Is-4

Gary Tatro · Post by **Gary Tatro** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:29 pm

Russian Heavy Tank

.................Hull Armor....Slope........Turret Armor....Slope
Front..............160...........60...............250................30
Sides..............160...........30...............160................35
Rear................100..........48................110...............35
Top/Bottom......45................................45...................

Ok here is my question. Will be playing a PBEM game soon. My opponent is Russian. Rarity is off. Is there anything that can penitrate the Front armor of an IS-4 at range ten? This includes APRC.

I have run some tests with British 17 pounder ATG's, The British Centirion Heavy tanks, The US Pershing, 88's, Jackson's, and Achillies II's. The best results I got was about 1 round in 15 penitrated using the British 17 pound ATG with APRC ammo (less then ten hexes). Everything else shot bounced off and then the shooter died in a fire explosion op-fire.

Any suggestions?????

Orzel Bialy · Post by **Orzel Bialy** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:44 pm

Brush up on your Prayers!

Actually, it's been my experience that you won't find much of anything in the arsenal of the Western Allies to stand toe to toe with the IS 4.
Your best bet is still (in my view) a blend of Centurions and Pershings...employed in hit and run tactics in the hope that you can lure your opponent into "traps".
Where you can try the tried and true surprises... multiple tanks working in "packs" that will force his armor to turn in different directions when confronted, exposing him to flank shots....or hit them from higher ground, as the IS 4 did have a weak spot on it's turret armor just above the gun mount. ( doubt that has been factored in the game though) Set up ambushes...fall back on an area that you have plotted for an arty strike and let him chase you through it.

I know those suggestions are easier said than done and ones you are already aware of...but I can't off hand think of a tank that I've seen in the game that compares with the IS 4 in face to face combat.

Good Luck!

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:46 pm

Try to get behind them, much in the same way you would battle a Matilda or Tiger. Foot soliders are very effective for assualting at close range. Heavy artillery and or strike A/C 250 & 500 pound bombs pack quite a punch on direct hits.

Gary Tatro · Post by **Gary Tatro** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:06 am

the game is going to be a Soviet advance versus my delay.

BORO · Post by **BORO** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:48 am

Gary
At least your on the defensive so that you can make him come to you. Then you can hope he attacks with his IS-4 leading the way, instead of behind a good infantry screen. Buy some engineers and mine the approaches he will most likely use and then ambush, ambush, ambush.
Good Luck
Boro

Capt. Pixel · Post by **Capt. Pixel** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:51 am

Originally posted by Gary Tatro
the game is going to be a Soviet advance versus my delay.

Mines!
They will take out an IS-4 just as easily as a kubelwagen.

Kaakao · Post by **Kaakao** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:41 am

Short answer, flame + infantry.

Tiger · Post by **Tiger** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:53 am

Originally posted by Kaakao
Short answer, flame + infantry.

Yeah, Gary, I'd agree. A screen with Engineers, pop smoke, surround your ground pounders with mines, and wait for the monster!

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:02 am

What about large calibre HE and hope for a track hit to immobilize it, then smoke in front of it? I've only faced the K-1s and K-2s in MCLV and immobilization is what I try to go for.

I've got the same problem with Matilda II's right now in a N. Africa PBEM.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:24 am

Interesting subject. I just got done a PBEM game as the Russian and I had a couple of IS-4's. I had one up on some high ground and it got hit at least 12 times in one turn. I counted the shots with the VCR play back button. No, the tank was not destroyed but it was basically useless. I had no armement left on it, and it took me a couple of turns to rally it. All I could basically use it for was looking around.
Remember that they have very limited ammo, usually less then a dozen AP rounds. Make him take a lot of shots during your turn, low percentage shots of course. Even if he buys ammo trucks for them, their mobility is very limited, they should have a hard time keeping up to them unless he use the road. Target all ammo trucks.

G_X · Post by **G_X** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:36 am

Having fielded the IS-4 myself I have to agree with Jack, their lack of AP ammo is quite disconcerting, I found myself having to use a good bit of my points on ammo trucks to keep the IS-4's supplied, also, when they do get pounded, even though the outer shell gets beaten and is hard to kill, you shouldn't even bother except to get lots of hits on it and suppress it, I say use infantry that are dugin and when they see one to open up on it and pray that it gets suppressed enough to can bring something heavier to bear on it.

That's something I've found is amazingly useful really, I've routed some heavy tanks (Routed a Centurion during one game) and if you stop shooting once they become routed they stay that way till they can be rallyed, so that could give you time to get some guys with satchel charges or Anti-Tank mines over there.

Just my two cents on Tank-Busting.

Ivan · Post by **Ivan** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:12 pm

now this is funny...i always play with the russians, and for some very odd reason my friend nails my IS-4s from the front without any problems.
what i hate most with the russians is the crappy fire control...i once had 8 T-44s in one hex, my friend drives a flamethrower tank infront of them....they shoot aprox.20 shots at it, maybe 4 hit it, and it did not explode. after that time, ive been convinced that the russian tank training program must consist of herding cows into barns.

G_X · Post by **G_X** » Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:37 am

I've never had that problem, But that might be because I don't run my tanks forward as fast as possible and then try to shoot at moving targets (The moving of the T-44 would cut accuracy an incredible ammount, while the moving of the enemy tank farther than the Fire Control rating of the tank would also cause deep cuts in accuracy)

I have only seen a IS-4 be taken down by a strait front shot once.

That was a front hull hit by a King Tiger that was sitting perfectly still firing at a stationary IS-4 that was about 20 hexes away.

I suppose I just tend to keep my IS-4's where they'll do the most good, with my other troops.

Almost 75% of all my IS-4 losses have been from Mines, Infantry Assaults, and FlameThrowers.

Ivan · Post by **Ivan** » Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:29 pm

yeah see thats the diff. i like to play with the russians like they fought in real life. rush. i tend to load infantry on the decks of all my tanks, just rush for the victory hexes, deploy infantry in a defencive perimiter.

G_X · Post by **G_X** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 4:29 am

Rushing is a good way to get people killed, and a good way to lose.

I play the Soviets the way I've always seen and heard them talked about as being, they advance, yes, but as they advance, they support, This wasn't always easy, considering the fact that most Soviet units early in the war were lacking the trucks to keep their infantry near the front with their tanks.

I guess it's just me, but I can't think of any times where I've seen a historical battle report about how the russians just ran strait towards objectives, I know they did do massive assaults on hardened positions, using hundreds of men to just charge an enemy, but that's slightly different, especially where IS-4's are concerned.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:27 am

Originally posted by G_X
(...while the moving of the enemy tank farther than the Fire Control rating of the tank would also cause deep cuts in accuracy)

G/X: Are you suggesting that the Fire Control rating has a direct and meaningful relationship to a unit's ability to move a cerain number of hexes and still fire accurately? I just assumed that a higher number is better, not that that number actually had a greater significance. Please elaborate as this would be highly useful news to me. I know that if you move one hex (e.g. pop up from behind a hill) you have greater accuracy but I did not know you could easily see how far a unit can move and still have that good accuracy.

Thanks
Bob

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:37 am

Fire Control affects your ability to hit moving targets, Stabilizer (or whatever we call it now) affects your ability to fire and move. The stab ratings are 0 for a "mobile AT gun" like Archer, 1 for a turetless vehicle (Stug or Pnzjager), 2 is for a slow traversing turret, 3 is a "normal" turret, 4 is a fast traversing, 5 is fast ad somewhat stabilized turret.

G_X · Post by **G_X** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:48 am

Paul Clarified what I said.

And I had assumed it worked rather the same way range-finder did, For range finder there are certain "bands" of distance (100m, 500m, 1000m, 1500m, etc, though I don't think those are the right band numbers) And your fire control rating corresponds to which band (radiating outwards from the tank) the Tank's crew can successfully fire at without losing accuracy due to range.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:55 am

Thanks Paul. So these ratings are just relative, they do not indicate the number of hexes you can move and still have high accuracy, right?

After I posted my question, I went to the manual and found exactly what you said on page 61. It says nothing about using the ratings to determine how far you can move and still not suffer a penalty for movement. As I read it, rather, the ratings are used in some convoluted formula to determine a "to hit" %.

G_X · Post by **G_X** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:22 am

First...it's not how far YOU can move (That's stability and Paul explained that earlier...) Fire Control is how far the enemy can move, and it's still directly related to the movement and formula.

Why do I suddenly get the feeling that I'm being attacked for making a minor mistake? I guess it's just me, sorry rb, but it does seem to me you're being a little hostile in my direction, am I just imagining this?

Is-4

Is-4

Here's a Suggestion....

I agree with your advice but

Things could be a lot worse

Re: I agree with your advice but