Following another TF...

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Mistmatz
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:56 pm

Following another TF...

Post by Mistmatz »

... sucks big time. Or I suck big time and did something stupid I'm not able to see. Hope you can help me understand this.

I have three single CV TFs. Wasp, Enterprise and Saratoga. The latter two are following Wasp which appears to be the slowest TF of the three. The Wasp TF is following an ASW TF of destroyers. This ASW TF is set to move 3 hexes to the NE. I use these chained follow TF commands a lot and can't remember a single problem or obscurity with it until last turn in my PBEM.

Following the screenshots, first the ASW TF.







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Mistmatz
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RE: Following another TF...

Post by Mistmatz »

Here the Wasp TF:



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Mistmatz
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RE: Following another TF...

Post by Mistmatz »

And finally Enterprise:



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Mistmatz
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RE: Following another TF...

Post by Mistmatz »

And here is the result of this glorious move, ending Wasp and the ASW TF as wanted, but Sara and Enterprise one hex behind. They moved only two of the three desired hexes. Notice the red numbers for movement range, they were ok the turn before and I set all TF's homeport to Ndini which is about 6 hexes or so away.

Now please explain why Sara and Enterprise didn't make it into Wasps hex and left her alone to be crippled by japanese carriers... [:@]

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Mistmatz
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RE: Following another TF...

Post by Mistmatz »

Once more Enterprise after the turn in better detail:

EDIT: Hmmm, the red numbers are still not clear. They read 112/19998

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rtrapasso
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RE: Following another TF...

Post by rtrapasso »

As you said: you've CHAINED the "to follow" commands, which is going to cause problem... when doing something like this, have all TFs follow a single TF (the ASW one in this case, or better yet, have all set to follow the WASP TF).

At some point, the carriers will refuel not at the same time as the TF taking the lead does... this means they will fall behind... you need to set the LEAD TF on CRUISE speed and the following TFs on at least Mission Speed, or sometimes FULL SPEED (depending on the relative speeds of the TF, fuel capacity of the ships involved.)

Just looking at the numbers, it appears that the DDs in the Air Combat TFs have slightly lower endurance than the ones in the ASW TF - so (if true) this would be inevitable that the TFs with the shorter-legged DDs will fall behind.

The game counts actual miles moved, but displays by hexes, so you might not be able to tell you are having your TFs separate until they actually move 1 hex apart - and something unfortunate happens. [X(] [:(]

Again: never chain your "To Follow" commands, or you will end up with heartache.
Mistmatz
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RE: Following another TF...

Post by Mistmatz »

I understand what you mean regarding a short legged TF (or vessels) following one with better range.
But in this case we are talking about a movement of only 3 hexes (2 for the following CV TFs), a closeby harbour (4 hexes away) and a remaining range of 70 hexes for the most short legged vessel, which happens to be a DD in the Wasp group (the one that followed properly)!

I checked the endurance of all vessels before and after the turn. I learned that all vessels in a TF had had the same consumtion, which leads me to the assumption that no refueling at all happened as otherwise only the DDs would show a difference.

The numbers are
ASW group: -240 (3 hexes)
Enterprise group: -198 (2 hexes)
Saratoga group: -302 (2 hexes)
Wasp group: -492 (3 hexes)

Saratoga had a minor air attack inbound which explains her higher consumption compared to Enterprise. Wasp took a real beating and therefore has the highest loss of endurance.

So there must be something different than refueling that prevented Sara and Big E to follow Wasp as ordered. Or are you saying chained 'follow TF' commands are generally bugged?

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rtrapasso
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RE: Following another TF...

Post by rtrapasso »

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Or are you saying chained 'follow TF' commands are generally bugged?
Yes - that is what i am saying.

Even when NOT chaining TFs, you will run into the refueling, etc. problems i've described - but chaining will make it far worse.

When you chain movement orders, you can pretty much count on something untowards happening.
Mistmatz
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:56 pm

RE: Following another TF...

Post by Mistmatz »

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Or are you saying chained 'follow TF' commands are generally bugged?
Yes - that is what i am saying.

Even when NOT chaining TFs, you will run into the refueling, etc. problems i've described - but chaining will make it far worse.

When you chain movement orders, you can pretty much count on something untowards happening.


Too bad, thats exactely what I feared it would come down to, although I never experienced any problems so far. I've been lucky so far I assume. [:(]

Well, I guess there is hope on the horizon...
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engineer
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Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:32 pm

RE: Following another TF...

Post by engineer »

rtrapasso has the right advice for you.  Tactically, you want the separate CV TF's to minimize the damage that the Japanese can inflict, but the price of that defensive resilience is that you lose operational mobility since you just about have to put the lead TF on cruise.  To help keep your TF's together, you might want to mix some minesweepers or PG's in with the lead ASW TF to hold the speed down so the air combat TF's will always end the daylight turn in the same hex.   
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