Pearl Harbor and AI

[pad152]

Ok having the Japanese (AI) hit Pearl Harbor a second time was cute at first but, having the Japanese still hitting Pearl Harbor on Dec 11th is a bit much![8|]

[Brady]

Are you playing unhistoric first turn?

[pad152]

Non-historic first turn but, not twilight zone theater! My only hope now is waiting for Kirk Douglas and USS Nimitz to show up!

[Andy Mac]

The AI has a small chance of lingering at PH and an even smaller chance of REALLY lingering you were just unliucky !!!

[myros]

One of the devs said that there are some built in variances on the initial sequences, keeps it interesting IMO. If you dont like a particular startup, restart. Otherwise you just have to deal with it, the AI didnt cheat it just hit you with the unexpected ... what more could you ask for?
 

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

The AI has a small chance of lingering at PH and an even smaller chance of REALLY lingering you were just unliucky !!!

Ok, when does Kirk Douglas and USS Nimitz to show up?

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: myros

One of the devs said that there are some built in variances on the initial sequences, keeps it interesting IMO. If you dont like a particular startup, restart. Otherwise you just have to deal with it, the AI didnt cheat it just hit you with the unexpected ...

Actually, considering the real world fuel state of Kido Butai, it hit him with the impossible. But players were requesting more variety from the AI..., so don't be too hard on Andy for giving them what they asked for...

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: myros

One of the devs said that there are some built in variances on the initial sequences, keeps it interesting IMO. If you dont like a particular startup, restart. Otherwise you just have to deal with it, the AI didnt cheat it just hit you with the unexpected ...

Actually, considering the real world fuel state of Kido Butai, it hit him with the impossible. But players were requesting more variety from the AI..., so don't be too hard on Andy for giving them what they asked for...

twilight zone theater

Variety is defined as doing something different, not the same thing over and over again!

Have Kido Butai or just some if it's carriers go hit the aircraft factories in Seattle or support the invasion of Midway, that would be different!

I think the AI needs a little tweaking, having Kido Butai camp out for 4 days at Pearl Harbor is just a bit much!

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: pad152

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: myros

One of the devs said that there are some built in variances on the initial sequences, keeps it interesting IMO. If you dont like a particular startup, restart. Otherwise you just have to deal with it, the AI didnt cheat it just hit you with the unexpected ...

Actually, considering the real world fuel state of Kido Butai, it hit him with the impossible. But players were requesting more variety from the AI..., so don't be too hard on Andy for giving them what they asked for...

Variety is defined as doing something different, not the same thing over and over again!

Have Kido Butai or just some if it's carriers go hit the aircraft factories in Seattle or support the invasion of Midway, that would be different!

I think the AI needs a little tweaking, having Kido Butai camp out for 4 days at Pearl Harbor is just a bit much!

"carriers go hit the aircraft factories in Seattle or support the invasion of Midway, that would be different!"

The first would be even more impossible given the fuel considerations..., and the second would require the Japanese to have an invasion TF headed to Midway (Which they didn't.). But I agree that there is need of some "tweeking" to prevent the "camping out" result from going to extremes. My point was "Don't blame Andy" as he was only trying to respond to player requests for variety.

[Mark Weston]

If camping out at Pearh Harbour is causing a player problems, then that's pretty much the definition of the AI doing a good job.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Non-historic first turn but, not twilight zone theater! My only hope now is waiting for Kirk Douglas and USS Nimitz to show up!

If playing non-historic, why wouldn't a good AI remain near Pearl?

It IS a target rich environment!.

[NightFlyer]

Nagumo really botched PH imo and was criticized in Japan afterwards. He only launched 2 waves. He should have attacked the dockyards, sub pens, fuel supplies, hunted out the US carriers etc etc. He was a political appointee, not that great of a air naval doctrine leader. He may have lost one or two carriers if he did this but PH would have been out of action for six months. There isn't a fuel issue because of the replenishment TF near KB. The AI is acting "smarter" than Nagumo, but I agree that being camped for 4 or 5 days is a bit much [:D] Try sending all your subs after them. I like the variation in AE, it shouldn't, again imho, repeat exactly what happened in history - that would be like watching a documentary and not let the players do some what-if's (within reason of what was possible). The US camped Leyte and Okinawa cuz they had leaders who wanted to win hehe.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

If camping out at Pearh Harbour is causing a player problems, then that's pretty much the definition of the AI doing a good job.

It's also indicative of the flak model failing utterly. No way could a CV group remain on station day after day hitting targets over and over... Historically they would have run out of planes due to flak losses within a day or two.

Jim

[Mark Weston]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

If camping out at Pearh Harbour is causing a player problems, then that's pretty much the definition of the AI doing a good job.

It's also indicative of the flak model failing utterly. No way could a CV group remain on station day after day hitting targets over and over... Historically they would have run out of planes due to flak losses within a day or two.

Jim

I'm not buying this. Where during WWII did AA demonstrate anything like the ability to destroy a six-carrier air group in two days?

[mussey]

Love the AI surprises - keep 'em coming! [:D]

[Dixie]

I like to think my PT boats scared the KB away from PH [:D]

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

If camping out at Pearh Harbour is causing a player problems, then that's pretty much the definition of the AI doing a good job.

If a player did this, it would be called gamey!

[pad152]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: pad152

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl





Actually, considering the real world fuel state of Kido Butai, it hit him with the impossible. But players were requesting more variety from the AI..., so don't be too hard on Andy for giving them what they asked for...

Variety is defined as doing something different, not the same thing over and over again!

Have Kido Butai or just some if it's carriers go hit the aircraft factories in Seattle or support the invasion of Midway, that would be different!

I think the AI needs a little tweaking, having Kido Butai camp out for 4 days at Pearl Harbor is just a bit much!

"carriers go hit the aircraft factories in Seattle or support the invasion of Midway, that would be different!"

The first would be even more impossible given the fuel considerations..., and the second would require the Japanese to have an invasion TF headed to Midway (Which they didn't.). But I agree that there is need of some "tweeking" to prevent the "camping out" result from going to extremes. My point was "Don't blame Andy" as he was only trying to respond to player requests for variety.

First no one is blaming anyone, just pointing things out.

If historic first turn is off, I really don't understand the issue. Why couldn't Japan invade Midway on turn one, then use it as refueling point with the oilers docked there? or with the magic first turn movement hit Seattle with a couple of carriers while the rest hit pearl harbor. It seems with non-historic turn one anything is possible!

[NightFlyer]

I don't think it's gamey, in real life massive US fleets lingered for days off the Marianas, Leyte and Okinawa. Even when an invasion wasn't involved this occurred for example the US fleet pounding Truk lagoon for two days on February 17-18, 1944. Just because Nagumo was too dumb to take advantage of an opportunity that never came again doesn't mean the AI has to be dumbed down as well. Just my opinion and the US would have eventually won anyways....

[henri51]

ORIGINAL: NightFlyer

I don't think it's gamey, in real life massive US fleets lingered for days off the Marianas, Leyte and Okinawa. Even when an invasion wasn't involved this occurred for example the US fleet pounding Truk lagoon for two days on February 17-18, 1944. Just because Nagumo was too dumb to take advantage of an opportunity that never came again doesn't mean the AI has to be dumbed down as well. Just my opinion and the US would have eventually won anyways....

I believe you are right. The Japanese commander got cold feet and cancelled the third strike that had been planned. If he had launched it and done enough damage, who knows if a 4th strike or more would not have become possible?

In this game, the US player has the advantage of hindsight, so if the AI does something unexpected, too bad for the player...It could be interestnig to see Japanese pbem players try to outwit the US players right after Pearl harmor.[8|]

After all, the US commanders did not have the opportunity of saying:"OK now Pearl Harbor is over, let's pull out of all the areas where we are sure to lose, and fortify the ones where we can delay or hurt them - and don't worry about the US coast, we know they won't attack there."

Henri