Is it worth bombing units ?

[Tzar007]

After putting myself in Bomb unit mode (F6) and try bombing a couple of enemy units, I've got to ask: is there any worth in doing so ? The casualties the enemy get are so minimal that it just seems a waste of fuel and missions that could be much more wisely used for direct ground support.

Anybody differ ? Are you bombing enemy units, and if so, in which circumstances ?

[cookie monster]

Its useful to drive up disruption in the bombed unit before launching your attack.

Higher disruption leads to less AV value.

Its similiar to a unit being overpowered on the third attack.

The prior two attacks drove up disruption into fatigue so high the unit become substanceally weaker.

[56ajax]

I havent seen any value in it; bomb a unit with say 30 bombers, kill 5....one of your units gets interdicted by say 2 fighter bombers and you lose 120.....waste of time....though I have read in a thread that bombing before ground attack adds to your attack...but this might just be anecdotal and not part of the game mechanics....

oh I see from the post above that it adds to the fatigue of the unit....is that mesurable?

[mmarquo]

Yes - it seems to work; if the face odds are marginal I try to soften up the defender with ground attacks - anecdotally it seems to work but I have no hard proof.

[entwood]

I still think it is a little under-powered myself.   I thought it was still being 'looked at' but have not heard anything about it in some time.

[56ajax]

I did a small test , bombed 2 SU divs in the RtL scenario...this doesnt quite simulate the game as I had to end turn to get measurable readings for Morale, Experience and Fatigue...Morale and Experience either stayed the same or increased, and Fatigue decreased....no change to fortification levels...

[cookie monster]

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

I did a small test , bombed 2 SU divs in the RtL scenario...this doesnt quite simulate the game as I had to end turn to get measurable readings for Morale, Experience and Fatigue...Morale and Experience either stayed the same or increased, and Fatigue decreased....no change to fortification levels...

The enemies attributes were probably changed during the logistics phases etc that run.

Without opening the manual and examining all the inter turn phases that run etc...

I dont think your gonna get a realistic indicator, plus the fatigue increase/decrease will probably vary per test.

Its effects are probably listed in the manual somewhere, but it's up to the OP to research.

[56ajax]

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

I did a small test , bombed 2 SU divs in the RtL scenario...this doesnt quite simulate the game as I had to end turn to get measurable readings for Morale, Experience and Fatigue...Morale and Experience either stayed the same or increased, and Fatigue decreased....no change to fortification levels...

The enemies attributes were probably changed during the logistics phases etc that run.

Without opening the manual and examining all the inter turn phases that run etc...

I dont think your gonna get a realistic indicator, plus the fatigue increase/decrease will probably vary per test.

Its effects are probably listed in the manual somewhere, but it's up to the OP to research.

Agree entirely.

As far as i can see the manual states that bombing can destroy/disrupt/damage ground elements and can reduce experience and morale...

From what i have experienced any advantage gained is not worth the time taken to push F6...

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

From what i have experienced any advantage gained is not worth the time taken to push F6...

My feeling is that it's only worthwhile to do against a unit that you know is going to be a hard fight. Something in good defensive position and a unit that probably is rested. And like Marquo, I have no hard evidence that it matters at all.

I rarely do it. Maybe 5 times in the 1941 scenario.

There are so many more worthwhile things to do with your air units. As someone else said: interdiction seems to be leaps and bounds more effective, so why fly air miles when you can save the air group's fatigue and simply let the more efficient (by combat effect and by interface efficiency) interdiction routines do a better job.

My feeling is that you're far better off flying a mission against an enemy airfield, if there's one in range. It has a higher payoff.

[cpt flam]

as soviet only possible use of U2VS (biplane) is to do night harassment
even loosing planes is not real problem you get so much
my best targets are HQ to get ART [8D]

[Tarhunnas]

Bombing units do not show damage, but allegedly there are disruption effects. I use it when I have a really important attack and cannot bring up the odds any other way. In my experience, a couple of bombings will improve the chances of retreating the enemy.

[Scook_99]

My friend and I both agree if the CV odds are close to what you need for a retreat, bombing does make a difference. Anecdotal evidence, I had an attack near Leningrad after bombing with 88 JU-88's my odds were 2.3:1, and the CV numbers were slightly less than 2:1. I forgot to save what I was doing, so I when loaded it up again, I had to attack again, forgot to bomb, and my attack went out as 1.7:1. Yes, because of game engine there is a lot of variables so the bombing may not have done a thing. We still feel if you need someplace and you can muster a decent bombing raid (50+ bombers) it is worth doing.

[Templer_12]

I have already, from the beginning asked the question.
My answer: No!

Hans-Ulrich Rudel was the most highly decorated German serviceman of WWII.
A JU 87 Stuka dive bomber pilot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel

Rudel flew more the 2500 combat missions then claiming a more of 2000 targets destroyed.
Of which about 800 vehicles, 520 tanks, 150 artillery pieces and much more (trains, bridges, enemy aircraft and ships).

Once, in two days he destroyed 26 tanks and several other motorized vehicles! (Himself - of course!) [X(]

Hans-Ulrich Rudel was also called "Panzerknacker" (engl. tank buster).

I do not think GGWitE reflects such operations correctly! [:(]
60 or more JU 87 attack enemy units and how many afv will be destroyed?

Very bad! [:(]

[randallw]

I tend to bomb with night missions; i'm not even sure if the manual states that night bombing is much much less effective than day bombing, or just a little bit less, or if it's even the same ( which wouldn't make sense but blah blah blah ).
 
The casualties listed from bombing may just be destroyed elements, with some elements damaged but not part of what shows on the screen.

[JocMeister]

I once bombed the Das Reich with 2600 IL-2. The result was 18 dead soldiers and a destroyed arty so my answer would be "no".

[Omat]

Hello

If you want to see an effect than take the massage lvl 7. You can better see what the bombing did.

here is a quote from Helpless

It is not 0. When you bomb unit the biggest part of effect goes to disruption. Disruption has direct effect on combat effectiveness. Also after the battle disruption is converting to fatigue and damage. Damaged elements can easily get destroyed in case of no support and low experience, but this happens next logistic phase. So it is not 0, but it is not visible immediately.

My expirence are for night bombing
- do not bomb tank units which may have high aa support or like units which are attched to tank`s corps..than you don not often hit something and you have high losses
- attack with many units one single (inf) target..I use 2-4 NBAP as Soviet for one target
- use massage lvl 7 to see the result

I use day attacks not so often because I think interdiction is more useful.

Omat

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Templer

I have already, from the beginning asked the question.
My answer: No!

Hans-Ulrich Rudel was the most highly decorated German serviceman of WWII.
A JU 87 Stuka dive bomber pilot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel

Rudel flew more the 2500 combat missions then claiming a more of 2000 targets destroyed.
Of which about 800 vehicles, 520 tanks, 150 artillery pieces and much more (trains, bridges, enemy aircraft and ships).

Once, in two days he destroyed 26 tanks and several other motorized vehicles! (Himself - of course!) [X(]

Hans-Ulrich Rudel was also called "Panzerknacker" (engl. tank buster).

I do not think GGWitE reflects such operations correctly! [:(]
60 or more JU 87 attack enemy units and how many afv will be destroyed?

Very bad! [:(]

Rudels record is mostly according to himself, and is usually regarded as highly exaggerated, so I wouldn't suggest using it as a model for how things work in a wargame. The Rudel article in Wikipedia is hagiographic, to say the least. There has been a Rudel debate on the forum already.

I think what Rudel did is simulated by ground support in the game and not bombing.

Edit: Found the previous Rudel debate: tm.asp?m=2791303

[mmarquo]

"I do not think GGWitE reflects such operations correctly! [:(] "
 
Why in the world would a division level game be weighed down with a rule to accommodate the self reported heroics of one individual on the Eastern Front???
 
Really??
 
Marquo [>:]
 

[Ketza]

I have found bombing units "uses up" a lot of planes and typically can only be done once on a hex for mimimal results.

[cookie monster]

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"I do not think GGWitE reflects such operations correctly! [:(] "

Why in the world would a division level game be weighed down with a rule.....

Agreed.