How do you handle Barbarossa? And the Pacific War?

[Joseignacio]

I can say that as a veteran WIF player, I can do pretty well with the CW, France, USA (although I lack the experience in the PAcific because we only play Europe map scenarios), Italy, and Germany (in this case except for Barbarossa).

BUT I seem to be very incompetent wether I am German or Russian in attacking or defending USSR, I am usually (maybe always) overcome. As a german, I tend to get stuck in the forests between Leningrad and the Prypet or halfway from there to Moscow. From there on the way back starts. In the south usually Kiev and the rivers around result too much for my infantry and panzer even though I think it shouldn't be.

However, as a USSR player, I am under constantly menace in Leningrad, and the south defense line is frequently blitzed, making me retreat in despair.

As for Japan and USA (and CW), i don't really know what should I invade reinforce, the importance of some particular ports, islands, territories, ...

One of the few games I played with the Pacific map, I was CW and we stuck in Burma always a step forward to the japanese, who wanted to kick me out but found always too expensive odds, until with time I could have the odds on my side, as well as the mountain hexes, which I had been able to keep (I mean the Japanese couldn't use them), so I was able to retailate and invade partially Malasia, which resulted very helpful as a base for the fight for supremacy in the sea of China, a "cheap" fight for us because we could make i with planes while the Japanese mainly had to use ships. We lost more build points bt sunk ships never came backto game.

But the japanese did a supercombined and invaded "everything", I was so shocked... which would be the Objectives of that supercombined or a normal longer term invasion strategy?

Also, when the american arrives, there are so many archipielagos to ocuppy that I don't really get to know which is vital and which is accesory.

[bo]

Jose you do now have a slight advantage over good players of the board game [including yourself] who have not played for awhile, you have the perfect illustrator in CWIF especially in the learning of the Pacific theater of war, I have yet to pass the S/O 1940 time line because I am constantly changing the way I attack and if it does not work I will try something else, I have Poland down perfect, it always falls in S/O 1939, I try everything that I know [which is not a lot] to defend Poland but Germany has way too much power. As far as the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark they fall quickly after the fall of Poland. France would fall easily but I don't like setting up Vichy France because I attack Spain next and I like to spread out my forces on the Spanish border and Vichy would prevent that so I capture all of France, would I do this playing an experienced board game player like yourself, probably not, unless [taking Spain]I want to take Gibraltar to open up the Atlantic for the Italian navy or is there another way to take Gibraltar [never played the game so I am doing some guessing here.] [&:] The CWIF game allows you to try many different ploys in the Pacific, if something does not work out you try it differently {attack only]
I feel I could play a good player in MWIF when it is finished and give a fair account of myself at least in the beginning but as the game wears on I know I would be in trouble, oh well back to the drawing board.

Bo

[Red Prince]

I feel I could play a good player in MWIF when it is finished and give a fair account of myself at least in the beginning but as the game wears on I know I would be in trouble, oh well back to the drawing board.

Game on! [:D]

Your confidence will be your doom, Bo! (Or mine!) I'm not a good player yet, but we'll have to try each other out when the time comes. [:)]

I also think it's interesting that you keep starting over after the first year or so. Before you picked up CWiF, I remember you asking how deep into a game any of the beta-testers had gotten. [;)] Now you know.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: bo

........ I have Poland down perfect, it always falls in S/O 1939.......

Bo

Warspite1

Maybe CWIF is different, but the great thing about WIF is that there are no certainties. I have seen Poland survive S/O 1939 many times. Sure the God of $%*& dice needs to play its part, but Poland's demise is not guaranteed in that first turn.

[composer99]

I don't think bo is exaggerating too greatly suggesting "Poland always falls". Given sufficient experience on the part of the German player, Poland should fall almost always on the first turn of the game. If it doesn't, it's usually because of a combination of poor weather and poor land attack results (both the results of random number generation), and even then it should be a relatively rare occasion.

(Disclosure: I have, as a German player, failed to knock Poland out on the first turn.)

[warspite1]

Which is what I said - the dice need to have a strong anti-Fascist thing going on (weather, air-strikes, turn length, ground attack) otherwise the Polish are indeed toast on that first turn.

Maybe I have seen Germany fail to take Poland more times than most because I am just not very good at the game

[Centuur]

Failure to capture Poland in SO 1939 isn't that rare. If bad weather falls in at the first weather roll and the allies all pass on their second impulse (and why shouldn't they pass, since there probably isn't anything worth doing at that point in Poland) the turn might end... If it doesn't at that point, Poland is probably going to get conquered by Germany.
I've seen it done against me that way... I decided to stall the attack on Warsaw (didn't want to lose units on that attack) due to the weather and didn't got a third impulse in the S/O 1939 turn...
I've learned from that: if bad weather comes in the second Axis impulse, I now would attack Warsaw/Lodz (depending on which you've captured in the first impulse of the war) and also position my HQ's in a way that that attack is always in supply in the second impulse, regardless of weather conditions.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I feel I could play a good player in MWIF when it is finished and give a fair account of myself at least in the beginning but as the game wears on I know I would be in trouble, oh well back to the drawing board.

Game on! [:D]

Your confidence will be your doom, Bo! (Or mine!) I'm not a good player yet, but we'll have to try each other out when the time comes. [:)]

I also think it's interesting that you keep starting over after the first year or so. Before you picked up CWiF, I remember you asking how deep into a game any of the beta-testers had gotten. [;)] Now you know.

First of all you know the rules as well as anybody and I feel it will take a lot of playing against good players to have the rules sink in to me, they are important to know [the rules] even in a computer game which keeps you from making errors but no help when you do a stupid move, one of the things I fail to check is the weather before I make any selections like naval air, etc.

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: bo

........ I have Poland down perfect, it always falls in S/O 1939.......

Bo

Warspite1

Maybe CWIF is different, but the great thing about WIF is that there are no certainties. I have seen Poland survive S/O 1939 many times. Sure the God of $%*& dice needs to play its part, but Poland's demise is not guaranteed in that first turn.

Warspite I must have played the CWIF invasion of Poland 7 or 8 times in the last month and for some reason the weather is always perfect on the first impulse and if I can remember right the weather was always decent for all of sept/oct 1939. Maybe this is a CWIF computer thing not sure. I always try to attack at the least 7 to 1 odds, normally I try to have odds of at least 10 to 1 if possible. Now I know a good player may stop me from the S/O victory over Poland, but Germany has so much power that I don't see how it goes beyond S/O but then again I am not sure about that. I am sure a experienced WIF player will know how to do a better setup than I can for Poland but the Polish player can only do so much with his meager forces.

Bo

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

I quite often don't take out Poland on the first turn as Germany.

But I usually play with the "No ZoC on the surprise impulse" and my current favorite set up puts a grand total of 3 corps on the Polish border. I like to go after France/Belgium first. (Way I see it, France can do a *lot* more to reinforce her position than Poland can.) Once the weather turns bad, it can be hard to advance.


Bo, this is just my opinion, but waiting for a 7:1 odds or better strikes me as a bit too conservative. I'll almost always attack at 4:1 if there's some kind of situational plus. (flipped, armor concentration in the open, etc.) and get even lower odds as the turn progresses, and flipping isn't as much of an issue. 7:1 might be possible to get with the Poles and a few other minors, but you're not going to have an easy time getting those kinds of odds against the French or the Soviets....

[bo]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Which is what I said - the dice need to have a strong anti-Fascist thing going on (weather, air-strikes, turn length, ground attack) otherwise the Polish are indeed toast on that first turn.

Maybe I have seen Germany fail to take Poland more times than most because I am just not very good at the game

I think I made a mistake in phrasing things the way I did, I can see where die roles bad weather etc., could hurt the German attack and slow them down until the next move of Nov/ Dec. but truthfully Warspite I have not seen that yet in CWIF, and I know I will get crushed by you and others [:@] so lets press Steve to get on with it to prove it. [my demise][;)]

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I quite often don't take out Poland on the first turn as Germany.

But I usually play with the "No ZoC on the surprise impulse" and my current favorite set up puts a grand total of 3 corps on the Polish border. I like to go after France/Belgium first. (Way I see it, France can do a *lot* more to reinforce her position than Poland can.) Once the weather turns bad, it can be hard to advance.


Bo, this is just my opinion, but waiting for a 7:1 odds or better strikes me as a bit too conservative. I'll almost always attack at 4:1 if there's some kind of situational plus. (flipped, armor concentration in the open, etc.) and get even lower odds as the turn progresses, and flipping isn't as much of an issue. 7:1 might be possible to get with the Poles and a few other minors, but you're not going to have an easy time getting those kinds of odds against the French or the Soviets....

You are right on about being conservative with the odds, at first I wasn't and I paid dearly several months ago but no more of that. I was always getting disorganized, in CWIF the S/O span seems to have any wheres from 10 to 13 impulses and that allows me to be slightly conservative, that might seem high but that's the way it is in CWIF, I don't put any units on the Belgium or the Netherlands border until I get reinforcements after the last impulse of S/O. Now a seasoned WIF player might make me pay dearly for that, but you have to remember I am playing against a tyro noob [ME}[&:] As for France it is very hard to get real good odds if the French player clogs the border and if he [the French player] stacks his units then it becomes a war of attrition which Germany can afford but France can't. Please remember these are all hypothetical scenarios for me, real play will be entirely different and I am sure very enlightening[;)] And also I am just learning this game and I might ask about things I should know out of hand and say dumb [&:] things or seem like dumb things to seasoned players.

Bo

[Joseignacio]

BO, thanks, it's just it's kind of cold to fight yourserlf...[>:]

As for Vichy, you can create Vichy and afterwards collapse it and attack Spain if you want, that would save you time.

[Joseignacio]

I have seen Poland survive few times but not as few. Usually because along with the bad luck in all those factors, the german player tried to save time invading Belgium, splitting his forces and betting his success that the turn will be long enough to destroy one city per impulse after the first one.

So, in this case, bad play or odd experiments can help Poland to survive.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: bo

........ I have Poland down perfect, it always falls in S/O 1939.......

Bo

Warspite1

Maybe CWIF is different, but the great thing about WIF is that there are no certainties. I have seen Poland survive S/O 1939 many times. Sure the God of $%*& dice needs to play its part, but Poland's demise is not guaranteed in that first turn.

Warspite I must have played the CWIF invasion of Poland 7 or 8 times in the last month and for some reason the weather is always perfect on the first impulse and if I can remember right the weather was always decent for all of sept/oct 1939. Maybe this is a CWIF computer thing not sure. I always try to attack at the least 7 to 1 odds, normally I try to have odds of at least 10 to 1 if possible. Now I know a good player may stop me from the S/O victory over Poland, but Germany has so much power that I don't see how it goes beyond S/O but then again I am not sure about that. I am sure a experienced WIF player will know how to do a better setup than I can for Poland but the Polish player can only do so much with his meager forces.

Bo

Weather is fine because rules say so. Exceptionally.

The odds you are getting are very conservative, which is good, is the right way to face Polish surrender, provided the turn will not be extra short (llike 3 impulses per side) or you dont have a 7:1 and roll snake's eyes, deactivating part of your Poland Invasion Force (I cannot check teh table right now).

Also, experience can help, yes. For example leaving best polish units out of range of stukas (which only reach about 3 hexes usually), blocking with ZoCs if "ZoC cancelled in surprise atttack" is not selected, or simply occupying with bad units hexes around Warsaw/Lodz (?) so that the attackers get worse ratios in the dreaded surprise attack...

Also, there are tactics like saving your air force but in reach to try to give air support to Warsaw, HQ the same, in woods but as close as possible, polish "white" infantry always in warsaw (in case it's deorganized still values 3), ...

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I quite often don't take out Poland on the first turn as Germany.

But I usually play with the "No ZoC on the surprise impulse" and my current favorite set up puts a grand total of 3 corps on the Polish border. I like to go after France/Belgium first. (Way I see it, France can do a *lot* more to reinforce her position than Poland can.) Once the weather turns bad, it can be hard to advance.


Bo, this is just my opinion, but waiting for a 7:1 odds or better strikes me as a bit too conservative. I'll almost always attack at 4:1 if there's some kind of situational plus. (flipped, armor concentration in the open, etc.) and get even lower odds as the turn progresses, and flipping isn't as much of an issue. 7:1 might be possible to get with the Poles and a few other minors, but you're not going to have an easy time getting those kinds of odds against the French or the Soviets....

You are right on about being conservative with the odds, at first I wasn't and I paid dearly several months ago but no more of that. I was always getting disorganized, in CWIF the S/O span seems to have any wheres from 10 to 13 impulses and that allows me to be slightly conservative, that might seem high but that's the way it is in CWIF, I don't put any units on the Belgium or the Netherlands border until I get reinforcements after the last impulse of S/O. Now a seasoned WIF player might make me pay dearly for that, but you have to remember I am playing against a tyro noob [ME}[&:] As for France it is very hard to get real good odds if the French player clogs the border and if he [the French player] stacks his units then it becomes a war of attrition which Germany can afford but France can't. Please remember these are all hypothetical scenarios for me, real play will be entirely different and I am sure very enlightening[;)] And also I am just learning this game and I might ask about things I should know out of hand and say dumb [&:] things or seem like dumb things to seasoned players.

Bo

BO, I agree to your present style regarding Poland attack. Please remember that after taking Poland you can rail any unit that is stacked with an HQ on a railroad or inside a city( with or without HQ) to cities, HQs and ports (?) in the french/netherlands border. This would let you have enough troops to attack Belgium without problems if you want to take the risk (don't know if I would, it can let the BEF take good advanced positions in Belgium if unsuccessful and let some belge unit to escape.

10 or more turns is not strange in a summer turn, in Europe map, hence what I said before, you may have time for railing many units after defeating Poland.

It's not an atrition war. German units are more numerous, better, and have air superiority, besides of units that can blitz (unlike french) like armors, ..., it's a matter of time, usually few time, that the french fall to an experienced german.

[oscar72se]

Here's what I usually do when I play GE:
In order to have more corps available for the second GE impulse of S/O 39 I usually setup Rundstedt on the western front. I use this HQ to flip the RES... This way I minimize the risk of being over committed on the western front. But be careful, Rundstedt is a nice bomb target for the allies so let him relax in a nice forested area [:)] I also make sure to seize control over Denmark, just make sure that you take ALL coastal hexes. If not, the CW player can just land an HQ in Denmark and make your life miserable for a couple of turns. To take control over Denmark (and "take" the Baltic Sea), you need three units of which one has to have 6 MP.

Regards
Oscar

[Joseignacio]

I don't have the map here but if I recall well, you don't need 6 MP, only 4 if the previous impulse you were noth of Kiel, and weather is fine. The distinction is important because it can save a mech or armor needed elsewhere and there is no problem in moving the unit to the north of Kiel hex (for example from Kiel) because although the allies can see what is coming, they can do exactly nothing.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: oscar72se

Here's what I usually do when I play GE:
In order to have more corps available for the second GE impulse of S/O 39 I usually setup Rundstedt on the western front. I use this HQ to flip the RES... This way I minimize the risk of being over committed on the western front. But be careful, Rundstedt is a nice bomb target for the allies so let him relax in a nice forested area [:)] I also make sure to seize control over Denmark, just make sure that you take ALL coastal hexes. If not, the CW player can just land an HQ in Denmark and make your life miserable for a couple of turns. To take control over Denmark (and "take" the Baltic Sea), you need three units of which one has to have 6 MP.

Regards
Oscar

See Oscar that is where I sense trouble for me in this game until I get some real experience either playing an AI good or bad and playing a good or great human player I would forget about putting a HQ in the woods to help offset an air attack, I have along way to go.

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I quite often don't take out Poland on the first turn as Germany.

But I usually play with the "No ZoC on the surprise impulse" and my current favorite set up puts a grand total of 3 corps on the Polish border. I like to go after France/Belgium first. (Way I see it, France can do a *lot* more to reinforce her position than Poland can.) Once the weather turns bad, it can be hard to advance.


Bo, this is just my opinion, but waiting for a 7:1 odds or better strikes me as a bit too conservative. I'll almost always attack at 4:1 if there's some kind of situational plus. (flipped, armor concentration in the open, etc.) and get even lower odds as the turn progresses, and flipping isn't as much of an issue. 7:1 might be possible to get with the Poles and a few other minors, but you're not going to have an easy time getting those kinds of odds against the French or the Soviets....

You are right on about being conservative with the odds, at first I wasn't and I paid dearly several months ago but no more of that. I was always getting disorganized, in CWIF the S/O span seems to have any wheres from 10 to 13 impulses and that allows me to be slightly conservative, that might seem high but that's the way it is in CWIF, I don't put any units on the Belgium or the Netherlands border until I get reinforcements after the last impulse of S/O. Now a seasoned WIF player might make me pay dearly for that, but you have to remember I am playing against a tyro noob [ME}[&:] As for France it is very hard to get real good odds if the French player clogs the border and if he [the French player] stacks his units then it becomes a war of attrition which Germany can afford but France can't. Please remember these are all hypothetical scenarios for me, real play will be entirely different and I am sure very enlightening[;)] And also I am just learning this game and I might ask about things I should know out of hand and say dumb [&:] things or seem like dumb things to seasoned players.

Bo

BO, I agree to your present style regarding Poland attack. Please remember that after taking Poland you can rail any unit that is stacked with an HQ on a railroad or inside a city( with or without HQ) to cities, HQs and ports (?) in the french/netherlands border. This would let you have enough troops to attack Belgium without problems if you want to take the risk (don't know if I would, it can let the BEF take good advanced positions in Belgium if unsuccessful and let some belge unit to escape.

10 or more turns is not strange in a summer turn, in Europe map, hence what I said before, you may have time for railing many units after defeating Poland.

It's not an atrition war. German units are more numerous, better, and have air superiority, besides of units that can blitz (unlike french) like armors, ..., it's a matter of time, usually few time, that the french fall to an experienced german.

Jose, but aren't those units I am railing to the Belgium border disorganized after the move? Don't I have to wait until the next 2 monthly sequence to reorganize if I do not have HQs nearby? Or are you saying if the units are stacked with a HQ unit when they rail west they do not suffer disorganization?
Please explain collapsing Vichy France. Do you mean attack Vichy?

Bo