Allied Fleet HQs

[bradk]

I have recently realized that some fairily experienced players may not be aware of the following information and so thought I'd post it here. Quirky stuff but can be useful. This is not covered in the PW Hints document.

3rd and 5th Fleet HQs are subordinate to Cent Pac HQ. After both exist, the following applies.

1) Early in the game, a TF is attached to the HQ of the base where its created.

2) After 3rd Fleet and 5th Fleet HQs exist, a TF created at a Cent Pac, 3rd Fleet, or 5th Fleet base will be attached to 3rd Fleet or 5th Fleet.

3) Which Fleet HQ a TF is attached to depends on the type of TF, not the HQ control of the base where its created.

4) Which HQ an air combat TF is attached to alternates to simulate the historical Spruance/Halsey command changes.

5) Assume its a time period where 5th Fleet controls air combat TFs. It will also control surface combat TFs. Transport TFs created during this time, whether at a Cent Pac, 5th Fleet, or 3rd Fleet base, will be attached to 3rd Fleet.

6) What this means is you can assign good air Admirals as leaders of 5th Fleet, and good land Admirals INCLUDING THE AIR LEADER to 3rd Fleet.

7) Land combat during the landing phase will be controlled by the chain of command TF leader - 3rd Fleet Air Leader - 3rd Fleet HQ Leader - Cent Pac Air Leader - Cent Pac HQ Leader.

8) After landing combat will be controlled by the base commander and whatever HQ the LCUs are assigned to.

9) LCUs should be loaded while assigned to either Cent Pac or 10th Army (if available). That way landing combat is controlled by the TF commander or 3rd Fleet leaders but subsequent combat is controlled by Cent Pac or, preferably, 10th Army.

10) Avoid having LCUs assigned to 5th Fleet in this scenario, which if handled as above, will have leaders with strong air ratings but weak land ratings.

11) The program changes control of the TFs between 5th and 3rd Fleet at various times. When this happens, leaders will need to be changed.

[Ranger-75]

This was a part of the HQ structure that i never liked. The US 3rd & 5th Fleets were seagoing HQs, not based on land, and then a single TF 38 or TF 58 has ALL the fast carriers in task groups. The Fast BBs were in a different TFs if separately formed, but most of the time were part of the carrier TGs.
It's difficult to structure PacWar TFs the same way.

[bradk]

Well, assuming 3rd Fleet is the active one at the time, all air and surface combat TFs formed at any Cent Pac or 3rd Fleet base get assigned to 3rd Fleet. You can put the 3d Fleet HQ on one of the TFs and if a TF commander fails his aggressiveness check and command goes up the line, you have the advantage of the higher commander being at the scene of the action. According to the original manual, HQ level commanders are more effective close to the action.

[MXB2001]

Don't complain unless you've tried the Japanese. Combined Fleet is the only fleet HQ...

[bradk]

ORIGINAL: MXB2001

Don't complain unless you've tried the Japanese. Combined Fleet is the only fleet HQ...

While all air and surface combat and bombardnent TFs are assigend to Combined Fleet, the IJ player can arrange for all other types of TFs, including transport TFs for landings, to be assigned to North, South, or 8th Fleets. So its not really a one fleet HQ situation althoguh some effort is required to get TFs assigned to fleets other than Combined Fleet.

[Capt. Harlock]

Don't complain unless you've tried the Japanese. Combined Fleet is the only fleet HQ...

I've tried the Japanese, and it's important to remember that the IJN never reaches the size of the combined Allied navies. (Several times I have deeply regretted that they never get more heavy cruisers.)

One other thing to watch out for is that Allied SW Pacific can be a Fleet HQ for TF's formed at SW Pacific bases. MacArthur does not make a good TF commander . . . [;)]

[MXB2001]

ORIGINAL: bradk

ORIGINAL: MXB2001

Don't complain unless you've tried the Japanese. Combined Fleet is the only fleet HQ...

While all air and surface combat and bombardnent TFs are assigend to Combined Fleet, the IJ player can arrange for all other types of TFs, including transport TFs for landings, to be assigned to North, South, or 8th Fleets. So its not really a one fleet HQ situation althoguh some effort is required to get TFs assigned to fleets other than Combined Fleet.

What I've found is that most JA HQ's attach transports to Combined. 17/18th use South Seas/8th.

[Rich Dionne]

One technique I've used in the past to help share the TF preparation point load with Combined Fleet is to create cargo TF's for South Seas Fleet, North Seas Fleet, and 8th Fleet and then use these as "seeds" to create new TF's in support of a Combined Fleet operation. For example, you can use one existing South Seas TF at Combined Fleet HQ to create new South Seas TF's, even bombardment or surface combat TF's that can support a major Combined Fleet operation. You just create a new task force of any type, select "no" for "auto-select", hit the space bar to pick a ship from an existing TF, pull a ship from the South Seas cargo TF, and then you will have a new South Seas TF for whatever mission you may want. You can then transfer other ships into or out of this new TF using the port. Of course you'll probably want to make sure that South Seas Fleet is assigned the same target as Combined Fleet to get a more concentrated effort.

[MXB2001]

ORIGINAL: Rich Dionne

One technique I've used in the past to help share the TF preparation point load with Combined Fleet is to create cargo TF's for South Seas Fleet, North Seas Fleet, and 8th Fleet and then use these as "seeds" to create new TF's in support of a Combined Fleet operation. For example, you can use one existing South Seas TF at Combined Fleet HQ to create new South Seas TF's, even bombardment or surface combat TF's that can support a major Combined Fleet operation. You just create a new task force of any type, select "no" for "auto-select", hit the space bar to pick a ship from an existing TF, pull a ship from the South Seas cargo TF, and then you will have a new South Seas TF for whatever mission you may want. You can then transfer other ships into or out of this new TF using the port. Of course you'll probably want to make sure that South Seas Fleet is assigned the same target as Combined Fleet to get a more concentrated effort.

Nice, of course it might be considered an "exploit". On the assumption that we're supposed to labour under the restriction of course.

SC & Bomb. TF's? I can't see how. I've never seen TF's change type when ships are transferred in/out.

[Capt. Harlock]

SC & Bomb. TF's? I can't see how. I've never seen TF's change type when ships are transferred in/out.

Looks like a very nice workaround to me. The point is that the TF is not changing its mission. You are creating a brand new TF by pulling warships from an existing one.

[Rich Dionne]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

SC & Bomb. TF's? I can't see how. I've never seen TF's change type when ships are transferred in/out.

Looks like a very nice workaround to me. The point is that the TF is not changing its mission. You are creating a brand new TF by pulling warships from an existing one.

Yes, the TF does not actually change mission type. When you create a new "empty" TF, you first select the type of mission you want (surface combat, etc); the new TF has no HQ "identity" until you draw ships into it from either a port or another TF. So if you create a new surface combat, bombardment, or air combat TF, and draw the ships from a port, then the new TF will always assume a "Combined Fleet" identity; However, if you draw the first ship in from another TF, then the new TF will assume the same HQ identity as the TF that you pulled your first ship from. That is how you can create a "South Seas Fleet" surface combat TF. Of course, would Combined Fleet really ever loan the Yamato to "South Seas" for their own uses? Not likely, but you are the master now! [;)]

[MXB2001]

ORIGINAL: Rich Dionne

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

SC & Bomb. TF's? I can't see how. I've never seen TF's change type when ships are transferred in/out.

Looks like a very nice workaround to me. The point is that the TF is not changing its mission. You are creating a brand new TF by pulling warships from an existing one.

Yes, the TF does not actually change mission type. When you create a new "empty" TF, you first select the type of mission you want (surface combat, etc); the new TF has no HQ "identity" until you draw ships into it from either a port or another TF. So if you create a new surface combat, bombardment, or air combat TF, and draw the ships from a port, then the new TF will always assume a "Combined Fleet" identity; However, if you draw the first ship in from another TF, then the new TF will assume the same HQ identity as the TF that you pulled your first ship from. That is how you can create a "South Seas Fleet" surface combat TF. Of course, would Combined Fleet really ever loan the Yamato to "South Seas" for their own uses? Not likely, but you are the master now! [;)]

Thanks I got it now. I guess I've not used the create TF from TF function often enough to become familiar with the details.

[last00]

To Rich Dionne:

It's the most invaluable tip for a IJ player that I've got!

The combined fleet's PP frequently run out due to a shortage of oil reserves particularly 6 months after the begining of the Campaign, but this expedient may alleviate this problem and enable IJN TFs to mount further offensive operations.

Thanks [8D]

[Rich Dionne]

ORIGINAL: last00

To Rich Dionne:

It's the most invaluable tip for a IJ player that I've got!

The combined fleet's PP frequently run out due to a shortage of oil reserves particularly 6 months after the begining of the Campaign, but this expedient may alleviate this problem and enable IJN TFs to mount further offensive operations.

Thanks [8D]

I'm glad to hear you found it helpful! I always liked the way it made it easier to spread some PP's away from Combined Fleet for things like transports, replenish TF's etc.