Difficult

[Mike Parker]

I have played alot of wargames like this... from Tactics II through many versions of computer games. I just cannot seem to make my way vrs the AI on balanced (I have not tried handicapped as it is supoposedly bugged right now). The AI can produce units at a much fast rate than I can when I play the same faction... and I have analyed the PP system pretty closely and I cannot imagine I am doing anything wrong, not enough so that the AI seems to have about twice the number of extra units (i.e. built over starting) than I can manage in the same time period. I.E. I play the Entente and look at Serbia and build units through turn 6.. then I play the CP and on turn 6 the units I can SEE (although I purposefully do things stupid to see extra units) is about double what I would have been able to build.

[TheWombat_matrixforum]

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

I have played alot of wargames like this... from Tactics II through many versions of computer games. I just cannot seem to make my way vrs the AI on balanced (I have not tried handicapped as it is supoposedly bugged right now). The AI can produce units at a much fast rate than I can when I play the same faction... and I have analyed the PP system pretty closely and I cannot imagine I am doing anything wrong, not enough so that the AI seems to have about twice the number of extra units (i.e. built over starting) than I can manage in the same time period. I.E. I play the Entente and look at Serbia and build units through turn 6.. then I play the CP and on turn 6 the units I can SEE (although I purposefully do things stupid to see extra units) is about double what I would have been able to build.

I have no idea whether I'm just not doing something right, or whether the AI side gets some bonuses to production even on Normal difficulty, but I've seen the same thing you're mentioning. Now, I haven't done a unit count or anything but man, the computer seems to never have any shortage of people--and the AI's front line is always kept replaced and probably upgraded from what I can tell.

Playing the CP, I simply don't have the manpower to stop the Russians, much less beat them. That leads to a chain of events that results in failure in the West, too.

Of course, there are several possibilities. One is that I simply suck; entirely possible! Another is that the AI is getting bonuses--no idea if this is true, but it would help explain things. A third is that the Russians, at the very least, are represented with more combat power and flexibility than would have been the case historically--they certainly seem able to go toe to toe with the Kaiser's best a lot more handily than they actually did. Hell, the freakin' Austrians do better against the Russians than the Germans do!

One thing that I do see that I actually think might be worth looking into is the effect of winter and mountains both. It seems way too easy to conduct extensive and relatively rapidly moving campaigns through the Alps. The Italians, when they enter the game, seem to be far more mobile and effective than either history or the map would warrant. And the ability of armies in general to roam about in enemy territory fairly rapidly--infantry, even garrison infantry here, not cavalry--does seem a bit off.

The game is quite good overall, of course, but I am curious about some of these things.

[Mike Parker]

I agree I love the game, and perhaps I am just doing things horribly wrong, but i never had this degree of hardship fighting the AI in the WWII game this came from nor the Napoleonic war version.

Most definatly the AI on normal gets alot more PP than a similar human player. The few successes I have had against the AI have so far been rather gamey... in other words a human would severly punish me but by trial and error I know the AI won't. Mostly though I get my behind shelacked and try to come up with something else. And it has been from both sides I have seen this.

[Myrddraal]

The AI shouldn't get any production bonuses on 'Balanced'.

[Mike Parker]

I will make sure I am not doing something wrong... but in my experience the Serbians on Balanced AI settings sure out produce me when I play them... they are the only ones I have done a look at... but it seems the same is true of every AI controlled nation. Literally at turn 6 I see more units than it is possible for me to field as human controlled Serbians.

[Myrddraal]

You said in the other thread (about mp):

It always seems when playing multiplayer that 'the other guy' is doing better in your estimating than in his own! At least it seems that way to me, my brother and I just got a game going and it seems that way to me!

I think this happens in SP too [:)]

Having said that, if you want to upload a savegame here I could have a look at it just to be sure.

[Mike Parker]

I'll set something up and send you a savegame to look at. It won't be till tomorrow most likely. What I will do is play a game with me as the Entente, and build as many units as I can through turn 6 and keep a log of my economics and units lost... then I will play a game as the CP and on turn 6 do my best to 'hug' the Serbians to get a look at his unit count.

[Mike Parker]

Let me know how to send you the save games.

With me as Serbia after 6 turns I had with at-start and builds

7 Garr
3 Inf
Nothing in the build Que
0pp
+3pp/turn

I have turn by turn details of what I spent if you need them

With the AI playing Serbia after 6 turns I could see
6 Garr
3 Inf

I have no idea what her build que nor PP total or per turn are however.

[Fred98]

Place the file into a ZIP file and upoad to this thread.

Then everybody interested can take a look.

[Mike Parker]

alrighty... well I got the .zip file, but when i try and upload it the response is it is not the proper file type... to be honest it claims ot support only txt gif and jpg? Am I trying to upload in the wrong manner?

[Bossy573]

I get trounced every time I play against the AI. Definitely not easy.

I suspect I need to get out of an attack everything, everywhere frame of mind.

[Fred98]

I have uploaded ZIp files a few times.

It seems they are no longer supported.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Bossy573

I get trounced every time I play against the AI. Definitely not easy.

I suspect I need to get out of an attack everything, everywhere frame of mind.

warspite1

I think if you play the CP you HAVE to have that frame of mind early on. With the Entente you definitely need to NOT have that frame of mind imo.

[Empire101]

I do feel that the Serbian Army is a little overpowered, making the AH's mission to finish them very difficult within the historical time frame.

[Myrddraal]

The trick to beating the Serbs is to outmanoeuvre them. They start with a large army, but their economy can't support much more. You don't need to worry about the Serbian army expanding.

They start with a large force which is well entrenched. You won't be able to shift them through direct assault or attrition. Try instead to outflank them. Create salients where they leave a gap. Threaten to cut off their forces and you will force them to abandon their entrenched positions. This way you can capture Belgrade, and the economic blow caused by the loss of Belgrade can be enough to cause the chain reaction you need to roll them all the way back to the Greek border.

Serbia has a tough outer shell, but they don't have any reserves, economic or military.

[EUBanana]

I find, playing as the Entente, that with Austria, Germany and the Ottomans all gunning for them the Russians are seriously overstretched. They may have a lot of manpower but their industry is not huge, and they have enormously wide fronts to cover. That translates to a high percentage of garrisons in the Russian army if you intend to hold territory.

And garrisons will crack when faced with a determined assault. Especially in the beginning before the Russians have the industrial warfare tech researched, they just fold like a napkin at any real pressure. My setup as Russians now is strictly defensive, I don't even try and defend Warsaw any more but pretty much dig in immediately where they start, and focus on all the defensive technologies. Attacking Konigsberg is right out unless you have a death wish - garrisons are rather inflexible too as they are almost worthless on the attack. If you can catch the Russians without entrenchment they suffer horribly in my experience as well, which has led me to needing even more garrisons to build second lines of defence as otherwise if the front collapses it can be almost impossible for them to bring things to a halt again.

Incidentally as the Entente I find that unless you move everything spare northwards immediately on the Western Front then the Schlieffen Plan usually works, a testament to the AI. If you had a personal house rule that stated "on turn 1 France must attack towards Alsace-Lorraine and is not allowed to move any units towards the Belgian border", as they did historically, then the Germans would probably take Paris more often then not! (I think the AI is much better than I am. [:'(])

[Mike Parker]

Either I am managing my economy wrong or the AI on balanced is getting a PP boost. Perhaps I am spending manpower foolishly and it is lowering my PP but there are way too many AI troops arrayed against me... the term 'endless hordes' is applicable no matter which side I play the other side seems to have inexhaustible units to plug into holes.

Are me and my brother the only two folks experiencing this?

[Myrddraal]

You're definitely playing on Balanced? (both other difficulty levels give bonuses to the AI)

[jack54]

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

Either I am managing my economy wrong or the AI on balanced is getting a PP boost. Perhaps I am spending manpower foolishly and it is lowering my PP but there are way too many AI troops arrayed against me... the term 'endless hordes' is applicable no matter which side I play the other side seems to have inexhaustible units to plug into holes.

Are me and my brother the only two folks experiencing this?

You are not alone, I am finding the same thing, first full campaign as Entante on 'Balanced' and I am being overwhelmed seemingly everywhere. I watch the AI attack and I am Amazed...

[Bossy573]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I think if you play the CP you HAVE to have that frame of mind early on. With the Entente you definitely need to NOT have that frame of mind imo.

I have played the CP every game and the Entente just overwhelms. Have gotten close to Paris but never with a real chance to take it. I love the challenge, but I would like to win just once. [:)]

Anyway, I was thinking over my strategy for the next game and I think I'm going to stop short in the West and go all out in the east. See how that goes. And I am waiting for my hard copy to arrive so I can read the manual and see what nuances I am missing.

Maybe I'll try a game as the Entente as well.