Identify this #3 - Difficulty 4.5/10

[Fallschirmjager]

Hopefully this will go better than yesterdays! This one should not prove to be very difficult since I am giving you the entire ship and this ship also has some very unique characteristics like turret placement and turret design (that is your hint).
Name both the class of ship and if possible the name of this particular ship.
Enjoy!

[oldman45]

It looks to me like an Italian Navigatori class DD.

I have a soft spot for the Italian Navy, they sure designed some good looking ships.

[Chickenboy]

DD Nicolo' Zeno would be my 'guess'.

[ilovestrategy]

Did their navy ever leave the Mediterranean in that time period?

[scott64]

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Did their navy ever leave the Mediterranean in that time period?

A better question is: Did their navy leave port? [:'(][:D]

[Jonathan Pollard]

ORIGINAL: scott1964

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Did their navy ever leave the Mediterranean in that time period?

A better question is: Did their navy leave port? [:'(][:D]

Reminds me of the WW2 joke "The Royal Navy lived on rum and the American Navy on whiskey, but the Italians stuck to port".

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: scott1964

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Did their navy ever leave the Mediterranean in that time period?

A better question is: Did their navy leave port? [:'(][:D]

Stomach hurts.....cannot breathe......laughing...too...hard.....You......Jerk......[:D]

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

DD Nicolo' Zeno would be my 'guess'.

Yep you guys nailed this one quickly. The ship is the Regia Marina destroyer Nicolo' Zeno.
A fine looking ship.

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: scott1964

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Did their navy ever leave the Mediterranean in that time period?

A better question is: Did their navy leave port? [:'(][:D]

I used to have this misconception too until I did a lot of reading. The Italian navy did heavy battle with the British for three years and took heavy losses and inflicted heavy losses. Just for example, the class of destroyer in my OP was a class of twelve ships and only one survived the war.
The Italian navy was far far more active than the German or Austrian Hungarian navies of WW1 but for some reason draw a lot of abuse and derision. The Italians lost a lot of young men at sea during the war.

I dream of a day when Matrix announces they will make a Mediterranean theater game.

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

ORIGINAL: scott1964

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Did their navy ever leave the Mediterranean in that time period?

A better question is: Did their navy leave port? [:'(][:D]

I used to have this misconception too until I did a lot of reading. The Italian navy did heavy battle with the British for three years and took heavy losses and inflicted heavy losses. Just for example, the class of destroyer in my OP was a class of twelve ships and only one survived the war.
The Italian navy was far far more active than the German or Austrian Hungarian navies of WW1 but for some reason draw a lot of abuse and derision. The Italians lost a lot of young men at sea during the war.

I dream of a day when Matrix announces they will make a Mediterranean theater game.

Thanks for the info. [&o]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Did their navy ever leave the Mediterranean in that time period?

Warspite1

ilovestrategy, the Italian surface ships never left the Western Mediterranean thanks to the "Straits of Gibraltar being tighter than......"
No sorry this is a family forum - you will have to see Das Boot if you want to complete the sentence [:)]. However, Italian subs took part in the Battle of the Atlantic (to no great effect).

However, there was a naval force outside the Mediterranean, based in Italian East Africa and consisted of a small force under Rear-Admiral Balsamo. He had eight submarines, seven destroyers, two torpedo boats and a collection of smaller
craft.

There were plans (dreams) for a proper sized fleet to be based there during the inter-war years. The intention was that they could harrass the British shipping that went to/from the Suez Canal. Financial constraints meant that nothing came of this.

It was recognised that the fleet was simply too small to cause the British too much trouble - and certainly not for any length of time - as supplies of oil and ammunition would only be available to the fleet for about six months.

As it turned out, I don't think it lasted that long.....

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

ORIGINAL: scott1964

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Did their navy ever leave the Mediterranean in that time period?

A better question is: Did their navy leave port? [:'(][:D]

I used to have this misconception too until I did a lot of reading. The Italian navy did heavy battle with the British for three years and took heavy losses and inflicted heavy losses. Just for example, the class of destroyer in my OP was a class of twelve ships and only one survived the war.
The Italian navy was far far more active than the German or Austrian Hungarian navies of WW1 but for some reason draw a lot of abuse and derision. The Italians lost a lot of young men at sea during the war.

I dream of a day when Matrix announces they will make a Mediterranean theater game.

Warspite1

This is a view that O'Hara expresses.

Personally I think that with the ships available, and the extent to which the RN were stretched in that theatre, they could, and should, have done sooo much more. They were not aggressive enough considering they had faster, longer range ships that could dictate the battle.

[oldman45]

I am sure getting torpedoed in your home port might have put a damper on their enthusiasm at going out to meet the Brits. Getting bombed by your own planes when you were at sea had to be a little unsettling too [;)]

I agree they really should have given a better showing than they did, but there were a lot of factors involved and I think its unfair to label them. Besides, they had some of the best looking ships in the world, why would you want to take a chance with getting that paint ruined [:D]

[Terminus]

The Italian heavy forces were not very eager to join the fight and were largely unimportant in the general Med war. The Italian light forces, however, did a HUGE job.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Warspite1

I am sure getting torpedoed in your home port might have put a damper on their enthusiasm at going out to meet the Brits. Getting bombed by your own planes when you were at sea had to be a little unsettling too [;)]

No, Taranto probably didn't help the mindset! Imagine what we would have done with some decent aircraft and a decent number of aircraft in that attack..... Also, they were not the only navy to suffer a little blue on blue. Being smacked around by aircraft, was far far worse for the RN once X Fliegerkorps made their unwanted appearance though!

I agree they really should have given a better showing than they did, but there were a lot of factors involved and I think its unfair to label them.

I agree about the derogatory labels. Many Italian sailors fought well, and died for their country, same as any other nation. But that should not stop considered opinion about the RM's failings.

Besides, they had some of the best looking ships in the world, why would you want to take a chance with getting that paint ruined [:D]

Yep, they had some nice looking ships alright. Not as nice as the RN of course......one old girl in particular [;)]

[oldman45]

I see a little bias there perhaps [;)]

[Mistmatz]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
...

I dream of a day when Matrix announces they will make a Mediterranean theater game.

There was a mod for stock WitP covering the mediterranean theater. I think it was called "War in the Med", but I'm not sure how well it played out and if the focus was really on the naval batlles or the Afrika Korps?

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
I used to have this misconception too until I did a lot of reading. The Italian navy did heavy battle with the British for three years and took heavy losses and inflicted heavy losses. Just for example, the class of destroyer in my OP was a class of twelve ships and only one survived the war.
The Italian navy was far far more active than the German or Austrian Hungarian navies of WW1 but for some reason draw a lot of abuse and derision. The Italians lost a lot of young men at sea during the war.

I dream of a day when Matrix announces they will make a Mediterranean theater game.

I disagreed with some of O'Hara's views as he at times discredits the British too much while exonerating the Italians, (and then declares the USN was the real player) However then i read James Sadkovich's excellent book on the Italian navy and saw true bias. [:D] (still though....the book is excellent)

The Italians did better than they are credited for but the loss ratio in terms of major warships 'was' heavily skewed in the UK's favor. One of my disagreements with O'Hara and Sadkovich is that, particularily in the latter's case, big truck is made of the Italian navy's convoying to Libya and it's overall statistical success. All well and good but given that the UK's power to dominate the Central Med was problematic this is hardly suprising, nor was it easy to cut off Libya given the far different nature of Axis Med convoys (they tended to be extremely small...average size was 2 cargo ships vs. the mega NA convoys). The author also minimizes the impact of what cargos were lost or delayed on the NA campaign by burying the issue with raw statistics. It also ignores the fact that protection of those convoys were only one of several war goals, one of the other biggies was bringing the UK fleet to battle and driving it off. So for Sadkovich to assert that the Italian navy "did it's job" with no cavets was to me, as misleading as saying the Italians were cowards and never fought.

As always the truth is somewhere in between.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


I dream of a day when Matrix announces they will make a Mediterranean theater game.

You must have missed Conquest of the Aegean!

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


I dream of a day when Matrix announces they will make a Mediterranean theater game.

You must have missed Conquest of the Aegean!

I meant naval game