Accurate Machine Guns

JuanKilo · Post by **JuanKilo** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 12:33 pm

Are my machine gunners one eyed?? Half wits? Did they all attend the Ray Charles MG Academy? I noticed this problem with most machine guns, experienced or not, they just shoot like old ladies run. Not to well. I'm curious as to how, and where exactly do I edit them, so they can actually shoot.

For the last month, I've been playing Lost Victories, and keeping pace with latest scenarios that are around. None of these MGs shoot to kill. I don't mean MGs on tanks. I mean Medium MGs, and Heavy MGs. Any tips what attribute and numbers to adjust to?

umm...Matrix dudes, don't get the wrong idea by my lil rant above, been playing SPWaW since version 2. This game is outstanding! One of my top 3 for the past 4 years? LOL

Orzel Bialy · Post by **Orzel Bialy** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:57 pm

When creating scenarios that I want to be "tough" I have toyed with the experience points of the unit in question....and the range they will open fire at.
The higher the experience points...the better results you will get from a given unit on the batttlefield. As they gain battlefield know-how ( and morale ) they become more deadily...just like real life.
As for the range...knock off a couple hexes on their engagement range. You don't want to bring it down to rifle range of course...but lower it just a bit until they get some more experience under their belts...then you can raise the factors back up.
Another thing to remember is terrain will have an effect on your MG fire too. Clear ground will result in a good spread effect...while grass and woods give the enemy some cover to utilize....so your fire will not be as effective.

Warning:
Now, with this said the only thing you want to be careful about is tinkering with the points too much (especially morale points). Jack them too high and you get a "super-unit" that cuts everything to shreds...and the reality factor suffers.

Hope this helps...perhaps others will have more information.

Hades · Post by **Hades** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 9:38 pm

I rarely se mgs not kill someone, if you set them up right. I have noticed that smaller rounds like 30cal get more kills than say 50cal. Why is that?

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 9:50 pm

I have always heard that the .50, with it's slower,distinctive sound and heavy, cover-ripping rounds was more of a morale intimidator. The .30 actually threw out more lead. Maybe that's factored in somehow. Course you can't take out a HT nearly as well, but we're talking about effects on people, not machines.

Hades · Post by **Hades** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 10:22 pm

It think, I am proabbly wrong, that the US 30 and 50cal fired 600rpm, while the MG42 fired 1200rpm. Or maybe its 300prm to 600prm. All Im sure of is that the US mgs fired half the speed of the MG42.

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 10:26 pm

I know that there enough ex-(and current) GI types that can better answer this than me, but I don't think the .50 had as high a ROF as the 30. Supposedly, the ROF on the MG42 was so high that it was hard to distinguish individual reports as they were so close together it almost sounded like someone was tearing a piece of paper rapidly.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 11:35 pm

My game experience is that the US .50 cal causes more casualties than the .30 cal. (Certainly the quad .50 does!

) Go figure...

I think I saw on the History Channel that the sound of the MG42 was so scarry to the troops that the US started to use them in training (or something like that) to condition the soldiers that it wasn't as terrible as it seemed/sounded.

It would be nice to have a real MG42 sound effect in the game. It's an awesome thing!

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 11:40 pm

I think I saw that same special. Hey did you catch the battleline series show on Tiger Assaults (think that was the name, know it was about Tigers.) that was on the night before last. Well night before last in Dallas anyway. It's a must see if you didn't.

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 11:41 pm

If you save you MG's for targets that are moving, you will notice superb kill results. If the infantry is running and in the open, so much the better. <BEG>

However, once the target has stopped moving or has received some suppression, you will notice the MG is less effective at scoring casualties. But the suppression counts for keeping the target's head down.

Worse, if the target is in rough ground or worse still is dug in, your weapons will have even less effect.

The best use of MG's IMO is to strip tank riders from their tanks. You will almost always score a casualty if you can hit the tank and the infantry will remain suppressed for some time. This allows your unsuspecting opponent to foolishly advance his unsupported tanks towards your anti-tank defenses. This tactic also works against motorised infantry but the truck usually will not survive being hit by a MG burst.

IMHO the ratings for MG's are good enough.

Thomas D Curry · Post by **Thomas D Curry** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:14 am

My 2 cents on US .30 cal and .50 cal. What I remember about the WWII era .50 which is different from the current Ma duece is it did have a slow sustained rate of fire I believe it was 450 RPM (that is a guess do not feel like digging for manuals) while the .30 cal had upwards of around 750 RPM and did spray its rounds out. I do not know if they factor spread of rounds if so the Bren gun is going to be terrible as they fired a tight group of rounds but I digress. The only other thing I remember about the .50 is it could punch just about an inch of armour at 800-1,000 yards. And yes I am an ex army type.

JuanKilo · Post by **JuanKilo** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:34 am

Some good replies, and to those who did I thank you for your input.

Major Destruction, I do use my MG crews as a defensive force. But, my point is, during the computers move, when the MG crews have both weapons loaded, and at a range of 5-6 hexes, they get 1 kill usually, or 2 at best. To me this seems inadequate. Especially when the terrain is open, and the computer doesn't know where the MG crew is.

I also play World War II Online. I'm sure you've all heard of it, and how it has some problems, but I really enjoy it, even on my 56K connection. They've made some great updates in the last 4 months. In there, we have the A13, and the Matilda for British armor. When an Opal with infantry trys to zoom past, the MGs on the A13, and the Matty, mow the truck down, and as long as you can see the infantry, they all die too. Usually this is done from a defensive stance. Moving and firing on target is another ordeal. LOL At this point in the game, we don't have a heavy or medium MG that is playable. We do have fixed MGs, known as artifical intelligence, that is bloody hard to get by.

I have noticed that MG crews in SPWaW, that are veterans in campaigns, have somewhat better kill ratios.

War is Hell, I'll live with it, as I have thus far.

Heide · Post by **Heide** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:01 pm

Originally posted by Jim1954
I know that there enough ex-(and current) GI types that can better answer this than me, but I don't think the .50 had as high a ROF as the 30. Supposedly, the ROF on the MG42 was so high that it was hard to distinguish individual reports as they were so close together it almost sounded like someone was tearing a piece of paper rapidly.

Well, I've fired the MG-42, so I can say that it does sound like a ripping noise, it's quite impressive.

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:28 pm

Where did you get a chance to do that?

Gary Tatro · Post by **Gary Tatro** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:45 pm

Instead of buying MG's or platoons that come with MG's I try to but just infantry platoons. Then I purchase AAMG's. These have no problems ripping infantry or aircraft or half tracks apart all the way out to 20 hexes. Usually with only one or two shots. It is really quite satisfying to see infantry disapear after one shot.

Heide · Post by **Heide** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:38 pm

The gun club I belong has an annual "Machine Gun Shoot" every May, where FFL dealers bring their selection of wares and you can shoot whatever you like - for a price.

So when I saw the MG42, I made a beeline for that sucker.

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:42 pm

I can certainly think of worse ways to spend a Saturday. Sounds like a hoot.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 10:39 pm

Gary, I agree with you about the AAMGs. I only recently stumbled upon this when, for some reason the rarity gremlin decided I was not entitled to any .30 cal or .50 cal MGs. So I bought a couple AAMGs and boy do they do the trick. They are a bit slower and have a little less ammo but that's OK. I took out a German AC at 20 hexes with one of those (not to mention the infantry, scouts and MC squads). I think they have higher range finder ratings than the regular MGs (I think).

Gary Tatro · Post by **Gary Tatro** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 10:58 pm

Originally posted by rbrunsman
Gary, I agree with you about the AAMGs. I only recently stumbled upon this when, for some reason the rarity gremlin decided I was not entitled to any .30 cal or .50 cal MGs. So I bought a couple AAMGs and boy do they do the trick. They are a bit slower and have a little less ammo but that's OK. I took out a German AC at 20 hexes with one of those (not to mention the infantry, scouts and MC squads). I think they have higher range finder ratings than the regular MGs (I think).

Yes they do have higher ranger finder rating and usually higher fire control ratings. You should try out the Quad 50 AAmg. Cost like 34 points and does so much more damage than a German SS MMG.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:32 pm

Yeah, I just used the quad .50 for the first time this week in that same PBEM I mentioned before. 9 casualties on the first shot from a range of ~8!!:eek:

I'm going to be scared to death the first time someone pulls one of those out against me.

Those things should be banned by the Geneva Convention for use against anything on the ground.

Thomas D Curry · Post by **Thomas D Curry** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 12:57 am

Actually .50 cals are outlawed against the use of personnel only against equipment. So I shoot at weapons, steel pots, web gear etc. Of course they were outlawed after either WWII or Korea not sure. Not that it stoppped them from being used in Vietnam

Accurate Machine Guns

Accurate Machine Guns

How to Make your units more Lethal...

Well this is what I do.