Defensive formation in clear terrain

[Gribeauval]

I have also a question regarding the new defensive formation introduced in this new version.

In the current version of the game, a unit can use the defensive formation not only in obstructed terrains, but also in a clear terrain.
It gives the unit the ability to use an all-around defense in open ground.
Is this historical ? The units fought in line in clear terrain during this period. They were not trained to form an hedgehog against a threat coming from all directions.

[jackx]

Agreed, this formation should only be possible in built-up, wooded or defensive terrain.
However, it's not a square, it just looks like one.

The unit is treated as in Square formation for movement, but as in Skirmish formation for combat.

Makes you much more vulnerable to assaults, but less vulnerable to artillery, pretty much the opposite of a square.

[PrinzHenrich]

Historical in Kolin Prussian guard take such defensive position when one of rank turn back so the battalion can fire forward and rare

[sol_invictus]

Not sure if this is a bug or a last minute change but initially the player was only to be allowed to adopt the defensive formation in town, woods, and redoubt type terrain.

[jackx]

Let's call it a bug, because it'd be better if defensive formation was restricted to those terrain types.

I can see it being useful in the open occasionally, as an approximation of about-facing the rear rank, as mentioned above by PH. However, about-facing the rear-rank is something different, as the unit remains in line and in close order, and should be an additional option/formation, which removes the rear zone, but keeps the flanks, and probably should have penalties for both the front rank (light) and the rear rank (more severe), based on troop quality.

[Tim Coakley]

The Defensive formation was added to try out how the game could be modded for the future. It is a compromise between programming time and end result.

I expect to relook how this formation works in the future when we add Assualt Column formation.

Tim

[jackx]

Assault columns... not sure I like the sound of that - I wouldn't mind a specific assault formation (that lets you assault across bridges, for instance, and also improves your assault ability in built up and defensive terrain), but calling it assault column is just too napoleonic...

Speaking of assaults, I'd like to see the morale check at the end of an assault move/cold steel move make a comeback.
That way, there'd at least be some risk attached to using those extra MPs for purposes other than assaulting the enemy. Of course, it'd have to be changed from "check if not in ZoC" to "check if not actually carrying out an assault in the assault phase".
It's extremely useful, but it also feels wrong - go cold steel, recover some disruption, and then column your shaken units out of trouble. Yeah right...

[Gribeauval]

Thanks for the quick answer.

I'm also very glad to learn that a new assault column formation will be added to the engine.

[Tim Coakley]

The assualt column is for future use in other time periods (Napoleonics), but the allowable formations can be set per unit

[Sumter]

I would say the more formations the better.  The game system can be used to design scenarios from conflicts between the Seven Years War at least to the U.S.-Mexican War and probably the U.S. Civil War.  Sadly, I lack the knowledge and skills to mod armies from these later eras, but I hope that at some point Magnus might be induced to offer army packs for these periods.

The lack of variety in artillery poses something of a challenge.  It would be great if HNM added howitzers and mortars. 

Also, a formation that would really be useful is mounted forces able to fight either mounted or dismounted.  For scenarios involving the southern campaigns in the American Revolution or even frontier warfare these true-dragoon type units are essential.  (It is possible to create units in the existing system that move and appear mounted when in march column but fight and appear as infantry in all other formations.  Just replace the march column file of an infantry unit with the march column file from a cavalry unit and mod the uniforms.  I assign the units less movement points than true cavalry so that when in fighting formations the "dismounted" dragoons are not rushing around like cavalry.  Not a great compromise, but it does broaden the possibilities.)

 

[PrinzHenrich]

It is possible, just change unit graphic

[Sertorius1]

Sumter,

I agree with you about the dismounted formation for the dragoons at least. There has been some discussion about this subject. The artillery is based on what the original Dragoon had. I wouldn't be surprised if howitzers were added in the future. You might even see the amusette, which brings me to this about formations that might be of interest to the posters on this thread. Despite what some historians think the infantry attack column has its beginnings with a gentleman name Chevalier Follard back in the early 18th century instead of an inspiration of desperation conceived by those Royal officers not executed or banished by the revolutionaries as a means to exercise some sort of control over the raw troops they had in the 1790s. Frederick was familiar with it and looked at it, but decided against adopting it for reasons unknown to me. Maybe he didn't either have the time due to war or the inclination to make a drastic change of doctrine that was involved. Anyway, the French had something of a military renaissance around the 1770s. One of the techinical devices they came up with was the screw elevator for the artillery. As for tactical innovation they re-examined Follard's idea and worked out the tactics and the formation for attack column employment. The earliest I've found it used was by some French battalions at Rossbach. It is possible it may have been used in northern Germany during this period, but I am not sure.

I mention the amusette above. de Saxe wanted to use them with another formation that in this case, never saw the light of day, his legion.

[jackx]

Howitzers would be a nice addition, even though, when part of mixed batteries, their ability to stand out as indirect fire artillery would be rather limited.
If artillery was revamped, what I'd like to see most are fires and the ability to destroy obstacles/defenses. You know, the whole setting villages on fire and blasting breaches into church walls deal...

I just said that "assault column" is a word one associates closely with Napoleonics, and my main concern was for the future direction the series would take.
Gameplay-wise, I have no problems with it at all, and why would anyone, when just about anything about all the formations can be changed in the editor anyways.

[PrinzHenrich]

About column: It is unfair if one battalion attacked in normal formation second battalion in column, can't fire first.
I have asked many mounth ago about howitzers. I have try to remade gun options to be closer to howitzer - any suggestions?

[Magnus]

Hmm howitzers is feasible. I´ll see if I can include them into the next game graphically.