Aircraft rockets

[Sardaukar]

I don't think they are in stock game scenarios, but not sure, didn't check the database.

Anyway, has anyone tried to see if they work? I mean air-to-ground/sea rockets ala Beaufighter or Typhoon.

[Terminus]

Here's an idea: why don't YOU try it, and find out?

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I don't think they are in stock game scenarios, but not sure, didn't check the database.

Anyway, has anyone tried to see if they work? I mean air-to-ground/sea rockets ala Beaufighter or Typhoon.

Now I know why it took so long to get AE out, with that sort of attitude to their CUSTOMERS

I'm about to do my redo of Scen1 and was adding rockets in that.

BUT

AndyMacs Mariana scenario is in the right time frame so I might try that.

[CJ Martin]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Here's an idea: why don't YOU try it, and find out?

Wow, that's some kind of answer from a dev team member to what seems to be a legit and politely asked question.

I guess nothing has changed since I last checked this board. At least you are consistent.

-CJ

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Now I know why it took so long to get AE out, with that sort of attitude to their CUSTOMERS
I'm about to do my redo of Scen1 and was adding rockets in that.
BUT
AndyMacs Mariana scenario is in the right time frame so I might try that.

Terminus has a point Jeff. There is no way anybody can know everything about what has been done. One knows this - one knows that - one knows something else. What we must rely on is players smiling and dialing and figuiring things out for themselves. That's how we learn about what works and what may not.

Even if you try AndyMacs Mariana scenario, there's nothing there that says rockets work or don't. If they work for Andy, they work for all; if they don't work for all, they won't work for Andy.

I do believe they work, but depend on feedback from players as to whether this is true or not. Terminus is right on point with this one.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Now I know why it took so long to get AE out, with that sort of attitude to their CUSTOMERS
I'm about to do my redo of Scen1 and was adding rockets in that.
BUT
AndyMacs Mariana scenario is in the right time frame so I might try that.

Terminus has a point Jeff. There is no way anybody can know everything about what has been done. One knows this - one knows that - one knows something else. What we must rely on is players smiling and dialing and figuiring things out for themselves. That's how we learn about what works and what may not.

Even if you try AndyMacs Mariana scenario, there's nothing there that says rockets work or don't. If they work for Andy, they work for all; if they don't work for all, they won't work for Andy.

I do believe they work, but depend on feedback from players as to whether this is true or not. Terminus is right on point with this one.

JWE,

I would have assumed that the game had been tested to this level, do A-G Rockets work yes or no? Or do we have to test it like Artillery & Subs were tested!

Even a "We didnt test it, give it a try" OR "We did test them, go ahead" answer would have been better. I cant see it in the manual, so Sardarkaur's enquiry seems more than reasonable, being told to do it himself is poor customer service to someone who just spent 50-60 Euro? on the game. If T wants to keep his resume as a signature he represents the AE Dev Team, if he removes it he becomes just another poster.

I mentioned Andys scenario as its small and and in the right timeframe to do a test by using rocket equipped aircraft.

[Nemo121]

So is the official position of the development team that it is useless asking them questions since they didn't test the game enough to know whether certain devices work?

Sorry but I'm quite sure the development team tested whether or not rockets work so I think Sardaukar is perfectly entitled to ask a polite question regarding their use in the expectation that one of the development team might answer. Sure he should have asked it in the Air Thread as that's the appropriate place for this and the air team do seem significantly more helpful and responsive than the naval or economic teams.

[ny59giants]

Another case of the frog and the scorpion. [;)]

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
So is the official position of the development team that it is useless asking them questions since they didn't test the game enough to know whether certain devices work?

Sorry but I'm quite sure the development team tested whether or not rockets work so I think Sardaukar is perfectly entitled to ask a polite question regarding their use in the expectation that one of the development team might answer. Sure he should have asked it in the Air Thread as that's the appropriate place for this and the air team do seem significantly more helpful and responsive than the naval or economic teams.

It was actually, a quite polite response.

Frankly, it's loud mouthed jerks like you that tend to annoy. Please rest assured that you are now green buttoned, and anything further your wish to sasy will be affirmatively ignored.

I am requesting Matrix to review your posts, and those of certain others like you, with a view towards removing your juvenile bile from these forums.

[Historiker]

There is no way anybody can know everything about what has been done. One knows this - one knows that - one knows something else.

And that's why people ask. No one forced T to "answer"...
If Sardaukar had demanded others to test it...

So hello green button for me, too, John [;)]

Was nice writing with you!

[whippleofd]

Dang, if this keeps up pretty darned soon everyone's gonna be ignoring everyone else.

Whipple

[Nemo121]

Well, my issue wasn't with the post's politeness it was with the post's helpfulness.

Developers created the game. They know the game better than anyone else. When people have questions it seems reasonable they should ask the developers. It is also reasonable to assume that when players have paid money over to those developers/publishers that there's some sort of contract that they get an answer which is actually informative.

That seems, to me, to be business relations 101 level stuff.


I would point out that while my post most certainly took issue with the stance you took on responding to this issue it wasn't abusive etc. I think that the fact that you would refer it to the admins and would state so publicly is, effectively, bullying and an attempt to silence the expression of opinions different than your own. Pointing out the lack of responsiveness is factual and not abusive.

As such I look forward to being informed whom is dealing with your complaint and being able to discuss the merits and demerits of your complaint with them --- as I'm sure Matrix itself has far better customer relations than your portion of the AE team has. I would be obliged if someone (other than JWE as he has rather petulantly chosen to "green button" me ) could inform me as to whom the complaint has been made to so I can discuss it with them --- as is my right under common law.

I also find it intriguing that the very person who has stooped to abusive language describing customers in posts on this very forum would report another for having the temerity to point out their poor conduct in the customer service role. That, to me, is interesting and immature. I might not like what some people have to say but I don't have to green button them or tell them I'm reporting them to "the parents" in order to frighten them into shutting up.



I would also like to state that I agree with Historiker. No-one forced Terminus or you to respond. It would have been entirely appropriate for either of you to respond with either:
1. "I don't know but I've asked one of the air team to let you know." or
2. " This isn't the appropriate place to post this. Post it to the air thread and I'm sure someone will answer you."

Instead Terminus followed a long history of giving answers which are not very informative and quite attitudinally based ( very poor customer service .... and, yes, I know you're all volunteers but the thing you've volunteered in has been sold for money and with that transaction come certain expectations of level of customer service, responsiveness and conduct ). It is certainly his right to give that answer if he wishes but when players then bemoan the unhelpfulness of that answer that's their right ( and backed by facts ) also - and based in facts.


Lastly, I'm sure these "others" you have also reported would be extremely interested in hearing of your complaints against them. Are they going to be publicly informed of being reported or...
a) are these allegations being made behind closed doors without the accused being informed of them or being given any right of reply? --- this seems most dubious and against the tenets of common law to me or

b) will they be informed of their being reported and allowed to give their view of events?


Also, I would be most interested in why I'm being singled out for public mention as being referred to the admins... And just to be clear, I don't think its a big conspiracy, I think its just an example of poor customer relations in action again.

I know it can be difficult to deal with customers online etc but, really, it is a shame to see so many threads here which could be easily dealt with by either a constructive answer or being referred to the appropriate thread ( air, naval, land, economic ), instead, being fobbed off with utterly uninformative answers by the development team and often degenerating into conflict between the development team and the questioners who, rightly, feel they aren't being informatively replied to. Developers reporting their own customers to admins for having the temerity to disagree with them is a new low though...


So, anyways, I expect to be informed within 24 hours of either the withdrawal of this complaint or of the specific complaint made against me and which of the admins will be dealing with it and what my precise rights of reply will be. Otherwise I will be making my own contact with Matrix to ascertain this information / explore the complaints procedure.

[CJ Martin]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
So is the official position of the development team that it is useless asking them questions since they didn't test the game enough to know whether certain devices work?

Sorry but I'm quite sure the development team tested whether or not rockets work so I think Sardaukar is perfectly entitled to ask a polite question regarding their use in the expectation that one of the development team might answer. Sure he should have asked it in the Air Thread as that's the appropriate place for this and the air team do seem significantly more helpful and responsive than the naval or economic teams.

It was actually, a quite polite response.

Frankly, it's loud mouthed jerks like you that tend to annoy. Please rest assured that you are now green buttoned, and anything further your wish to sasy will be affirmatively ignored.

I am requesting Matrix to review your posts, and those of certain others like you, with a view towards removing your juvenile bile from these forums.

If that was a polite response, you might as well add me to that ban list. Now we have devs calling people "loud mouth jerks" on the company forum. Nice!

But first, who do I contact about getting my money back for AE? What name will I be called for that request, I wonder?

This whole AE thing has pretty much finished my support for Matrix products, I'll likely not purchase another one. Someone at Matrix, feel free to review my account, I have been a paying customer for years and this sort of rudeness from your devs is way over the line.

-CJ

[chesmart]

Guys can we all take a break and cool off before evrybody starts green buttoning each other. I think the dev team including terminus( who is extremely straight to the point and blunt) have done extremely good job first with the release of AE and then with the forum feedback on the patches, where till now most of the original problems have been resolved. Till now my experience with AE has been excellent compared to other games which i bought Like HOI3 and Total War(which are not even 5% as detailed) Patches have been coming out in a regular basis, explanations on decisions have been issued by the devs on most of the issues we have asked so i would rate customer care to be excellent. Now if the confrontation continues to escalate the product will suffer and all of us will lose in the process. Our common goal is for the game to improve I think or do we have differant agendas and axes to grind ? We have already lost DON because of this system of confrontation how many other devs shall we lose before all the personal issues are solved ?

Does anybody think that we would have had a better product had Matrix or some other company done it with their own staff, personally i think that the system used in AE has been very effective as it got players like us to help improve the WITP for the better. IF people like Don, JWE and Terminus did not in there spare time( which they could have spent with there families and close ones becaue i do not think they did it for the money) decide to join together there knowledge ( which is impressive wht they know about the pacwar, I mean i thought i knew my history down to the details but these people can probably tell me which bolt with which serial number went in which AK) the game would not be what it is today and with the community that there is in these forums.

Regarding Sardauker Air to Ground rocket question in my personal testing Mod i have put rockets on the planes, the system I used was the old Witp trick of setting them as guns. I copied the data from RHS and they work I had a F-6f pilot with 85 Exp sink an AK with 1 strike of rockets.

[Nemo121]

Che,

The really sad thing here is that:
a) the more I play AE the more I like the model and the subtleties of its interactions.
b) I've actually been called a "fanboy" by another poster here for DEFENDING the AE developers against some ill-founded ( IMO ) contentions.

I think that if someone who likes the game and has publicly posted on the forum to defend it when it is wrongly called into question ( but who, equally, will call it into question when necessary... something which isn't abusive or threatening but actually essential to helping progress and hone the game ) is derided as a "loud-mouthed jerk" ( surely a derisive term which meets the criteria of abusive language as set out within the forum rules ) then what hope have we of having any sort of open discourse.

Again, disagreeing isn't the same as being abusive and certainly disagreeing and pointing out flaws isn't a breach of forum rules... unless this was the old Talonsoft boards of course which were infamous for banning people for saying honest things the devs/publishers didn't like and ended up with one of the worst customer service reputations in the industry.

Che, I fully agree they've done some excellent work here. On the other hand that they've done excellent work doesn't mean that one shouldn't point out areas where they are failing to engage appropriately with customers.


As re: rockets and AE... Well, in WiTP I've got rockets in my mod and equipped B25Hs and B25Js and they are regularly hitting barges and smaller combatants with them. On the other hand there is something wrong when the most informative answers in this thread don't come from the two developers in this thread but, instead, come from two customers who are relating it to a previous product with no guarantee that the assumptions from that product bear true in this product.

As far as personal things go.... Hell, I don't even know JWE's first name. I don't know him well enough to have any personal axe to grind... It does seem, however, that JWE may have a personal axe to grind against me but that's his business... My ONLY issue in this thread was with the less than helpful and less than professional replies from the developers.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Whipple

Dang, if this keeps up pretty darned soon everyone's gonna be ignoring everyone else.

Whipple

I just expect him to greenbutton me. I have a huge respect for John... [;)]

Edit:
And while the game still frightens me in some way, I admire this masterpiece!

[chesmart]

Nemo

Yes I copied the rocket data from your mod mostly. My problem with these dicussions is this I want AE to be developed further and the few bugs and problems solved by the same Dev team that created it. Now From the time of the launch of the game 1 member (DON) has resigned because he got fed up of certain comments passed. Now guys the option is this we either be nice to each other and help each other get this game to the level of detail we want or the rest of the dev team will start leaving 1 by 1 till when none remain. I used to be member on the harpoon3 forums (which was the best modern warfare simulation ever) and thats how the wars started on those forums. Harpoon3 had one ofthe best communites helping developing the game today it is a desert because of all the infighting that happened there and everybody attacking each other, development of the game has slowed down to a snails pace and the game/community is mostly dead IMO. I dont want the same to happen to AE and I think neither do you guys (both sides Devs and us Players) so PLEASE lets all take a step back andd take a deep breath and then we start discussing civily again. In 3 years that I owned WITP I always remembered Terminus giving short and straight answers to questions asked and people have always had wars ongoing with him (I still remember the wars he had with ElCid) so what has changed ?

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I don't think they are in stock game scenarios, but not sure, didn't check the database.

Anyway, has anyone tried to see if they work? I mean air-to-ground/sea rockets ala Beaufighter or Typhoon.

I tried, but seeing as how I am a completely idiot where the editor is concerned, I could not get them to work......Wait for one of the "pro" modders to answer.

And T's answer was his usual PITA answer. I spent 3 hours jacking with the damn things till I gave up.....but knew if I asked here, I would probably have T pop off like he did and piss me off more.

[RyanCrierie]

I'm still waiting really, on 02 - PLane Guided Missiles; I've tried testing them extensively; but while they show up for the japanese side; no matter how many of them you put in the device pool, they never, ever show up on the US side; thus preventing aircraft equipped with them from sortieing with the weapons.

Nevermind that a japanese destroyer was sunk with a BAT before WWII ended.

[JuanG]

Yes, rockets do work.

Took all of 2 minutes to modify the Coral Sea scenario and give the Wildcats some extra teeth.

They even included the devices for you - #083. Set them up as Front facing and they seem to work fine.



Will probably be adding these to my mod...