Manipulating US Entry
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
- Red Prince
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- Location: Bangor, Maine, USA
Manipulating US Entry
Recently, we have been making an effort to clean up the Players Manual. We've been fixing errors and improving clarity. The text below is the introduction to a good-sized section (a very useful section, I think) that offers some advice to players who have little or no experience with the board game.
With the complexity of WiF, we can't try to have the manual act as a strategy guide, too, or the finished product might run to thousands of pages! [:)] It has been suggested that a place in this section be given to strategies that directly impact US Entry. I'd like to ask you what you consider to be the "do's" and "don'ts" on the topic, both as the USA when picking, placing and moving chits, and as the Axis and/or Allies when taking actions that might effect US Entry.
Remember, as it says in the paragraphs below, this is aimed at getting new players started. I don't object to anyone telling about advanced or experimental tactics they like to use, but please try to include a few basic tactics, too.
Thanks for your input. It will help a lot. [&o]
3.4 Important Decisions
The sole purpose of this section is to help new players avoid making common mistakes, especially in the
early turns, that result in a game being irretrievably lost. This advice comes from several experienced players and
should be taken seriously, but without relying on it blindly. As an MWIF game progresses, through its many twists
and turns, you are likely to encounter situations where following some of these suggestions would be counterproductive.
If you want to play WIF well, then you must play it well at the strategic, operational, and tactical levels. The
advice in this section spans all three. Strategic advice is in section 3.4.9 covering production. Tactical advice is in
sections 3.4.4, 3.4.5, 3.4.6, and 3.4.7, on using HQs and armor, and engaging in combat in the air, on land, and at sea.
The greatest amount of advice concerns operational considerations, in sections 3.4.1, 3.4.2, 3.4.3, and 3.4.8. Those
sections provide an insight into the thinking of experienced players on choosing which action type to take for each
major power, when to commit air units during a turn, how to deploy your naval units, and deciding when and which
units to reorganize during a turn.
To maximize your benefits from these sections, you should try to “see things” the way experienced players
do. Pay attention to their vocabulary (e.g., sea-lift, air superiority, reorganization points). Indeed, if a word strikes
you as unusual, it has probably fallen into common usage among WIF players because it describes something
important, that happens frequently during games. Lastly, there has been a lot written about how to play WIF. To
explore farther, you might want to start with the player notes in RAW Section 24 for each major power in each
scenario.
With the complexity of WiF, we can't try to have the manual act as a strategy guide, too, or the finished product might run to thousands of pages! [:)] It has been suggested that a place in this section be given to strategies that directly impact US Entry. I'd like to ask you what you consider to be the "do's" and "don'ts" on the topic, both as the USA when picking, placing and moving chits, and as the Axis and/or Allies when taking actions that might effect US Entry.
Remember, as it says in the paragraphs below, this is aimed at getting new players started. I don't object to anyone telling about advanced or experimental tactics they like to use, but please try to include a few basic tactics, too.
Thanks for your input. It will help a lot. [&o]
3.4 Important Decisions
The sole purpose of this section is to help new players avoid making common mistakes, especially in the
early turns, that result in a game being irretrievably lost. This advice comes from several experienced players and
should be taken seriously, but without relying on it blindly. As an MWIF game progresses, through its many twists
and turns, you are likely to encounter situations where following some of these suggestions would be counterproductive.
If you want to play WIF well, then you must play it well at the strategic, operational, and tactical levels. The
advice in this section spans all three. Strategic advice is in section 3.4.9 covering production. Tactical advice is in
sections 3.4.4, 3.4.5, 3.4.6, and 3.4.7, on using HQs and armor, and engaging in combat in the air, on land, and at sea.
The greatest amount of advice concerns operational considerations, in sections 3.4.1, 3.4.2, 3.4.3, and 3.4.8. Those
sections provide an insight into the thinking of experienced players on choosing which action type to take for each
major power, when to commit air units during a turn, how to deploy your naval units, and deciding when and which
units to reorganize during a turn.
To maximize your benefits from these sections, you should try to “see things” the way experienced players
do. Pay attention to their vocabulary (e.g., sea-lift, air superiority, reorganization points). Indeed, if a word strikes
you as unusual, it has probably fallen into common usage among WIF players because it describes something
important, that happens frequently during games. Lastly, there has been a lot written about how to play WIF. To
explore farther, you might want to start with the player notes in RAW Section 24 for each major power in each
scenario.
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH
-Lazarus Long, RAH
- marcbarker
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
As never having played this game but several others. The concept from one game to the next is winning and enjoy the game. Please don't get lost in the details so much where you lose the fun of the game. It is one thing to tell someone how to play the game and another on how they actually play it. Lay out the mechanics of game play by all means and top level strategy but leave the actual stragum up to the player to devlope their oen style, their own Patton syndrome. I will now take comments of the air
Marc
Marc
games:
1. AGEOD Blue and Gray
2. John Tiller's Battleground Series
3. Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
4. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
5. V for Victory Games
6. Silent Hunter III
7. Silent Hunter IV
8. Rise and Fall of the Third Re
1. AGEOD Blue and Gray
2. John Tiller's Battleground Series
3. Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
4. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
5. V for Victory Games
6. Silent Hunter III
7. Silent Hunter IV
8. Rise and Fall of the Third Re
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
The US Entry rules are quite diverse, with decisions made by all players affecting when the US enters the war. For new players, it is a brand new concept (personally, I haven't seen anything comparable in other war games). Like several other elements of WIF, understanding US Entry therefore presents a fairly steep learning curve for new players.ORIGINAL: barker
As never having played this game but several others. The concept from one game to the next is winning and enjoy the game. Please don't get lost in the details so much where you lose the fun of the game. It is one thing to tell someone how to play the game and another on how they actually play it. Lay out the mechanics of game play by all means and top level strategy but leave the actual stragum up to the player to devlope their oen style, their own Patton syndrome. I will now take comments of the air
Marc
The general response from new players at first reading about US Entry is: Huh?[&:] What's this all about?[&:] How paranoid should I be as the Axis about the US entering the war in 1940?[&:] How paranoid should I be as the Allied player about the US not entering the war until 1944?[&:] I need to make decisions right at the start of the game about US Entry (before any units have been placed on the map) and I don't have a clue what to do![:(]
The intent of creating a new section on US Entry in the Players Manual is to provide some guidance. Since a comprehensive analysis of how to handle US Entry decisions when playing the game would require ~100 pages and provoke many angry discussions about who is right and who is wrong, providing a page of advice isn't going to "drain the enjoyment" of this aspect of the game from anyone.
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
Perfection is an elusive goal.
- Joseignacio
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
True, although I am a "veteran" this is one of my weak points, it makes me have doubts all the time...
-
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- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:10 pm
RE: Manipulating US Entry
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
True, although I am a "veteran" this is one of my weak points, it makes me have doubts all the time...
I have the opposite problem. I have no doubts, even when I probably should have, and generally only plan around U.S. entry to the level of, "wait, if I do this, I'll go into negative chits and we can't get a DoW. No attack Persia on the second turn". I really ought to have a mind for it.
One thing I will say though; the DoW itself isn't as important as you might think. The U.S's real power is in its production. Those gear-ups are all important, and I'm worried (as the axis) if the U.S. starts getting those early and lending Bps to everyone; sometimes more than when they start building up a green flood.
"When beset by danger,
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
- composer99
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
A lot of US entry discussion has gone on in the US AIO thread (the sticky thread with the AI links is sooo helpful!).
For the US player's perspective, I would boil it down to three basic principles:
(1) The US player needs to know how to correctly manipulate the US entry and tension pools to achieve the desired result (joining the war)
(2) The US player needs to know how to manage the other Allies with regards to their aggressive actions
(3) The US player needs to know how to manipulate the Axis powers (particularly Japan) with regards to their aggressive actions
From the perspective of other players, the following are the basic things they should know:
(1) For the Axis, what the worrisome signs to look for are that a US DoW might be imminent, and whether or not to pre-emptively DoW the US
(2) For the Allies, how to manage their aggressive behaviour to balance accomplishing important local/theatre objectives with the delays imposed on US entry
So, a treatment on US entry as a bare-bones basic guide would use three sections:
(1) Extending the mechanics explained in RAC to advise new players (e.g. how many chits to allocate to which Entry pool at the start of the game, when to pick options or back off, that sort of thing)
(2) US/Allied advice with regards to US entry and overall Allied strategy
(3) US/Axis advice with regards to US entry and its effect on Axis behaviour
For the US player's perspective, I would boil it down to three basic principles:
(1) The US player needs to know how to correctly manipulate the US entry and tension pools to achieve the desired result (joining the war)
(2) The US player needs to know how to manage the other Allies with regards to their aggressive actions
(3) The US player needs to know how to manipulate the Axis powers (particularly Japan) with regards to their aggressive actions
From the perspective of other players, the following are the basic things they should know:
(1) For the Axis, what the worrisome signs to look for are that a US DoW might be imminent, and whether or not to pre-emptively DoW the US
(2) For the Allies, how to manage their aggressive behaviour to balance accomplishing important local/theatre objectives with the delays imposed on US entry
So, a treatment on US entry as a bare-bones basic guide would use three sections:
(1) Extending the mechanics explained in RAC to advise new players (e.g. how many chits to allocate to which Entry pool at the start of the game, when to pick options or back off, that sort of thing)
(2) US/Allied advice with regards to US entry and overall Allied strategy
(3) US/Axis advice with regards to US entry and its effect on Axis behaviour
~ Composer99
- Red Prince
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
This is a good start, but what I'm actually hoping for is multiple perspectives on the specifics. For example, a lot of people (and the scenarios booklet) suggest that both initial chits shouls go in the Ge/It Entry Pool. Do people agree with this? Do they have other ideas? And why?ORIGINAL: composer99
A lot of US entry discussion has gone on in the US AIO thread (the sticky thread with the AI links is sooo helpful!).
For the US player's perspective, I would boil it down to three basic principles:
(1) The US player needs to know how to correctly manipulate the US entry and tension pools to achieve the desired result (joining the war)
(2) The US player needs to know how to manage the other Allies with regards to their aggressive actions
(3) The US player needs to know how to manipulate the Axis powers (particularly Japan) with regards to their aggressive actions
From the perspective of other players, the following are the basic things they should know:
(1) For the Axis, what the worrisome signs to look for are that a US DoW might be imminent, and whether or not to pre-emptively DoW the US
(2) For the Allies, how to manage their aggressive behaviour to balance accomplishing important local/theatre objectives with the delays imposed on US entry
So, a treatment on US entry as a bare-bones basic guide would use three sections:
(1) Extending the mechanics explained in RAC to advise new players (e.g. how many chits to allocate to which Entry pool at the start of the game, when to pick options or back off, that sort of thing)
(2) US/Allied advice with regards to US entry and overall Allied strategy
(3) US/Axis advice with regards to US entry and its effect on Axis behaviour
So, while I agree with the structure you've laid out for what needs to be topmost on the mind of the various players, I want to hear what the players should actually be thinking about. How do you "correctly manipulate" entry? How do you "manage the allies"? How do you "manipulate Japan"? And how do others do it? Etc.
There are several reasons I'd like to hear people's opinions. I haven't played the board game, and while I understand the theory, I'm lacking in long-term experience. I'd like a number of perspectives before I attempt to consolidate them into a single-page summation for new players. I'll also admit that I'm a bit lazy/busy. I would prefer not having to search the AI thread just for entry discussions.
Don't worry about saying too much or too little. Just tell it as you see it. Thanks.
-Aaron
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH
-Lazarus Long, RAH
- composer99
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
OK, I'll take a stab at a few points. There are references to RAC below which I have left undefined because I don't know the section numbering.
Also, being a longtime WiF:FE over-the-board player, I have continued to refer to entry markers as chits since I cannot at this time recall the terminology used for MWiF.
Entry Chit Distribution
Initial Entry Chit Allocation
At the start of the Global War scenario, the US player has three (3) entry chits to distribute between the entry pools (in all other scenarios the US takes part in, entry chit distribution is either fixed or the US is in the war). It is customary to allocate 2 or 3 of these to the European (Germany/Italy) entry pool, on account of the high Allied activity early in the war in Europe. As the US player, you know that Germany must declare war on Poland to open the game, and the Commonwealth (CW) and France must declare war on Germany. Typically, these actions will cancel each other's chit draws out. What tips the balance is that, barring misfortune or poor play on the part of the German player, the USSR is usually obliged to occupy East Poland on the first turn as well, which results in a chit loss 70% of the time.
Other common entry-related activities in the European theatre on the first turn of the game are a German invasion of Denmark, Axis aggression in the Balkans, Italy going to war against the CW & France (or vice-versa), USSR occupation of the Baltic states, USSR land claims vs. Rumania and/or Finland (although if Germany accepts a claim there is no US entry effect), Allied aggression in the Middle East, and even (in the case of very aggressive Axis play or prolonged good weather) Axis aggression in the Low Countries (Netherlands Belgium). Since the chit losses for aggressive Allied (and especially USSR) behaviour are more significant than chit gains for aggressive Axis behaviour, having more chits allocated to the European entry pool means that the US can cope with the higher activity in this theatre during this early period.
By contrast, unless the Allies have planned an early aggression against Japan, all of the entry actions affecting the Japan pool are aggressive actions by Japan, and this activity in the early game is relatively slow-paced. An initial allotment of 0-1 chits in the Japan entry pool means the US will usually have 1-2 chits in the pool by the time the first US entry phase rolls around.
US Entry Phase Chit Allocation
While chits generated by other powers' US entry actions are allocated according to the rules, during the US entry phase, you as the US player select one or more chits and allocates them to either a specified entry pool (for example, once Japan declares war on the Commonwealth, you draw one extra chit per turn which is automatically allocated to the Japan entry pool) or to a pool of your choice.
When you have discretion to choose the pool to which a drawn chit shall be allocated, you will either want to bolster the pool with fewer chits or lower entry value, or you will want to bolster a pool pertaining to a key option you wish to pass (for example, option #30 (Lend-Lease to USSR) or option #36 (Commonwealth reinforces Pacific).
When to Play Options
As a general rule, the two most important US entry options are option #22 (Gear Up) and option #34 (War Appropriations), which improve US production. As you will recall, both options are generic options, meaning you must have entry totals for both the Europe and the Japan pools equal to the entry option number, and tension totals in both pools equal to one-half the entry option number.
Gear Up (US Entry Option #22)
Given how entry and tension are calculated in each pool (see RAC X.XX), the simplest means of meeting the requirements for option #22 is to have chits whose individual values sum up to 11 in each entry pool and 5.5 in each tension pool (since chits have whole number values only, this typically means a split of 5-6 in chit values).
War Appropriations (US Entry Option #34)
Given how entry and tension are calculated in each pool (see RAC X.XX), the simplest means of meeting the requirements for option #34 is to have chits whose individual values sum up to 17 in each entry pool and 8.5 in each tension pool (since chits have whole number values only, this typically means a split of 8-9 in chit values). You must also, ocourse, have chosen option #22 in a previous turn.
Choosing Options
The general pattern you will want to adhere to is to choose options with the intent of generating tension until you have enough tension to meet your tension requirements for whichever of the above option you are working towards, and then build up entry until you can pick the option. So, given the ability to pick any two options, you will usually want to pick the one with the highest chance of generating tension.
If you pick an option against a particular major power group (Germany/Italy or Japan) and do not generate tension, you can pick a second option against that major power group. It might be useful, knowing this, to choose in advance two options you will be eligible to pick, and when the US entry phase comes around, pick the higher-entry option first. This ensures if you generate tension, you will still be able to select the lower-entry option if you get a poor chit draw in a subsequent turn.
Finally, one of the most interesting entry options is option #26 (Relocate fleet to Pearl Harbour). Not only does this allow you to base naval combat units in Pearl Harbour, but as long as your fleet based there meets the requirements outlined in RAC X.XX you can adjust the probability of generating tension when picking US entry options which are Japan-specific. Given the typically lower tension probabilities of the lower-entry Japan-specific options, it is not unheard of for US players to build up entry to relocate the fleet before picking many Japan-specific options, although it is hardly obligatory given the discretion the US has in choosing tension when picking generic options.
Other Players & US Entry
While only the US player is eligible to view the US entry and tension chits at all times, other players may view such chits as the US player cares to reveal when playing US entry options (subject to the requirement that the revealed chits show the US player meets the required entry or tension values). The US player can also communicate real or deceptive signals about his or her entry values, and must keep entry values (and size of chit pools) in mind when discussing strategy with the other Allies. There is no rule against the US player announcing entry or tension values to any other player, [personal opinion ahead] although it is not common behaviour.
Allied Powers & US Entry
In some respects, the other Allies must take US entry into account when planning their overall strategies and specific acts of aggression following from them to a greater extent than the Axis powers. This is largely because the other Allies want the US in the war sooner rather than later, or at the very least they want lent resources & build points from the US (the more, the better). Where the other Allies intend to engage in aggressive behaviour, they and the US player should agree on when it will occur so the US can be prepared. For example, if the other Allies intend to engage in an aggressive anti-Japan campaign early on, the US would make an exception to the typical initial chit distribution and bulk up the Japan entry pool (although this, along with Allied set-up, tends to telegraph the Allies' intent).
The stiffer penalty for Allied aggression, and the knock-on effects of delayed US gear ups and entry into the war, means that the Allies should be able to justify aggressive acts beyond reasonable doubt: if the USSR wants to make a land claim, they should arrange it such that denial of the claim is very unappealing; if the Allies want to knock over a minor country such as Portugal or Persia, they should be arrange for it to be done swiftly before Axis intervention can gum up the works; if the CW wants to declare war on Italy, the benefits of the surprise impulse and getting the jump on the Italians should outweigh by a substantial margin the costs of being declared war on; and so on and so forth. This is not to say that the Allies should never engage in aggressive behaviour, for often there is much to be gained.
Axis Powers and US Entry
The Axis should generally not allow US entry considerations to affect their strategies and behaviour too much. If the spectre of US entry into the war is too great a deterrent against Axis aggression, the Axis may find they have not expanded their economies & defensive perimeters or weakened the other Allies sufficiently early on in the game, leaving them in a much weaker position once the US does join the war and the other Allies have built up their forces.
However, the Axis cannot simply ignore US entry. Just as delays in US gear ups or entry into the war impose significant penalties on US production, unusual acceleration of US gear ups or entry increases the overall Allied production advantage. If the US enters the war too quickly, even if the Axis have made significant gains up until that point, they may find themsevles unable to consolidate their position and be crushed by the landslide of American military power.
Assuming the US player does not provide any hints through communication, the Axis must go by US entry option plays to divine American intentions and entry values, and respond to key option plays to scale their aggressive behaviour up or down as required. The Japanese player, for example, must usually begin preparations for the wider Pacific War no later than once the US player passes option #26 (Fleet to Pearl), and (particularly when playing with an oil rule) must be ready to begin the Pacific War shortly after option #36 (Oil Embargo) is passed. The Axis as a whole must be ready to either declare war on the US or expect (attempted) declarations of war once the US player has passed option #34 (War Appropriations). Timing will depend on the Axis players' temperaments and the US player's tolerance of risk (namely, the risk of failing at an attempt declare war).
Also, being a longtime WiF:FE over-the-board player, I have continued to refer to entry markers as chits since I cannot at this time recall the terminology used for MWiF.
Entry Chit Distribution
Initial Entry Chit Allocation
At the start of the Global War scenario, the US player has three (3) entry chits to distribute between the entry pools (in all other scenarios the US takes part in, entry chit distribution is either fixed or the US is in the war). It is customary to allocate 2 or 3 of these to the European (Germany/Italy) entry pool, on account of the high Allied activity early in the war in Europe. As the US player, you know that Germany must declare war on Poland to open the game, and the Commonwealth (CW) and France must declare war on Germany. Typically, these actions will cancel each other's chit draws out. What tips the balance is that, barring misfortune or poor play on the part of the German player, the USSR is usually obliged to occupy East Poland on the first turn as well, which results in a chit loss 70% of the time.
Other common entry-related activities in the European theatre on the first turn of the game are a German invasion of Denmark, Axis aggression in the Balkans, Italy going to war against the CW & France (or vice-versa), USSR occupation of the Baltic states, USSR land claims vs. Rumania and/or Finland (although if Germany accepts a claim there is no US entry effect), Allied aggression in the Middle East, and even (in the case of very aggressive Axis play or prolonged good weather) Axis aggression in the Low Countries (Netherlands Belgium). Since the chit losses for aggressive Allied (and especially USSR) behaviour are more significant than chit gains for aggressive Axis behaviour, having more chits allocated to the European entry pool means that the US can cope with the higher activity in this theatre during this early period.
By contrast, unless the Allies have planned an early aggression against Japan, all of the entry actions affecting the Japan pool are aggressive actions by Japan, and this activity in the early game is relatively slow-paced. An initial allotment of 0-1 chits in the Japan entry pool means the US will usually have 1-2 chits in the pool by the time the first US entry phase rolls around.
US Entry Phase Chit Allocation
While chits generated by other powers' US entry actions are allocated according to the rules, during the US entry phase, you as the US player select one or more chits and allocates them to either a specified entry pool (for example, once Japan declares war on the Commonwealth, you draw one extra chit per turn which is automatically allocated to the Japan entry pool) or to a pool of your choice.
When you have discretion to choose the pool to which a drawn chit shall be allocated, you will either want to bolster the pool with fewer chits or lower entry value, or you will want to bolster a pool pertaining to a key option you wish to pass (for example, option #30 (Lend-Lease to USSR) or option #36 (Commonwealth reinforces Pacific).
When to Play Options
As a general rule, the two most important US entry options are option #22 (Gear Up) and option #34 (War Appropriations), which improve US production. As you will recall, both options are generic options, meaning you must have entry totals for both the Europe and the Japan pools equal to the entry option number, and tension totals in both pools equal to one-half the entry option number.
Gear Up (US Entry Option #22)
Given how entry and tension are calculated in each pool (see RAC X.XX), the simplest means of meeting the requirements for option #22 is to have chits whose individual values sum up to 11 in each entry pool and 5.5 in each tension pool (since chits have whole number values only, this typically means a split of 5-6 in chit values).
War Appropriations (US Entry Option #34)
Given how entry and tension are calculated in each pool (see RAC X.XX), the simplest means of meeting the requirements for option #34 is to have chits whose individual values sum up to 17 in each entry pool and 8.5 in each tension pool (since chits have whole number values only, this typically means a split of 8-9 in chit values). You must also, ocourse, have chosen option #22 in a previous turn.
Choosing Options
The general pattern you will want to adhere to is to choose options with the intent of generating tension until you have enough tension to meet your tension requirements for whichever of the above option you are working towards, and then build up entry until you can pick the option. So, given the ability to pick any two options, you will usually want to pick the one with the highest chance of generating tension.
If you pick an option against a particular major power group (Germany/Italy or Japan) and do not generate tension, you can pick a second option against that major power group. It might be useful, knowing this, to choose in advance two options you will be eligible to pick, and when the US entry phase comes around, pick the higher-entry option first. This ensures if you generate tension, you will still be able to select the lower-entry option if you get a poor chit draw in a subsequent turn.
Finally, one of the most interesting entry options is option #26 (Relocate fleet to Pearl Harbour). Not only does this allow you to base naval combat units in Pearl Harbour, but as long as your fleet based there meets the requirements outlined in RAC X.XX you can adjust the probability of generating tension when picking US entry options which are Japan-specific. Given the typically lower tension probabilities of the lower-entry Japan-specific options, it is not unheard of for US players to build up entry to relocate the fleet before picking many Japan-specific options, although it is hardly obligatory given the discretion the US has in choosing tension when picking generic options.
Other Players & US Entry
While only the US player is eligible to view the US entry and tension chits at all times, other players may view such chits as the US player cares to reveal when playing US entry options (subject to the requirement that the revealed chits show the US player meets the required entry or tension values). The US player can also communicate real or deceptive signals about his or her entry values, and must keep entry values (and size of chit pools) in mind when discussing strategy with the other Allies. There is no rule against the US player announcing entry or tension values to any other player, [personal opinion ahead] although it is not common behaviour.
Allied Powers & US Entry
In some respects, the other Allies must take US entry into account when planning their overall strategies and specific acts of aggression following from them to a greater extent than the Axis powers. This is largely because the other Allies want the US in the war sooner rather than later, or at the very least they want lent resources & build points from the US (the more, the better). Where the other Allies intend to engage in aggressive behaviour, they and the US player should agree on when it will occur so the US can be prepared. For example, if the other Allies intend to engage in an aggressive anti-Japan campaign early on, the US would make an exception to the typical initial chit distribution and bulk up the Japan entry pool (although this, along with Allied set-up, tends to telegraph the Allies' intent).
The stiffer penalty for Allied aggression, and the knock-on effects of delayed US gear ups and entry into the war, means that the Allies should be able to justify aggressive acts beyond reasonable doubt: if the USSR wants to make a land claim, they should arrange it such that denial of the claim is very unappealing; if the Allies want to knock over a minor country such as Portugal or Persia, they should be arrange for it to be done swiftly before Axis intervention can gum up the works; if the CW wants to declare war on Italy, the benefits of the surprise impulse and getting the jump on the Italians should outweigh by a substantial margin the costs of being declared war on; and so on and so forth. This is not to say that the Allies should never engage in aggressive behaviour, for often there is much to be gained.
Axis Powers and US Entry
The Axis should generally not allow US entry considerations to affect their strategies and behaviour too much. If the spectre of US entry into the war is too great a deterrent against Axis aggression, the Axis may find they have not expanded their economies & defensive perimeters or weakened the other Allies sufficiently early on in the game, leaving them in a much weaker position once the US does join the war and the other Allies have built up their forces.
However, the Axis cannot simply ignore US entry. Just as delays in US gear ups or entry into the war impose significant penalties on US production, unusual acceleration of US gear ups or entry increases the overall Allied production advantage. If the US enters the war too quickly, even if the Axis have made significant gains up until that point, they may find themsevles unable to consolidate their position and be crushed by the landslide of American military power.
Assuming the US player does not provide any hints through communication, the Axis must go by US entry option plays to divine American intentions and entry values, and respond to key option plays to scale their aggressive behaviour up or down as required. The Japanese player, for example, must usually begin preparations for the wider Pacific War no later than once the US player passes option #26 (Fleet to Pearl), and (particularly when playing with an oil rule) must be ready to begin the Pacific War shortly after option #36 (Oil Embargo) is passed. The Axis as a whole must be ready to either declare war on the US or expect (attempted) declarations of war once the US player has passed option #34 (War Appropriations). Timing will depend on the Axis players' temperaments and the US player's tolerance of risk (namely, the risk of failing at an attempt declare war).
~ Composer99
RE: Manipulating US Entry
Rules of Thumb from my experience
As the allies: do not ever get into a position where a German refusal of Bessarabia can mean the US never goes to war with Germany. Given the wide array of early German gambits that means 3 chits in the european pool from start. You could get away with two i guess but Eastern Poland is hardly optional and there are no sure chits the other way and you also need to take the CW/French DOW on Germany into account.
Early game axis: do not ignore that the 1939 chit average is significantly higher than the 1940 pool. Only make declarations of war when it required by your early strategy.
The allies have the advantage of knowing the pool so if it has a low average now may be the time for the USSR to DOW Persia
The axis needs to pay attention to options the allies are picking; especially the oil embargos and fleet relocation to pearl habour. Get those troops out of China in time (or build those extra land units).
If the allies are tension short it can be a good gamble to overshoot the entry. The possibilities for adding entry are many (declare war on everyone but the US).
If China is lost, surrender unless Japan is at war with another allied major power. Don't let the Japanese sit there at the last factory just waiting for the real war to deliver the knock-out. I am not sure how the new map affect China's chances but unless the last city is chung-king I think the Chinese have a production of zero. And Chung King is a clear terrain hex. The move practically forces Japan to declare war on somebody whether they are in the position to do so or not.
Do not let US Entry concerns lead to major mistakes. If that DOW on Italy needs to happen, it needs to happen. In particular if Italy declared war on only the French and are getting the Germans involved and eating up French colonies. Yeah it is a US Entry hit but make them pay as the CW. Sinking those Italian TRSs is very, very good. There are circumstances where a USSR DOW on Japan is mandatory as well.
Just my thoughts
As the allies: do not ever get into a position where a German refusal of Bessarabia can mean the US never goes to war with Germany. Given the wide array of early German gambits that means 3 chits in the european pool from start. You could get away with two i guess but Eastern Poland is hardly optional and there are no sure chits the other way and you also need to take the CW/French DOW on Germany into account.
Early game axis: do not ignore that the 1939 chit average is significantly higher than the 1940 pool. Only make declarations of war when it required by your early strategy.
The allies have the advantage of knowing the pool so if it has a low average now may be the time for the USSR to DOW Persia
The axis needs to pay attention to options the allies are picking; especially the oil embargos and fleet relocation to pearl habour. Get those troops out of China in time (or build those extra land units).
If the allies are tension short it can be a good gamble to overshoot the entry. The possibilities for adding entry are many (declare war on everyone but the US).
If China is lost, surrender unless Japan is at war with another allied major power. Don't let the Japanese sit there at the last factory just waiting for the real war to deliver the knock-out. I am not sure how the new map affect China's chances but unless the last city is chung-king I think the Chinese have a production of zero. And Chung King is a clear terrain hex. The move practically forces Japan to declare war on somebody whether they are in the position to do so or not.
Do not let US Entry concerns lead to major mistakes. If that DOW on Italy needs to happen, it needs to happen. In particular if Italy declared war on only the French and are getting the Germans involved and eating up French colonies. Yeah it is a US Entry hit but make them pay as the CW. Sinking those Italian TRSs is very, very good. There are circumstances where a USSR DOW on Japan is mandatory as well.
Just my thoughts
- paulderynck
- Posts: 8487
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
Good job! This can pretty well be imported into the manual. However the Oil Embargo is option 31, not 36.ORIGINAL: composer99
OK, I'll take a stab at a few points. There are references to RAC below which I have left undefined because I don't know the section numbering.
Also, being a longtime WiF:FE over-the-board player, I have continued to refer to entry markers as chits since I cannot at this time recall the terminology used for MWiF.
Entry Chit Distribution
Initial Entry Chit Allocation
At the start of the Global War scenario, the US player has three (3) entry chits to distribute between the entry pools (in all other scenarios the US takes part in, entry chit distribution is either fixed or the US is in the war). It is customary to allocate 2 or 3 of these to the European (Germany/Italy) entry pool, on account of the high Allied activity early in the war in Europe. As the US player, you know that Germany must declare war on Poland to open the game, and the Commonwealth (CW) and France must declare war on Germany. Typically, these actions will cancel each other's chit draws out. What tips the balance is that, barring misfortune or poor play on the part of the German player, the USSR is usually obliged to occupy East Poland on the first turn as well, which results in a chit loss 70% of the time.
Other common entry-related activities in the European theatre on the first turn of the game are a German invasion of Denmark, Axis aggression in the Balkans, Italy going to war against the CW & France (or vice-versa), USSR occupation of the Baltic states, USSR land claims vs. Rumania and/or Finland (although if Germany accepts a claim there is no US entry effect), Allied aggression in the Middle East, and even (in the case of very aggressive Axis play or prolonged good weather) Axis aggression in the Low Countries (Netherlands Belgium). Since the chit losses for aggressive Allied (and especially USSR) behaviour are more significant than chit gains for aggressive Axis behaviour, having more chits allocated to the European entry pool means that the US can cope with the higher activity in this theatre during this early period.
By contrast, unless the Allies have planned an early aggression against Japan, all of the entry actions affecting the Japan pool are aggressive actions by Japan, and this activity in the early game is relatively slow-paced. An initial allotment of 0-1 chits in the Japan entry pool means the US will usually have 1-2 chits in the pool by the time the first US entry phase rolls around.
US Entry Phase Chit Allocation
While chits generated by other powers' US entry actions are allocated according to the rules, during the US entry phase, you as the US player select one or more chits and allocates them to either a specified entry pool (for example, once Japan declares war on the Commonwealth, you draw one extra chit per turn which is automatically allocated to the Japan entry pool) or to a pool of your choice.
When you have discretion to choose the pool to which a drawn chit shall be allocated, you will either want to bolster the pool with fewer chits or lower entry value, or you will want to bolster a pool pertaining to a key option you wish to pass (for example, option #30 (Lend-Lease to USSR) or option #36 (Commonwealth reinforces Pacific).
When to Play Options
As a general rule, the two most important US entry options are option #22 (Gear Up) and option #34 (War Appropriations), which improve US production. As you will recall, both options are generic options, meaning you must have entry totals for both the Europe and the Japan pools equal to the entry option number, and tension totals in both pools equal to one-half the entry option number.
Gear Up (US Entry Option #22)
Given how entry and tension are calculated in each pool (see RAC X.XX), the simplest means of meeting the requirements for option #22 is to have chits whose individual values sum up to 11 in each entry pool and 5.5 in each tension pool (since chits have whole number values only, this typically means a split of 5-6 in chit values).
War Appropriations (US Entry Option #34)
Given how entry and tension are calculated in each pool (see RAC X.XX), the simplest means of meeting the requirements for option #34 is to have chits whose individual values sum up to 17 in each entry pool and 8.5 in each tension pool (since chits have whole number values only, this typically means a split of 8-9 in chit values). You must also, ocourse, have chosen option #22 in a previous turn.
Choosing Options
The general pattern you will want to adhere to is to choose options with the intent of generating tension until you have enough tension to meet your tension requirements for whichever of the above option you are working towards, and then build up entry until you can pick the option. So, given the ability to pick any two options, you will usually want to pick the one with the highest chance of generating tension.
If you pick an option against a particular major power group (Germany/Italy or Japan) and do not generate tension, you can pick a second option against that major power group. It might be useful, knowing this, to choose in advance two options you will be eligible to pick, and when the US entry phase comes around, pick the higher-entry option first. This ensures if you generate tension, you will still be able to select the lower-entry option if you get a poor chit draw in a subsequent turn.
Finally, one of the most interesting entry options is option #26 (Relocate fleet to Pearl Harbour). Not only does this allow you to base naval combat units in Pearl Harbour, but as long as your fleet based there meets the requirements outlined in RAC X.XX you can adjust the probability of generating tension when picking US entry options which are Japan-specific. Given the typically lower tension probabilities of the lower-entry Japan-specific options, it is not unheard of for US players to build up entry to relocate the fleet before picking many Japan-specific options, although it is hardly obligatory given the discretion the US has in choosing tension when picking generic options.
Other Players & US Entry
While only the US player is eligible to view the US entry and tension chits at all times, other players may view such chits as the US player cares to reveal when playing US entry options (subject to the requirement that the revealed chits show the US player meets the required entry or tension values). The US player can also communicate real or deceptive signals about his or her entry values, and must keep entry values (and size of chit pools) in mind when discussing strategy with the other Allies. There is no rule against the US player announcing entry or tension values to any other player, [personal opinion ahead] although it is not common behaviour.
Allied Powers & US Entry
In some respects, the other Allies must take US entry into account when planning their overall strategies and specific acts of aggression following from them to a greater extent than the Axis powers. This is largely because the other Allies want the US in the war sooner rather than later, or at the very least they want lent resources & build points from the US (the more, the better). Where the other Allies intend to engage in aggressive behaviour, they and the US player should agree on when it will occur so the US can be prepared. For example, if the other Allies intend to engage in an aggressive anti-Japan campaign early on, the US would make an exception to the typical initial chit distribution and bulk up the Japan entry pool (although this, along with Allied set-up, tends to telegraph the Allies' intent).
The stiffer penalty for Allied aggression, and the knock-on effects of delayed US gear ups and entry into the war, means that the Allies should be able to justify aggressive acts beyond reasonable doubt: if the USSR wants to make a land claim, they should arrange it such that denial of the claim is very unappealing; if the Allies want to knock over a minor country such as Portugal or Persia, they should be arrange for it to be done swiftly before Axis intervention can gum up the works; if the CW wants to declare war on Italy, the benefits of the surprise impulse and getting the jump on the Italians should outweigh by a substantial margin the costs of being declared war on; and so on and so forth. This is not to say that the Allies should never engage in aggressive behaviour, for often there is much to be gained.
Axis Powers and US Entry
The Axis should generally not allow US entry considerations to affect their strategies and behaviour too much. If the spectre of US entry into the war is too great a deterrent against Axis aggression, the Axis may find they have not expanded their economies & defensive perimeters or weakened the other Allies sufficiently early on in the game, leaving them in a much weaker position once the US does join the war and the other Allies have built up their forces.
However, the Axis cannot simply ignore US entry. Just as delays in US gear ups or entry into the war impose significant penalties on US production, unusual acceleration of US gear ups or entry increases the overall Allied production advantage. If the US enters the war too quickly, even if the Axis have made significant gains up until that point, they may find themsevles unable to consolidate their position and be crushed by the landslide of American military power.
Assuming the US player does not provide any hints through communication, the Axis must go by US entry option plays to divine American intentions and entry values, and respond to key option plays to scale their aggressive behaviour up or down as required. The Japanese player, for example, must usually begin preparations for the wider Pacific War no later than once the US player passes option #26 (Fleet to Pearl), and (particularly when playing with an oil rule) must be ready to begin the Pacific War shortly after option #36 (Oil Embargo) is passed. The Axis as a whole must be ready to either declare war on the US or expect (attempted) declarations of war once the US player has passed option #34 (War Appropriations). Timing will depend on the Axis players' temperaments and the US player's tolerance of risk (namely, the risk of failing at an attempt declare war).
Paul
- Red Prince
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
This is wonderfully thought out! [&o][&o][&o] (This is exactly the kind of thing I hoped to see -- there are concepts in here that will help my game, I can tell)ORIGINAL: composer99
OK, I'll take a stab at a few points. There are references to RAC below which I have left undefined because I don't know the section numbering.
Also, being a longtime WiF:FE over-the-board player, I have continued to refer to entry markers as chits since I cannot at this time recall the terminology used for MWiF.
Entry Chit Distribution
Initial Entry Chit Allocation
At the start of the Global War scenario, the US player has three (3) entry chits to distribute between the entry pools (in all other scenarios the US takes part in, entry chit distribution is either fixed or the US is in the war). It is customary to allocate 2 or 3 of these to the European (Germany/Italy) entry pool, on account of the high Allied activity early in the war in Europe. As the US player, you know that Germany must declare war on Poland to open the game, and the Commonwealth (CW) and France must declare war on Germany. Typically, these actions will cancel each other's chit draws out. What tips the balance is that, barring misfortune or poor play on the part of the German player, the USSR is usually obliged to occupy East Poland on the first turn as well, which results in a chit loss 70% of the time.
Other common entry-related activities in the European theatre on the first turn of the game are a German invasion of Denmark, Axis aggression in the Balkans, Italy going to war against the CW & France (or vice-versa), USSR occupation of the Baltic states, USSR land claims vs. Rumania and/or Finland (although if Germany accepts a claim there is no US entry effect), Allied aggression in the Middle East, and even (in the case of very aggressive Axis play or prolonged good weather) Axis aggression in the Low Countries (Netherlands Belgium). Since the chit losses for aggressive Allied (and especially USSR) behaviour are more significant than chit gains for aggressive Axis behaviour, having more chits allocated to the European entry pool means that the US can cope with the higher activity in this theatre during this early period.
By contrast, unless the Allies have planned an early aggression against Japan, all of the entry actions affecting the Japan pool are aggressive actions by Japan, and this activity in the early game is relatively slow-paced. An initial allotment of 0-1 chits in the Japan entry pool means the US will usually have 1-2 chits in the pool by the time the first US entry phase rolls around.
US Entry Phase Chit Allocation
While chits generated by other powers' US entry actions are allocated according to the rules, during the US entry phase, you as the US player select one or more chits and allocates them to either a specified entry pool (for example, once Japan declares war on the Commonwealth, you draw one extra chit per turn which is automatically allocated to the Japan entry pool) or to a pool of your choice.
When you have discretion to choose the pool to which a drawn chit shall be allocated, you will either want to bolster the pool with fewer chits or lower entry value, or you will want to bolster a pool pertaining to a key option you wish to pass (for example, option #30 (Lend-Lease to USSR) or option #36 (Commonwealth reinforces Pacific).
When to Play Options
As a general rule, the two most important US entry options are option #22 (Gear Up) and option #34 (War Appropriations), which improve US production. As you will recall, both options are generic options, meaning you must have entry totals for both the Europe and the Japan pools equal to the entry option number, and tension totals in both pools equal to one-half the entry option number.
Gear Up (US Entry Option #22)
Given how entry and tension are calculated in each pool (see RAC X.XX), the simplest means of meeting the requirements for option #22 is to have chits whose individual values sum up to 11 in each entry pool and 5.5 in each tension pool (since chits have whole number values only, this typically means a split of 5-6 in chit values).
War Appropriations (US Entry Option #34)
Given how entry and tension are calculated in each pool (see RAC X.XX), the simplest means of meeting the requirements for option #34 is to have chits whose individual values sum up to 17 in each entry pool and 8.5 in each tension pool (since chits have whole number values only, this typically means a split of 8-9 in chit values). You must also, ocourse, have chosen option #22 in a previous turn.
Choosing Options
The general pattern you will want to adhere to is to choose options with the intent of generating tension until you have enough tension to meet your tension requirements for whichever of the above option you are working towards, and then build up entry until you can pick the option. So, given the ability to pick any two options, you will usually want to pick the one with the highest chance of generating tension.
If you pick an option against a particular major power group (Germany/Italy or Japan) and do not generate tension, you can pick a second option against that major power group. It might be useful, knowing this, to choose in advance two options you will be eligible to pick, and when the US entry phase comes around, pick the higher-entry option first. This ensures if you generate tension, you will still be able to select the lower-entry option if you get a poor chit draw in a subsequent turn.
Finally, one of the most interesting entry options is option #26 (Relocate fleet to Pearl Harbour). Not only does this allow you to base naval combat units in Pearl Harbour, but as long as your fleet based there meets the requirements outlined in RAC X.XX you can adjust the probability of generating tension when picking US entry options which are Japan-specific. Given the typically lower tension probabilities of the lower-entry Japan-specific options, it is not unheard of for US players to build up entry to relocate the fleet before picking many Japan-specific options, although it is hardly obligatory given the discretion the US has in choosing tension when picking generic options.
Other Players & US Entry
While only the US player is eligible to view the US entry and tension chits at all times, other players may view such chits as the US player cares to reveal when playing US entry options (subject to the requirement that the revealed chits show the US player meets the required entry or tension values). The US player can also communicate real or deceptive signals about his or her entry values, and must keep entry values (and size of chit pools) in mind when discussing strategy with the other Allies. There is no rule against the US player announcing entry or tension values to any other player, [personal opinion ahead] although it is not common behaviour.
Allied Powers & US Entry
In some respects, the other Allies must take US entry into account when planning their overall strategies and specific acts of aggression following from them to a greater extent than the Axis powers. This is largely because the other Allies want the US in the war sooner rather than later, or at the very least they want lent resources & build points from the US (the more, the better). Where the other Allies intend to engage in aggressive behaviour, they and the US player should agree on when it will occur so the US can be prepared. For example, if the other Allies intend to engage in an aggressive anti-Japan campaign early on, the US would make an exception to the typical initial chit distribution and bulk up the Japan entry pool (although this, along with Allied set-up, tends to telegraph the Allies' intent).
The stiffer penalty for Allied aggression, and the knock-on effects of delayed US gear ups and entry into the war, means that the Allies should be able to justify aggressive acts beyond reasonable doubt: if the USSR wants to make a land claim, they should arrange it such that denial of the claim is very unappealing; if the Allies want to knock over a minor country such as Portugal or Persia, they should be arrange for it to be done swiftly before Axis intervention can gum up the works; if the CW wants to declare war on Italy, the benefits of the surprise impulse and getting the jump on the Italians should outweigh by a substantial margin the costs of being declared war on; and so on and so forth. This is not to say that the Allies should never engage in aggressive behaviour, for often there is much to be gained.
Axis Powers and US Entry
The Axis should generally not allow US entry considerations to affect their strategies and behaviour too much. If the spectre of US entry into the war is too great a deterrent against Axis aggression, the Axis may find they have not expanded their economies & defensive perimeters or weakened the other Allies sufficiently early on in the game, leaving them in a much weaker position once the US does join the war and the other Allies have built up their forces.
However, the Axis cannot simply ignore US entry. Just as delays in US gear ups or entry into the war impose significant penalties on US production, unusual acceleration of US gear ups or entry increases the overall Allied production advantage. If the US enters the war too quickly, even if the Axis have made significant gains up until that point, they may find themsevles unable to consolidate their position and be crushed by the landslide of American military power.
Assuming the US player does not provide any hints through communication, the Axis must go by US entry option plays to divine American intentions and entry values, and respond to key option plays to scale their aggressive behaviour up or down as required. The Japanese player, for example, must usually begin preparations for the wider Pacific War no later than once the US player passes option #26 (Fleet to Pearl), and (particularly when playing with an oil rule) must be ready to begin the Pacific War shortly after option #36 (Oil Embargo) is passed. The Axis as a whole must be ready to either declare war on the US or expect (attempted) declarations of war once the US player has passed option #34 (War Appropriations). Timing will depend on the Axis players' temperaments and the US player's tolerance of risk (namely, the risk of failing at an attempt declare war).
This 'early' in the manual, I think they are always referred to as chits, but the two words are pretty much interchangeable in MWiF. I'll check on it.
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH
-Lazarus Long, RAH
- Red Prince
- Posts: 3686
- Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:39 am
- Location: Bangor, Maine, USA
RE: Manipulating US Entry
Also good stuff. The bit in bold confuses me a little. Is this an Axis ploy to unbalance things so that there is too much Entry value and not enough Tension? How long does that generally take to rebalance?ORIGINAL: Kham
Rules of Thumb from my experience
As the allies: do not ever get into a position where a German refusal of Bessarabia can mean the US never goes to war with Germany. Given the wide array of early German gambits that means 3 chits in the european pool from start. You could get away with two i guess but Eastern Poland is hardly optional and there are no sure chits the other way and you also need to take the CW/French DOW on Germany into account.
Early game axis: do not ignore that the 1939 chit average is significantly higher than the 1940 pool. Only make declarations of war when it required by your early strategy.
The allies have the advantage of knowing the pool so if it has a low average now may be the time for the USSR to DOW Persia
The axis needs to pay attention to options the allies are picking; especially the oil embargos and fleet relocation to pearl habour. Get those troops out of China in time (or build those extra land units).
If the allies are tension short it can be a good gamble to overshoot the entry. The possibilities for adding entry are many (declare war on everyone but the US).
If China is lost, surrender unless Japan is at war with another allied major power. Don't let the Japanese sit there at the last factory just waiting for the real war to deliver the knock-out. I am not sure how the new map affect China's chances but unless the last city is chung-king I think the Chinese have a production of zero. And Chung King is a clear terrain hex. The move practically forces Japan to declare war on somebody whether they are in the position to do so or not.
Do not let US Entry concerns lead to major mistakes. If that DOW on Italy needs to happen, it needs to happen. In particular if Italy declared war on only the French and are getting the Germans involved and eating up French colonies. Yeah it is a US Entry hit but make them pay as the CW. Sinking those Italian TRSs is very, very good. There are circumstances where a USSR DOW on Japan is mandatory as well.
Just my thoughts
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH
-Lazarus Long, RAH
- Joseignacio
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- Location: Madrid, Spain
RE: Manipulating US Entry
ORIGINAL: Red Prince
...
This 'early' in the manual, I think they are always referred to as chits, but the two words are pretty much interchangeable in MWiF. I'll check on it.
Some chits are called "sh-its" in the USA WIFCON, hehehe [:D][:D][:D]
Tournament Rules
The World In Flames Championship will
use all the standard rules from WiF: the
final edition except 13.7.3 Mutual
Peace, which is ignored in all tournament
games.
The following optional rules must be
played in all World Championship games:
Option 13: HQ supply and support
Option 34: Motorized movement rates
Option 46: Partisans
Option 50: USSRJapan
compulsory peace
Option 61: Offensive sh-its
http://wifcon.org/Library/WiFCON2007_booklet.pdf
-
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- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:51 pm
RE: Manipulating US Entry
Excellent writeup! I've always heard the pieces called 'chits,' with 'markers' sometimes used (interchangeably) for the U.S. Entry ones.
-
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- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:58 am
RE: Manipulating US Entry
If you refer to an existing “RAC” (Rules As Coded) entry please post the link to that forum entry.
If you want to refer to a new reference to the “RAC” please get permission from Steve to post an entry as per the NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement).
Posting blind references to the “RAC” makes people think it may be different to the “RAW” (Rules As Written in WiF final edition) this leads to confusion.
As Red Prince said "The sole purpose of this section is to help new players".
I am amazed that everyone here can have an overall view without being able to agree with an initial AI for MWiF – USA: Strategies
If you want to refer to a new reference to the “RAC” please get permission from Steve to post an entry as per the NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement).
Posting blind references to the “RAC” makes people think it may be different to the “RAW” (Rules As Written in WiF final edition) this leads to confusion.
As Red Prince said "The sole purpose of this section is to help new players".
I am amazed that everyone here can have an overall view without being able to agree with an initial AI for MWiF – USA: Strategies
University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)
- paulderynck
- Posts: 8487
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:27 pm
- Location: Canada
RE: Manipulating US Entry
Yes it is an axis ploy. I've seen it delay the US by two turns although usually the delay is between war and total war, because when the first DoW is made the axis gets to see all the US entry chits and knows more precisely if there is an entry-tension "gap".ORIGINAL: Red Prince
Also good stuff. The bit in bold confuses me a little. Is this an Axis ploy to unbalance things so that there is too much Entry value and not enough Tension? How long does that generally take to rebalance?ORIGINAL: Kham
Rules of Thumb from my experience
As the allies: do not ever get into a position where a German refusal of Bessarabia can mean the US never goes to war with Germany. Given the wide array of early German gambits that means 3 chits in the european pool from start. You could get away with two i guess but Eastern Poland is hardly optional and there are no sure chits the other way and you also need to take the CW/French DOW on Germany into account.
Early game axis: do not ignore that the 1939 chit average is significantly higher than the 1940 pool. Only make declarations of war when it required by your early strategy.
The allies have the advantage of knowing the pool so if it has a low average now may be the time for the USSR to DOW Persia
The axis needs to pay attention to options the allies are picking; especially the oil embargos and fleet relocation to pearl habour. Get those troops out of China in time (or build those extra land units).
If the allies are tension short it can be a good gamble to overshoot the entry. The possibilities for adding entry are many (declare war on everyone but the US).
If China is lost, surrender unless Japan is at war with another allied major power. Don't let the Japanese sit there at the last factory just waiting for the real war to deliver the knock-out. I am not sure how the new map affect China's chances but unless the last city is chung-king I think the Chinese have a production of zero. And Chung King is a clear terrain hex. The move practically forces Japan to declare war on somebody whether they are in the position to do so or not.
Do not let US Entry concerns lead to major mistakes. If that DOW on Italy needs to happen, it needs to happen. In particular if Italy declared war on only the French and are getting the Germans involved and eating up French colonies. Yeah it is a US Entry hit but make them pay as the CW. Sinking those Italian TRSs is very, very good. There are circumstances where a USSR DOW on Japan is mandatory as well.
Just my thoughts
Personally, I would exclude such a ploy from the manual. Yes it is legal but the manual should not be recommending strategies that many would call "gamey". Plus it can backfire unless the axis is pretty sure what he's doing.
Edit: This is also why the U.S. can move more chits if he wants after the DoW chits - as long as the corresponding options are solely against the axis power(s) just DoW'd. This maneuver allows the U.S. to add back a little "fog of war".
Paul
- Red Prince
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
I think you're right. I needed the explaination because I've not seen it done.Personally, I would exclude such a ploy from the manual. Yes it is legal but the manual should not be recommending strategies that many would call "gamey". Plus it can backfire unless the axis is pretty sure what he's doing.
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Just a general note: This thread is intended to generate ideas for a section of the manual, which is intended to help new players. This thread itself is not primarily intended to help new players; that is a side-benefit. It was "mandated" by Steve. Therefore, recommending places in prospective texts to insert appropriate references is not a violation of the NDA. Permission to do this is implicit in the "mandate" I was given to start this thread.
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH
-Lazarus Long, RAH
RE: Manipulating US Entry
I've seen a game where the Allied player did some work speeding up US entry by simply non defending the Med. The Italian player in the game really fell for it. DoW on the CW in SO 1939 and capturing Gibraltar, Suez and aligning Spain in 1939... The result: US entry against Germany and Italy in 1940, just after France got conquered... As the USSR/French player I was first appalled by the seemingly idiotic defence of the CW in the Med...
However, initiative did go fast towards the Allies end of 1941. I believe two years later Germany and Italy were conquered...
However, initiative did go fast towards the Allies end of 1941. I believe two years later Germany and Italy were conquered...
Peter
RE: Manipulating US Entry
Whenever I employ a strategy for the US Entry, the most important factor are the values of the entry chits for each pool. As an Axis player I don't want to be too aggressive in 1939, as an allied player I'd just looove if the IT-player would declare war in 1939. Typically, the allied player has to negotiate a little bit with the Russian player [:)] As the US I always prioritize actions which forces the Axis to "make a move" so that I can draw more chits... (and gearing up of course!)
In every game I ever played all players lean towards these guidelines, so IMHO writing them in a manual doesn't exactly spoil the game [:)]
Regards,
Oscar
In every game I ever played all players lean towards these guidelines, so IMHO writing them in a manual doesn't exactly spoil the game [:)]
Regards,
Oscar
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RE: Manipulating US Entry
Oops
University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)