible is extremely unlikely. In test set
5 the two biggest surprises for the German player occurred when once the
blizzard started in 11/23/41 and lasted unabated until 1/8/42 for a brief respite. The other surprise was another time when the blizzard
started in 12/7/41 and went through 3/15/42 with only one snow turn in
the middle.

I didn't run any tests for weather as PBEM games but would be surprised
if it is any different. Also, I doubt that the game program uses probabilities any more accurate that 5% so those numbers in the previous paragraph can be rounded to the nearest 5%.
------------------------------------
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