Allied Transport Poverty

[segorn]

Hi Folks,

I recently had to abandon a game, playing as the allies in May of 1943 because I was down to 12 transports.

Now, I partly had myself to blame in that I'd decided on a very aggressive forward defense early in the game and took huge AP losses running supply convoys into Buna and Lunga.

The problem now though is that its May of 1943, I control New Guinea south of Lae, and everything east of Bougainville with the exception of an isolated but heavily garrisoned Shortland.

There are somewhere over 100 APs and AKs sitting in Pearl Harbor.

I have 10 APs and 2 AKs in theatre.

The game obstinantly refuses to send me transport reinforcements. I fact, the sum total of transport resources for all of 1943 was 2 LSTs and 2 LCIs. Many other transports reached Pearl, but none made it out to me.

Is anyone else running into this? If so, is there a solution? Alternately, does Matrix need to change their ship release formula to release ships based on class needs e.g. I'm not running out of ships in general, but I sure am running out of APs?

A

[U2]

Hi

This can happen with any type of ship and not just APs. Please also remember that the Pacific Fleet is not only used in your theater but the ENTIRE Pacific. Use your ships more carefully in the future because you never know when HQ at Pearl Harbour is gonna give you something. This varies from game to game. I once had 1CV and 1CVL as the IJN in August 1942! They did not release a darn CV to me since the start of the game. I think that this is something that makes the game more exciting because you never know......
Dan

[FAdmiral]

It would be nice to have in the game an ability for ship requests.
I know this really happened during the war where commanders
put in requests for ships they really needed.

JIM BERG, SR.

[mogami]

Hi, There is a commitment ceiling of 12k. Send ships of classess you have excess back to PH to get your level down (watch the probability go from low to moderate to high as you send ships back. If there are a lot of transports in PH some of them should be released as you lower the amout of ships in theatre.

[segorn]

I agree, I'd like to have some capability to request specific ships and/or classes. Maybe some form of buy point system would work e.g. I'll trade you that 300 VP carrier you were going to send me for 20 15 VP Assault Transports...

[Wasp]

I think that would be an good idea. How about another? Major damage inflicted on enemy can increase ship release possibility, and you get to ask for ships you would like to get. (like an priority system: 1. CVs, 2. BBs, 3. APs, etc). How about an system that allows you to get more political power (Huge damage done to the enemy, capturing a base, sinking major enemy ships increasing political power little by little): thus increasing the chances for your request for a ship to be granted. This reward system would be great because you can get a different experience each time you play the game. How about another factor? The more you win, you get a chance to recieve extra squadrons of aircraft/ground troops early, or get bonus units, or even units/aircraft with extra capability? (Ex. Getting a tank division stocked with extra men and tanks) What do you think? This would give the game an bigger uncertainty factor allowing us to have more fun with the game:D .

[HARD_SARGE]

I got a kick out of the game I am playing, as soon as I got the CVE Long Island, I sent it back to PH, hopeing to getting something I could use, when the Long Island got back to PH, they sent it back to me the next day

guess they didn't want it either

HARD_Sarge

(I get it tomorrow, and it going back again)

[segorn]

It sounds intersting, but I'd be concerned on balance of play grounds.

Right now, as far as I can tell, the game tends to have an anti-momentum bias in it.

If you get the snot knocked out of you by the Japanese and they sink your navy, you are *more* rather than less likely to get reinforcements.

Conversely, if you're doing very well (as I was in the game I got no reinforcements in), the game starves you of reinforcements.

The result of this is that the two sides stay relatively balanced throughout the game.

A system which rewarded you for doing well would, I think, fall victim to a momentum style of play e.g. once you get ahead of the other guy, you can just keep on him like a pit-bull b/c you'll get mroe and more troops and he'll get less and less. Sort of like games like Civilization where once your production exceeds the opposition its all over and will once get worse for them.

[brisd]

For those of you who want every ship just raise the commitment level to 200% and live a great fantasy. If you were Admiral Nimitz in PH and the South Pacific theater was kicking butt would you send more ships? NOT. So it is a matter of realism and I think the designers got it right the first time.

[segorn]

I'm not concerned b/c there's a fleet sitting in Pearl that I don't have access too. The concern is the nature of the reinforcements I'm getting.

I need transport assets e.g. AP, AK, LST, LI, etc.

I'd happily send back elements of my surface fleet and even a carrier.

Its certainly true that the entire US pacific fleet wasn't at the beck and call of Nimitz or MacArthur in this theatre.

Both Nimitz and MacArthur were, however, in communication with fleet HQ back in Pearl. Historically, when major issues arose, they could get on the horn back to Pearl and get them dealt with.

The theatre commanders could, and did, *talk* to their superiors and let them know what their needs were.

Example:

One of the early US invasions in the central pacific (was it Tarawa?) revealed that the a vast increase in the number of amphibious amtracs was needed to make landings over coral reefs.

Nimitz communicated that fact back to Pearl, and they communicated it back to the states. A few months later, large numbers of amtracs started rolling off the assembly lines stateside and heading out to Nimitz.

[bradfordkay]

Segorn, I agree with you about the need for the system to release ships of a type that we are starving for. I hope that sending back excess of other types will help ameliorate the situation (i haven't experienced it yet, but I haven't been in as dire need as you are either).

However, I wanted to point out that Adm. Chester Nimitz was in Pearl Harbor. He was CINCPAC (and thus the one with whom you now have a beef), and it was Ghormley (and then Halsey) who was COMSOPAC.

[HARD_SARGE]

Hi Brisd

If you were Admiral Nimitz in PH and the South Pacific theater was kicking butt would you send more ships? NOT

guess you have never heard of one of the first tenets of war

you reinforce success, not failure

I disagree with the way the game releases ships also, I would rather see a historical release, then one based on score or losses (do we get air units faster then normal if we lose more planes)

if the USS Matrix came to our war zone in Dec of 42, then that is when and what we should get

HARD_Sarge

[brisd]

Yes, reinforcement of success is a valid strategy for a commander. However, the point can be made if a strategic point is being threatened, more forces would be released to bolster that defense. The game system handles that pretty well in my opinion.

[HARD_SARGE]

Hi Brisd
I still disagree, in my few games as the Allied commander, the damage I have done to the IJN, takes away any "strategic point is being threatened" idea, they got no CV's left, no BB's, most of there Transports and Air is resting on the bottom of the Seas

still think we should get what we should of gotten, and what we didn't, should stay out of our greedy little hands, play balance should be done with the AI , not reinforcements

HARD_Sarge

[U2]

Originally posted by HARD_SARGE
when the Long Island got back to PH, they sent it back to me the next day guess they didn't want it either

I feel you pain:D Very funny post. Perhaps you could use it to ferry planes from Brisbane to Nomuea? Some A/C groups do not have enough range to make it. That's what I'm doing with it anyway.
Dan

[HARD_SARGE]

Hi U2
I have seen that idea posted before, but don't really understand it, you can fly to most bases in the Solomons (may take a few days) and in NG, I got 3 major bases (PM,Gili,Goodenough) and they got all the planes they really need, should have Lae in a few days (4300 JP troops, 4900 Aussies, with 12000 marching in the next couple of days (had 4000 more 2 miles away, stopped them in place for the other unit to close in, and it put them back where they started)

so, plan on pulling the lights out of Gili, a Fighter Squadron or 2 from PM, and that base is ready to go, wouldn't mind a squadron or 2 of SBD's, but there is nothing to attack in NG

oh well, long story short (yea right) I see no real need for the long island, see it as hurting me more then helping, if it gets hit, it is going down and lots of cheap points for the AI to gain, with out being worthwhile for me

and I have just parked 3 CV's in Munda for the last 10 days, to act as bait for the IJN air, LOL lots of bad weather, only one attack so far, and it was aimed at the base, they lost 4 Bettys, 15 Nells, 10 A6M2 and 1 A6m3, but that is a risk, that I believe I can take and will pay off in the long run, while the Long Island is not

oh well, guess I see things different then others

HARD_Sarge

oh it is Nov 10th 1942 in my game, historical aug 42 to dec 43 campaign

[U2]

Hi Hard Sarge

Its true that most A/C types can make it to Nomuea. In my case I had a CV battle and their airgroups made it to Australia but without the range to make it back. Therfore I moved them to Brisbane and then shipped them over for the defence of those Islands. This does not happen often and mostly she's just in port doing nothing. But right now I'm happy to have her. Tomorrow she will not do anything again. So for transfer of carrier groups from Australia she is OK:)
Dan

[HARD_SARGE]

Hi U2
yes, I can see that one, never had it happen to me, so didn't think along those lines, then again, I would most like of just put them on the front line in NG (and wait for some of the other CVE's to come in, if they last that long)

oh, I not saying the Long Island does not have it's uses, just I for one have not been useing it

HARD_Sarge

ahhhh, battle for Lea, 4900 Aussie vs 4300 JP, been tadeing attacks back and forth, the next group of Aussies marched in, and blamo, out of the blue, another JP reg shows up (don't think he could of flown in a whole Reg in one day ?, maybe it marched)

so now the battle is more like 8000 Aussies to 6000 JP, but got 2 more Aussie Reg's moveing in, think 2 and 4 days out, very good battle so far (like it better then the one attack sweep)

most marching I have done in any of my games yet

nice war so far, Buin fell on the 10th, the attack on Lea started on the 10th, Buka fell on the 15th (sank 19 AG in Shortland Harbor last night, it is a major deathtrap now)

maybe for 1.2 they can work some more on how the AI thinks on defence, it does not use the chain well as JP, and if you can bypass Shortland, you can bleed the AI dry

also, at least in my game, it was Nov 14th 1942 that the first JP planes show up in NG (9 Oscars, flying at least)

[Beckles]

Originally posted by segorn
I'd happily send back elements of my surface fleet and even a carrier.

Start sending some ships back then. To make sure they don't just turn them right around (like the CVE Long Island example), send back your ships with the most system damage (so, they only have 10 and you'd usually keep them ... if you have them to spare, send them back) so they'll have to spend some time getting repaired.

[FAdmiral]

Unfortunately, my skuttle and return to Pearl commands are
always grayed out so I can't send anything back. Even if they
have hvy. damage. Whats up with that???

JIM BERG, SR.