My first-dug-in units have reached entrenchment level 3, with my opponent's lead elements reaching the outskirts of Kiev, one move from smolensk, adjacent to Velikye Luki, and still a good distance from Leningrad.
One thing this version deprives the German player of is the ability to overrun Hq's the first turn (not sure where this puts us in regards to the sacred cow of historical reality), leaving many units with many planes, and no need to wait for them to reappear at RVGK.
Great dispersion allows the Russian player to husband his air units. Most of the bombers if situated in a line running north and south from Moscow, can strike at the leading German elements with escort. The mig-3, with it's range of 18 (!) is now worhtwhile of production since it's combat values are the same as the young Yak-1. It's no wonder they fell like flies...all that fuel sloshing about in their cells must have made maneuvering troublesome. With their range of 18, it is possible that they could raid ploesti from the western edge of the caucases. That will have to come later though after experience is gained. The Yak-1 with it's range of 14 will also be able to reach those cities from the Crimea. The experience is readily available to gain if your opponent sends his panzers too far afield from his Hq's.
Hoards of two version of I-16's, I-15's, and I-153's (Jabos with a range of 6) abound in such strengths that changing them to a better craft will have to await some combat attrition.
Generally, the red bomber units seem to perform better than in version 3.2.
The Lagg-3 is also present in some numbers, but it's range of 9 makes it a dubious choice for continued production.
Also, the Russian player finds he has so much of everything that there is hardly a place to put it all until new corps can be raised. Strengths are much higher as well, almost making one think he could counterattack with some success. Fortunately for the German player, the Russian command penalty still keeps attacks disjointed, if they happen at all....
A case in point:
Far north...next to the top of the mapedge, my opponent had advanced 2 Finnish Korps, each of 1 div (or so intelligence estimates say). The finns were at a supply level of zero, and seemingly easy prey. So, after the transfer of some air resources to the HQ in question, an attack was plotted. One of the two attacks actually occurred, and even with some 250 bombers attacking, the 5 divisions involved only mustered enough strength to get 1-1 odds against some 79 Finnish squads. This is, of course, par for the course.
One plus to This version is the many units with historical place/names. This is enjoyable for one who is into such minutae that generally comes with Napoleonics.
I'm still flummoxed by the Roman numeral system of the German Korps...I find it like converting to metrics...do-able, but time intensive.
Overall, I think this version shapes things up nicely for the Ivans. Time will tell, I suppose.
an updated look at Possum v5
an updated look at Possum v5
Jesus ...., with all respect. This closet germanism is allways killing me.
Preuss, I'm glad you like it so far.
A Clarification, the LaGG-3 and successor's are all fighter-bombers, so you may want to keep them in production to replace the I-16 SPB's and I-153's that are your current Fighter-bombers.
Also, what do you thing about the new AFV's?
I hope you'r cursing Stalin that you have to keep such wonderfull vehicles as the T-26 M40 in service! ( But it's worse for the Germans, They are now stuck with having to keep Pz-II's in service!)
A Clarification, the LaGG-3 and successor's are all fighter-bombers, so you may want to keep them in production to replace the I-16 SPB's and I-153's that are your current Fighter-bombers.
Also, what do you thing about the new AFV's?
I hope you'r cursing Stalin that you have to keep such wonderfull vehicles as the T-26 M40 in service! ( But it's worse for the Germans, They are now stuck with having to keep Pz-II's in service!)
"We're having a war, and we want you to come!"
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.
So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
"We'll give you a gun, and we'll give you a hat!"
And the pig began to whistle when they told the piggies that.
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Mark_BookGuy
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 11:51 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: an updated look at Possum v5
Flummoxed? Humm... time to drag out the dictionary. I thought Civil War soldiers died of the Bloody Flummox:)Originally posted by Preuss
I'm still flummoxed by the Roman numeral system of the German Korps...I find it like converting to metrics...do-able, but time intensive.
Overall, I think this version shapes things up nicely for the Ivans. Time will tell, I suppose.
One of my staffers has a wierd habit: she likes to do her math (she does a lot of it) in Roman numerals. Actually, I can beat that: try using cuneiform mathematics, where the same figure can mean a variety of different numbers. (yes, I can read some late Assyrian cuneiform.) I just don't try it at work!
Mark
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Ugh....!
German production looks pretty weak....ok...not pretty weak...but terribly weak. Havng sent off my fourth turn, I wonder how the Germans can cope. Although my fighters took some casualties, most oft, my bombers would either brave the storm, suffer losses, and still attack... Or, they would go unintercepted, leading to heavy losses of German armor. This, I think, would really suck for the player who took the care to remain under the umbrella as my opponent is now doing. Conversely, he's downing my air supply units, trying to resupply surrounded comrades, so they ditch the supplies uselessly on to the steppe flying home as if Old Scratch were hot on their heels. Luck, perhaps?
Again, we'll have to see how this plays out.
As for 'flummoxed', Mark, I believe you were talking about the flux. The colloquialism I used was more akin to exasperated confusion. I'm a bit of a "book-guy" myself, and am an American to boot.
Happy Trails!
German production looks pretty weak....ok...not pretty weak...but terribly weak. Havng sent off my fourth turn, I wonder how the Germans can cope. Although my fighters took some casualties, most oft, my bombers would either brave the storm, suffer losses, and still attack... Or, they would go unintercepted, leading to heavy losses of German armor. This, I think, would really suck for the player who took the care to remain under the umbrella as my opponent is now doing. Conversely, he's downing my air supply units, trying to resupply surrounded comrades, so they ditch the supplies uselessly on to the steppe flying home as if Old Scratch were hot on their heels. Luck, perhaps?
Again, we'll have to see how this plays out.
As for 'flummoxed', Mark, I believe you were talking about the flux. The colloquialism I used was more akin to exasperated confusion. I'm a bit of a "book-guy" myself, and am an American to boot.
Happy Trails!
Jesus ...., with all respect. This closet germanism is allways killing me.
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Mark_BookGuy
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 11:51 pm
- Location: Chicago
As you might guess, I was trying for a very bad pun with the flux crack. Speaking of the bloody flux, Guy Sajer in Forgotten Soldier has a horrific description of it. Poor guy was riding in a truck when his world changed, er., went into flux. Sorry.Originally posted by Preuss
As for 'flummoxed', Mark, I believe you were talking about the flux. The colloquialism I used was more akin to exasperated confusion. I'm a bit of a "book-guy" myself, and am an American to boot.
Happy Trails!
Mark
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
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matt.buttsworth
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Weimar, Germany
- Contact:
Possum could you please send me a copy of version 5 as I do not have one. matt.buttsworth@freesurf.ch
You can download it here if you like.
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.
Lord Acton
Lord Acton
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matt.buttsworth
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Weimar, Germany
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Possum, I want to have your babies! 
Your brilliant work has made me once more fascinated by WIR...
Edit: I also couldn't help but notice the extremely limited German production in 1941 - this is a courageous move that makes it finally possible to suffer a defeat through attrition - in older versions of WIR I could consistently outproduce the attrition and could eventually equip every single tank regiment in existence with Panthers/Kingtigers/etc.
Your brilliant work has made me once more fascinated by WIR...
Edit: I also couldn't help but notice the extremely limited German production in 1941 - this is a courageous move that makes it finally possible to suffer a defeat through attrition - in older versions of WIR I could consistently outproduce the attrition and could eventually equip every single tank regiment in existence with Panthers/Kingtigers/etc.
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matt.buttsworth
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Weimar, Germany
- Contact:
Four weeks of v5 on the Red side, and starting my second week on the german side.
Of interest is the appearance of JG-302 equipped with the Bf-109G. I fought off the temptation to switch them to a more available type (the G version not yet entering into production) and send them to the front for a quicker growth. My Panzer Armee commanders have shown an odd tendency to transfer Panzer divisions into infantry Korps....grrrrr
Production seems mighty low, and I know I won't be able to replace losses even in these happy times.
On the Red side, Smolensk held out for 2 weeks before being ordered to withdraw eastward, air supply being made impossible. Pskov was encircled, but supplies were flown in despite heavy losses.
The Soviet air force has lost 11,000 machines but is still quite huge, and experience is growing. (this is staggering)
The dnieper line still holds, anchored at Kiev with one division becoming the 1st Guards rifle division and others I'm sure will upgrade as their experience is topping the 75 mark.
The enemy sits outside vyazma, the units in the vyazma-rhzev line being more or less uniformly strong, and dug in.
To be honest...I think things are tilted severely towards Soviet domination.
Of interest is the appearance of JG-302 equipped with the Bf-109G. I fought off the temptation to switch them to a more available type (the G version not yet entering into production) and send them to the front for a quicker growth. My Panzer Armee commanders have shown an odd tendency to transfer Panzer divisions into infantry Korps....grrrrr
Production seems mighty low, and I know I won't be able to replace losses even in these happy times.
On the Red side, Smolensk held out for 2 weeks before being ordered to withdraw eastward, air supply being made impossible. Pskov was encircled, but supplies were flown in despite heavy losses.
The Soviet air force has lost 11,000 machines but is still quite huge, and experience is growing. (this is staggering)
The dnieper line still holds, anchored at Kiev with one division becoming the 1st Guards rifle division and others I'm sure will upgrade as their experience is topping the 75 mark.
The enemy sits outside vyazma, the units in the vyazma-rhzev line being more or less uniformly strong, and dug in.
To be honest...I think things are tilted severely towards Soviet domination.
Jesus ...., with all respect. This closet germanism is allways killing me.
well maybe your right. after the first winter my panzers were ready to carry on the planned 42 summer offensive. well the Reds launched an offensive in the south in may42. the rumanians 3rd and 4th armies were crushed. only the 11th army with the help of 1st and 2nd panzer armies restored the lines but completely wrecked the german timetable for the offensive. in the north i was able to capture leningrad and force the Reds back. the center also had some victories but the Russian air power seemed to be endless. what was suprising was that the russians were able to even launch an offensive after the losses they had 40k inf 12000 air and 4500 afv. they attacked the rumanians with at least 8 armies with massive strength. they gained control of the air for awhile. so now with the kremlin in sight the germans are stalled. it is now aug 42 with north AG a few hexs past leningrad and looking south . center AG maybe 5 hexs away from moscow and bogged down. south AG stable but still far from savastapol. it is a real challenge
it looked like they massed there aircraft to gain control in the southern area by taking almost all of the ac from other areas i was under attack by 4 hq's with 5 or more ac groups. ithe first time i bombed one of these hq;s i was shocked when they intercepted with over 300 ac. well i am in for a real fight.
After somewhat extensively testing as the Germans I'm most positively pleased, as this forces quite a challenge. One most not enter into foolish battles of attrition as the production is now generally extremely limited, and defending everything means defending nothing - hence aggressive campaigns of mobility to achieve even limited success and encircle forces become desperately needed, and one truly has to plan for the coming offensives.
Though I must say the air war is quickly getting favourable to the Russians, but then again, surely that is better than the regular version where the first possibility for an IL-2 Sturmovik to kill a German tank appears somewhere in -44 or -45 and the first German fighter becomes destroyed in -42... due to the the allied bombing campaign.
Though I must say the air war is quickly getting favourable to the Russians, but then again, surely that is better than the regular version where the first possibility for an IL-2 Sturmovik to kill a German tank appears somewhere in -44 or -45 and the first German fighter becomes destroyed in -42... due to the the allied bombing campaign.
yes you now must commit your panzers carefully and avoid city and swamp engagements. now the russians can gain limited control of the air even in summer 42 and only local. it is a good version of a fine game. i see that mist is working on a version of campaign 41 also does anyone know how it going. i try to play as many versions that i can find. it is nice to be retired and have all the time in the world for this
Week 7 as Ivan and some somewhat catastrophic happenings for both sides. For me, my opponent has just crossed the Dneiper midway twixt Kiev and dneprovplask...or whatever it's called... Also, he's blasted through my Demjansk area (I didn't have enough corps to occupy it fully) and severed all the rail lines to Moscow. Yes, his panzers are way outta supply. But those red generals...when told to go west than east, opt for the short walk east. The others sit on their hands. I have about 12 corps outta supply whereas he has 3...
In the air, I was able to launch some massive raids destroying a huge chunk of his airpower. In the south Moscow area, 3 Jagdgeschwaderen kept me from having any impact. But in the Kalinin and central dneiper area, soviet airpower reigns supreme. The bombers took a licking but kept on going. I guess when there are 150 in the air, a loss of 25 makes no big difference. Anyway, at the end of the turn, my air losses totalled 844 to his 794. Hardly seems right, does it? For this one, looks like optional rules would do good to hamper both sides.
In my german game, I'm awaiting my opponent's next. I'd overextended my panzers, causing them to take some serious losses to red air.
In the air, I was able to launch some massive raids destroying a huge chunk of his airpower. In the south Moscow area, 3 Jagdgeschwaderen kept me from having any impact. But in the Kalinin and central dneiper area, soviet airpower reigns supreme. The bombers took a licking but kept on going. I guess when there are 150 in the air, a loss of 25 makes no big difference. Anyway, at the end of the turn, my air losses totalled 844 to his 794. Hardly seems right, does it? For this one, looks like optional rules would do good to hamper both sides.
In my german game, I'm awaiting my opponent's next. I'd overextended my panzers, causing them to take some serious losses to red air.
Jesus ...., with all respect. This closet germanism is allways killing me.