HR Question: AB's Extended Map

[Q-Ball]

John 3rd and I are playing a 2x2 vs. FOW and Wolfpack, and a question has come up around a HR for the sea lanes between Aden and Australia.

Awhile back, we had sent CV's west of Java to pick off convoys moving between India and Australia. We were asked for and implemented a HR preventing that. I though that was fair to stop any IJN ships other than non-seaplane subs from going on the map edge; in return, Allied ships would stick to rows 1 & 2, simulating a long run through the southern Indian Ocean. Fair enough, as the Allies can't do much about the Japs out there, and the map edge is an artificial barrier.

I understood the rule though would allow us to close that route from land bases, like Exmouth or Addu Atoll. It's come up because we are invading Addu Atoll (we let our opponents know, as we had to move within those first two rows).

I think (and I may be corrected by FOW), that they are asking for continued free passage from India to Australia. My first reaction was I didn't think that was fair, since the Allies CAN do many things to prevent an occupation of Addu Atoll. But I'm open, so we wanted to see what the consensus was out among the veteran players.

What kind of house rules do you guys have around the map edges and sea lanes?

[ny59giants]

What kind of house rules do you guys have around the map edges and sea lanes?

Use RHS 6 or 7 maps.

[Q-Ball]

.....Or we could play AE!

But until then.....what do you think?

[2ndACR]

IMO, the sea lanes on the extended map should be free passage for allies. Want to shut it down....take Perth.
 
I feel Japan should only be allowed to base subs there. Way too easy to completely cut off Aus........when in reality, there is way too much ocean for that to happen.
 
Same for the sea lanes going to Capetown etc......no air strikes allowed and only subs allowed into these areas.

[John 3rd]

The problem is with this map there is only the Golf of Aden shipping lane.  The other lanes you mention don't exist with this map.

[Mistmatz]

Not sure if I understood the problem correctly...

Do you want to take Addu to permanently close the shipping lane from there? Bad idea IMHO.

If you close the shipping lane for a couple of turns during the invasion because of the presence of carrier based ac thats something I'd be willing to discuss as allies.

Maybe there is an option for a free passage through the indian ocean for that period of time, but probably it's too difficult without giving too much intelligence away.

[ny59giants]

I think the map edge rows and columns on the west and south should be off limits to all Japanese ships and aircraft as a HR (subs allowed). IRL, it would be near impossible to close off Australia.

A possible solution is to decide if it is plausible to have shipping lanes between Aden and Australia and also from Panama to Australia. Then PM Andrew, El Cid, or Nemo about modifying the pwhex files to incorporate them (furnish them the specifics). There may be other players that could do this. It can be changed while the game is in progress.

[USSAmerica]

In my CHS game, we don't have any HR to cover the "shipping lanes" from Aden to India or leading to and from Panama.  I asked my opponent if he considered those off limits to the Japanese, and he said no, so I just have to garrison them.  No big deal.  If my opponent is able to actually blockade the western or southern map edges, I have much more serious problems to deal with.  [:D]  If he can do it, I say more power to him.  It's my job to prevent it.  I do understand that the map edges are "artificial barriers", but they are part of the game design that I chose to play.  A football field has artificial barriers on the sidelines, but the ball carrier can still have his progress stopped by the defense forcing him into the barriers.  I say, if the map edges are such a concern to someone, don't start a game on a map without unreachable shipping channels, like RHS has or AE will have. 

BTW, I read John and Q-ball's AAR, and thought their plans to take Addu Atoll and cut off the shipping was a great one.  Why else is it even there?  As the Allies, if my opponent chooses to put lots of resources and effort into cutting off shipping from Aden to Oz, then I'll put just as much effort and resources into keeping the supply lines from the US open.  It may be hard, and I may not be able to do it, but this is WAR! [8D]

[anarchyintheuk]

Addu is there because it was an historic base used by the Eastern Fleet during the war. It's also about 1200+ miles from the coast of Africa. Seems a steep distance to, in effect, place a blockade between India/Suez and Australia although it would add a considerable distance to any direct travel.

Having thought about it some more, I guess it depends on AB's intentions when he designed it.

Male is the approximate location of Addu Atoll.

http://encarta.msn.com/map_701561955/addu_atoll.htm

[Shark7]

Once Addu is taken, wouldn't the best HR be to limit any aircraft other than pure patrol A/C operating there be to limit the range to 2-3 hexes to properly simulate the vast open ocean? I leave patrol A/C out of this due to the enormous range on the Mavis and Emily, and the fact that patrol craft will not be able to sink a convoy outright, maybe damage a ship here or there, but the damage is very limited.

As far as ships, once Addu is taken I would again limit it to only Subs or the AMC commerce raider types that could have operated at those great distances. But that is just me.

[ChickenOfTheSea]

ORIGINAL: USS America

I say, if the map edges are such a concern to someone, don't start a game on a map without unreachable shipping channels, like RHS has or AE will have. 

BTW, I read John and Q-ball's AAR, and thought their plans to take Addu Atoll and cut off the shipping was a great one.  Why else is it even there?  As the Allies, if my opponent chooses to put lots of resources and effort into cutting off shipping from Aden to Oz, then I'll put just as much effort and resources into keeping the supply lines from the US open.  It may be hard, and I may not be able to do it, but this is WAR! [8D]

Actually, on the RHS level 7 maps, Addu Atoll is in a critical location where there is no unreachable shipping channel. If the Allied player does not garrison and defend this base, shipping between Aden-Musqat-Karachi-Bombay and elsewhere could be seriously disrupted.

[Barb]

You could consider this:
Allow free peacefull passage of whatever ships from Calcutta/Aden/Cape Town to/from Australia once in a year or half. Allies can then ship supplies from US West Coast to Australia. With this you can simulate British using Panama canal route and occasional Cape Town-Australia convoy.

[FOW]

I'm currently enjoying
this gentlemans game against John and Q-ball - although why they pick on me and leave Wolfpack alone does make me wonder [;)]

When I originally concieved this HR it was to 'simulate' that convoys could be routed from Capetown direct to Oz, and from Aden via Seychelles to loop round to the south to Oz also. I offered to operate only at cruise speed to add the required time to the journey. Also I suggested that should Perth be captured, that it would effectively cut Oz off from supply from the west (the channel ends level with Geraldton).
I must admit that Addu didn't register at the time as I viewed it as part of India and not Africa. The issue is, given the original intent of the HR, is it viable that a/c based at Addu would cover the route on naval attack mission ?

John did look into introducing a different map with the RHS shipping channels but a couple of base differences scuppered that idea.

( the views above are my own and do not include those of my partner. We will resolve this to an amicable and mutually acceptable solution in due course - or toss a coin [:D] )

[Canoerebel]

I agree that it should not be possible to blockade Australia.  However, if the Japs take Addu Atoll and a port in SW Australia (Exmouth or Perth being two examples), the Allies should have to slow down any convoys between Aden and Australia to represent the fact that ships would have to be routed far to the south.  I don't know how you do this - perhaps once ships reach the midway hex they have to stay there for some period of time representing additional sailing time (certainly not more than a week, I would think).

[Q-Ball]

I think the consensus is that we can't cut the sea lane. Kind of makes Addu pretty worthless for Japan, but we already have everyone loaded up with nowhere to go otherwise.

I am going to propose this HR:

1. We will not have planes on Nav Attack on Addu. Allies may free transit to Australia on slow move.
2. Allies ships making transit must stick to map edge. Anything off the map edge is fair game, and can't re-enter the map edge lane.
3. Map edge lane cannot be used by invasion TF's or bombardment TF's or anything intending harm at any point; otherwise, it could be abused to get within a few hexes of Southern India. In reality, we would be able to spot them further out.
4. We can Nav Search from Addu 4 hexes. We won't have subs in that zone except ones in transit. That will mean we can spot what kind of traffic is in the sea lane. We'll be able to do that from the Southwest coast of India anyway. Take India back, and that will end that intel.

Is all that fair?

[Yamato hugger]

Dont even think about this in AE. Very few ships can make the South Africa to Perth run unless they have tankers following them.

Edit: 132 hexes Cape Town to Perth - 99 hexes Colombo to Perth.

[undercovergeek]

is that the opening turn or is it a jap invasion of pearl?

[Yamato hugger]

Thats Dec 7th before the first turn.

[undercovergeek]

whats that red dot down in the se corner near fiji?

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

whats that red dot down in the se corner near fiji?

Probably I-10?