All out war!

[joshuamnave]

This is an AAR of my "just for fun" scenario. In this scenario, the Axis powers declare war on all Allied major powers in the second impulse of Sep/Oct 39, and the allies in turn declare war on every minor in the game. The result is US production at 50 on the first turn of the game, while the Axis powers have to work hard to get all the minor resources back home. Based on a limited playthrough I think the advantage is pretty heavily in the Allies favor. To help give the Axis a fighting chance, Poland will not align with the CW, giving Germany an automatic conquer. I also plan to do most of the allied setup as if it were a normal game, most notably a single inf corps in Gibraltar.

Finally, I'm adapting two self imposed house rules -

1) Oil dependency: I hate the production manager screen and all of it's "quirks" and have no interest fighting with it any more than I have to, so I won't be using the optional oil rules. Instead I'll be using a modified form of oil rules from an earlier version of WiF. Each country must have one oil transported to a factory for each of the following units it builds: Armor and Mech corps (incl HQ), air units costing more than 2, the first cycle of all ships and subs (but not cps), and 2 oil per O-chit. Note that these units don't cost anything extra to build, but there must be at least that much oil used in production (or available to be used). Oil that can't be transported home is not available for this purpose (but oil that could be transported home but isn't because the software chooses to transport a non oil resource instead is still usable).

2) Because Germany can't declare Vichy if the US and Germany are at war, I'm adopting a special rule for French surrender. I call it the France (doesn't) Stand Alone rule. If Paris is under Axis control and all of the following are true, France will surrender at the end of the turn: 1) the Axis control Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Syria, Gibraltar and Madrid, 2) There are no in supply US or UK troops in France north of Vichy.

So on to the game! Here's a shot of the optional rules in play.

[joshuamnave]

The US setup with the pacific fleet in San Diego and the Atlantic fleet in Norfolk. They do not set up the trade route to Japan (just to save me the hassle of bringing it down on the first Naval move). Nimitz and the engineer set up in El Paso, ready to lead an American attack into Mexico, along with a LND. They also set up a convoy line to the UK.

Russia sets up ready to take out Persia and Romania before they can be reinforced. This leaves Siberia empty, but the Japanese will be spread far too thin to take advantage of this. Maybe. Either way, Italy can start railing units into Persia on turn one and Turkey will be ready to rumble as well. The oil fields are far too valuable to let that go unchallenged.

Italy sets up with 3 inf divisions in La Spezia along with the fleet, ready to drop on Gibraltar and Cypruss. Balbo is ready to lead a force of mostly Libyans into Egypt, backed up by a mech corps sitting on a transport.

China is always tricky for me to setup. I don't play China well apparently, because in most of my solitaire games Japan manages to conquer it or at least reduce their production to 0, which might as well be the same thing. This time Japan has more on its plate from turn 1 than just China, which will spread it a bit thin. On the other hand, Japan will have access to all of the NEI resources immediately, assuming they can defend the convoy line. China's goal is just to get in Japan's way. Here's an overview of the setup:

[joshuamnave]

The Commonwealth has a different set of problems. The convoy route around Africa is untenable early in the game. The Axis can attack it with Spanish, Portuguese, Brazilian, and Argentinian naval units, along with Italian subs and once Gibraltar falls, the Italian navy. Convoys from Australia to the western US can be hit by Chilean and Peruvian ships. The Panama canal will be in Axis hands, and many of the Resources in Africa are easy grabs for Italian, Belgian and Liberian units. The Venezuelan resources will go to the Axis, Trinidad is a one move conquer for Venezuelan forces, and even if that weren't true, the South American navies can decimate convoys going through the Central Atlantic. The free cp's the CW normally gets from Denmark, the Netherlands and sometimes Greece will all belong to the Axis instead. With this in mind, the CW doesn't set up any convoys other than East Coast, North Atlantic and Faroes Gap. The US will have to make up the difference in the early game, until such time as the CW can adequately defend her convoys going around Africa. If it seems a bit defeatist, that's because it is. But the alternative is to spend more BP's rebuilding CP's than they are bringing in.

With the US available to reinforce France without those pesky HQ limitations, the UK will instead send troops to attack Norway and try to open up the Baltic for her navy. In the interests of a fair fight, as noted above, only one corps will set up in Gibraltar.

For those curious, the HMS Warspite is given a job fitting her age and speed. She'll be escorting convoys in the North Atlantic.

The Pacific fleet goes in Singapore. Japan is ill prepared to defend her convoys in 1939 and the British hope to make that hurt. They won't likely be able to defend Rabaul or Hong Kong, but they can make the Japanese bleed a little.

[joshuamnave]

France also has a new set of challenges. She will be attacked from Spain and Switzerland and possibly Italy. Belgium and Netherlands aren't a speedbump for Germany - in fact, they're helping the attack! How much can France reasonably pull from the Belgian border to defend against the other threats? To make matters worse, their best Inf unit started in Algeria, so that's going to have to come home leaving North Africa devoid of any defense. And her navy will have to flee to Senegal ASAP before they are cut off, or they have little hope of surviving to fight on as Free French. That means France will have to build militia until they get the Senegalese or risk losing it to the Liberians. For much the same reason as the British, they stash most of their convoys in Senegal, ready to be used later for sending BP's to Free France. A few are used to set up supply for Gibraltar and Egypt, but even those have a limited life expectancy.

[joshuamnave]

Japan may be the trickiest of all to set up. They certainly have the most options. Another way of looking at that is they have too much they need to do and not nearly enough units to do it.

Garrison Truk and Kwajalein. Take Rabaul, Hong Kong and Manila. Threaten Vladivostok. Take Hanoi. Singapore. Protect their convoys from NEI. Oh yah, fight China. They can't do everything, so it's a matter of triage. Fortunately the US is busy with Mexico, so Truk and Kawajalein can wait. Same with Hanoi and Singapore. Rabaul is a closer call, but I want to knock out the Philippines first, take Vladivostok, and keep the pressure on China. I deployed most of the army in the north to take out the communists before they become a threat, leaving a screening force in central/south China.

[joshuamnave]

Germany declares war on Poland, and for once gets a US entry chit. Irony. Poland surrenders. Japan aligns Siam. Germany takes a combined and does nothing. They want to move their fleet out of harms way, but they aren't allowed to take a naval action and on a combined they can only move one ship. Italy takes a combined and moves one ship with a division into the Eastern Med. Next turn they'll invade Cyprus. Japan takes a combined and sails 2 transports loaded with marines, an amphib with Yamamoto and another transport with an infantry corp into the China sea. Macarthur is out of supply and with any luck they'll be able to flip him on the surprise impulse. Note that Japan does not start the game with their o-chit.

Here's how it looks in China now.

[joshuamnave]

The Wallies declare war on Germany and all the reserves are called out. France takes a naval action to move their fleet to safety and to bring home the infantry in Algeria. The CW also takes a naval, sets up her convoy escorts, and brings the rest of the fleet into the North Sea along with Gort, 3 corps and a division, bound for Norway. Russia takes a combined, but can no longer occupy eastern Poland. Of course they can move in as soon as they're at war, which will be soon. One Russian submarine moves into the Baltic sea. Decent chance that's the last time Russia will move a naval unit.

I've been brutalized too many times by German subs. These days when it comes to convoy defense, I don't mess around. I consider this to be a bare minimum convoy defense for FG, but early in the war it should suffice.

[joshuamnave]

The Pacific fleet moves into the South China Sea. There are no CP's there yet - Japan will move them out on impulse 3 along with a similar convoy defense force. But the UK is ready to fight when they do. In the North Atlantic, only the 0 and 1 boxes are covered. Until France falls, Germany can't really hit the North Atlantic in force, so a smaller escort is fine. The US will cover the east coast.

The French fleet sails out to Cape St Vincent. In addition to it being their waypoint on the way to Senegal, it also will help defend the supply line to Gibraltar this turn. The sub set up in Djibouti and now sails east.

In China, the communists occupy Chengtu. It makes no difference to the Chinese production who owns the factories, and this will preserve the communists should the Japanese reach Lanchow.

The next impulse begins with inclement weather. Better now than later - Germany can't do much until Impulse 3, following the massive allied DOW on everyone. In the mean time, Italy, German and Japan declare on the US. Italy and Japan also declare on Russia while Germany and Italy declare on China.

[joshuamnave]

And because I forgot - Italy and Japan also declare on France and the UK. Only Germany and Russia remain at peace, and only because the rules mandate it.

[joshuamnave]

All of the US Entry options go into effect. The US elects to trade in the Bearn for a transport. Note that the US will not get Iceland and Greenland because they will be declaring war on Denmark before that option is resolved. After the US production bumps, here's how things look for them. The US will be able to build out most of their force pool in 39 and 40, assuming losses in France and elsewhere are low. Note that the 3 oil resources they receive in trade will go poof next impulse, when they declare war on Venezuela. But they have more than enough to make up the loss.

[brian brian]

“We may be destroyed but, if we are, we shall drag a world with us - A World in Flames”
Adolf Hitler, 1932

[joshuamnave]

Here's a possible bug - Russia only calls out its Siberian reserves, even though Italy declared war on them. They'll get the rest when they go to war with Germany, but shouldn't they get them now? I don't remember the rule off the top of my head. At any rate, they reinforce Vladivostok for now.

Germany passes. They really can't do anything until next impulse. Italy takes a combined and sails the rest of the fleet, carrying 2 inf Divisions, into the Western Med. In the Eastern Med, they invade Cyprus with an auto attack. Japan curses the weather, and takes a naval, bringing out the convoys and their escorts. The CW wants to search for the convoys but I've just realize that I forgot to supply them. I'll fix that next turn. From now on they'll sail out of Calcutta instead of Singapore.

On the allied half of the impulse, they all 4 declare war on everyone but Nepal. Russia can't delcare on Finland or Romania, but it can (and did) demand the border hexes. Germany of course said no, so they're at war anyway.

Countries with a significant naval presence I gave to Italy. They'll take naval actions far more often than Germany. The Netherlands went to Japan. Yugoslavia I would rather give to Italy but they have something Germany will desperately need early in the war - an HQ unit. The African countries went to Italy. Turkey and the Balkans save Greece went to Germany. Italy got Spain and Portugal. Chile and Peru, whose navies are less useful, went to Germany along with Mexico. Argentina and Brazil went to Italy. Here's how the world looks now:

[yvesp]

I never put any convoy in the Faeroes Gap, which is easily within reach of the German subs.
Until France falls (usually the whole war), I use the Bay of Biscay. Even with Spain at war,
I'd still do so : subs are more dangerous than SCS for the British.

I find that usually 2-3 cruisers are enough to defend convoys, plus a land based plane in the 0 box
(can remove 4 point of surprise by forcing Germany to have to select explicitely a sub
battle, otherwise you can yourself select a naval air battle...) ; of course, since you may expect
the Spanish fleet to do harm, you need more.

Another cruiser or two in the 4 box may help (but CV are ok too.)

In your picture, the CV in box 1 is pretty much useless : I believe it could be more usefull
in the 0 box.

Anyway, your idea is interesting. The axis will very likely win : the allies have too much on
their hands.


By the way, your move is defensive, and I think you cannot afford it: you must disable the
minor countries fleet as fast as possible. Port striking the Spanish fleet comes on top :
this doubles up with the fact that either Germnay reacts by moving the fleet out of port,
still risking a naval combat, and renouncing a land action, or acccept the risk of the port
attack.

Going into Norway was the historical move (which never happens in standard WiF play as it
would require its own special rule) ; but it is bound to fail: the allies have not enough
land power to dislodge the Norvegians mountains units ; furthermore, you're entering winter...
And of course, Norway is not menacing ; cutting the Baltic is worthless: Germany can
perfectly live without the 4 resources from Sweden/Finland. In addition, with the rules
you've chosen, only one division can invade : if it fails, the whole naval move will serve
no purpose (but you can still land 3 of these units in France! I'm unsure about French coop
with the British once the US are in the war, but I believe it is unchanged.)

So, as the allies, I would use all available air naval power to clean up the Atlantic
(including the US Pacific naval forces) ; prepare division level invasions against targets
that have no défenses (at +21) so as to conquer territories that border the Atlantic
(e.g. Netherland Guyana.) ; I'd leave one convoy in each med area (east/west) to prevent
easy Italian invasions (e.g. Cyprus, but later Egypt)

The theme is interesting, but the allies will rout very fast. I would find it more interesting
if you'd keep the allies their natural allies at least, these countries that either have an
ongoing trade agreement (Persia, Venezuela), and these that can be aligned (Brazil, Mexico,
Panama.) Poland should not automatically fall.
In your setup, France should fall within 3 turns, or at least be seriously invaded from all
sides. Russia will follow very fast with a devastating "Barbarossa 40" (but as a matter of
fact, I'd make it a "Barbarossa 39" and just enter Russia after the fall of Poland.) Egypt
should then fall very fast (you should be able to rail two German corps to help the Türks.)
Gibraltar, well, it's a matter of luck how long it stands. With a crippled Commonwealth which
will have a pathetic production (few resources), that leaves only the USA.


Germany can afford to rail a unit or two to Rumania and Russia is not yet a threat.
Especially if you consider that they'll have to soon deal with Swedish and Finnish units.
Turkey can attack Syria and close on Egypt.
Persia is not at risk as it has time to close the mountains.
France is not able to contain the threats by the minors : Spain + Swiss + Belgium + Netherland
is hard ; but if you add in Italy and even half the German army, it should be reduced to
little very soon, unless the US sends massive reinforcements, but they don't have them because
at the start of the game they have few units, and these will be needed at least to prevent the
Mexican to enter into the USA and risk them destroying factories/oilfields.
The Japanese should consider the immediate invasion of Honolulu which might be undefended
and easily put OoS. I'd consider rebasing half the Japanese fleet to Panama, just to give
the allies something to ponder : but the problem would be keeping it in supply.

[brian brian]

The bulk of Russia's reserves only appear upon war with Germany.

[Courtenay]

With Spain at war with France, I most certainly would put forces in the Faroes Gap. I do so anyway, actually, when I expect French to eventually fall. What I don't do is waste carriers in the zero and one boxes. A NAV adjacent to the Faroes gap does the job just as well, and much more cheaply.

If you are playing that France will surrender when, among others, Algeria falls, I certainly would not have pulled units out of Algeria. I would have used the US's surprise impulse to invade adjacent to Caracas; those six resources are too good not to grab quickly. The CW can only set up one corps in Gibraltar anyway; however, once they declare war on Spain, they should get another unit in there quickly.

Unlike yves, I do not have a good feel for who will win. But it should be fun.

[Courtenay]

I would like to suggest a name for this scenario: "Everyone into the pond!" [:)]

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: yvesp


In your picture, the CV in box 1 is pretty much useless : I believe it could be more usefull
in the 0 box.

There is also a CV in the 0 box. The CV in the 1 box is extremely useful. At the end of the turn it will stay at sea, starting the following turn in the 0 box. That way if the Axis have the initiative, the convoys are still defended.

By the way, your move is defensive, and I think you cannot afford it: you must disable the
minor countries fleet as fast as possible. Port striking the Spanish fleet comes on top :
this doubles up with the fact that either Germnay reacts by moving the fleet out of port,
still risking a naval combat, and renouncing a land action, or acccept the risk of the port
attack.

Port striking from where? The CW carrier planes aren't strong enough to do much, and Gibraltar should fall quickly to the Spanish, backed up by the Italian fleet. And the Spanish are in Italian hands, not German, precisely because Italy is more free to take naval actions.

Going into Norway was the historical move (which never happens in standard WiF play as it
would require its own special rule) ; but it is bound to fail: the allies have not enough
land power to dislodge the Norvegians mountains units ; furthermore, you're entering winter...
And of course, Norway is not menacing ; cutting the Baltic is worthless: Germany can
perfectly live without the 4 resources from Sweden/Finland. In addition, with the rules
you've chosen, only one division can invade : if it fails, the whole naval move will serve
no purpose (but you can still land 3 of these units in France! I'm unsure about French coop
with the British once the US are in the war, but I believe it is unchanged.)

A british division invading on a suprise impulse is an auto win. And even if that were not true, the units in the North Sea who are intended for follow up landings in Norway could still land in France following a failed invasion of Norway. Taking out Norway makes it much easier to secure Murmansk convoys - remember the choice isn't between leaving Norway neutral or attacking, Norway is now in the war as a German ally. And there's no need to attack the Norwegians in the mountains. And yes, the CW still needs HQ support to enter France. The US does not.

So, as the allies, I would use all available air naval power to clean up the Atlantic
(including the US Pacific naval forces)

That's a bit tricky since the Panama canal is closed to the US Pacific fleet.

; prepare division level invasions against targets
that have no défenses (at +21) so as to conquer territories that border the Atlantic
(e.g. Netherland Guyana.)

How is Dutch Guyana more strategically important than Norway? I don't understand why you would ignore Norway but take out Dutch Guyana. And the +21 thing applies to Norway too, so no failed invasion.

; I'd leave one convoy in each med area (east/west) to prevent
easy Italian invasions (e.g. Cyprus, but later Egypt)

The convoy doesn't prevent an Italian invasion of Cyprus. Italy invaded Cyprus on the surprise impulse, when it was in supply, and it was still a +21 attack. Once Spain is an active Italian minor, the UK has no hope of maintaining convoys in the Med.

The theme is interesting, but the allies will rout very fast. I would find it more interesting
if you'd keep the allies their natural allies at least, these countries that either have an
ongoing trade agreement (Persia, Venezuela), and these that can be aligned (Brazil, Mexico,
Panama.) Poland should not automatically fall.
In your setup, France should fall within 3 turns, or at least be seriously invaded from all
sides. Russia will follow very fast with a devastating "Barbarossa 40" (but as a matter of
fact, I'd make it a "Barbarossa 39" and just enter Russia after the fall of Poland.) Egypt
should then fall very fast (you should be able to rail two German corps to help the Türks.)
Gibraltar, well, it's a matter of luck how long it stands. With a crippled Commonwealth which
will have a pathetic production (few resources), that leaves only the USA.

It leaves a US with 50 BP's in 39, going up to over 60 in Sep/Oct '40. That's more than the combined Axis total. Even with just convoys running to the US/Canada, the UK gets double digit BP's. Russia also gets an early bump, assuming the Axis moves in to Russia. Taking France out that quickly, in the winter, with US units coming in, isn't as easy as you seem to think. In Sep/Oct, there will be 2 US artillery units. In Nov/Dec, there will be at minimum 1 Inf Corps, and it goes up from there. The US units are stronger than the CW units they are replacing and have much greater freedom of deployment. Germany can't declare Vichy, and my house rule makes it tough to force a French surrender - probably impossible by your timeline. And even if France were to last only 3 turns, you would still have a D-Day size American force in France by early '41. The only thing slowing down an invasion will be Amphibs.

Germany could ignore France and hit Russia in 39, but that gives the US free reign to move into France for a year, and then Germany is toast. To hit France, Germany really needs 2 of their 3 initial HQ's, which greatly limits their options in Russia.

Germany can afford to rail a unit or two to Rumania and Russia is not yet a threat.
Especially if you consider that they'll have to soon deal with Swedish and Finnish units.

Yes, I expect Germany to win the early part of the war, as always.

Turkey can attack Syria and close on Egypt.
Persia is not at risk as it has time to close the mountains.

Yes, Italy should take out Syria, Palestine, Trans Jordan and Egypt without too much trouble. Persia has only 2 small units and Russia will attack in '39 before Italy can rail in reinforcements. They may not take Persia out, but they can also block the mountains and protect the oilfields.

France is not able to contain the threats by the minors : Spain + Swiss + Belgium + Netherland
is hard ; but if you add in Italy and even half the German army, it should be reduced to
little very soon, unless the US sends massive reinforcements, but they don't have them because
at the start of the game they have few units, and these will be needed at least to prevent the
Mexican to enter into the USA and risk them destroying factories/oilfields.

If Mexico enters the US, the US production goes from 50 to 60. I'm not playing with factory construction/destruction. Any Mexican units that do cross the border will be easy to get rid of. That said, the US does need to secure their border and yes, some of their initial units will be tasked to an invasion of Mexico.

The Japanese should consider the immediate invasion of Honolulu which might be undefended
and easily put OoS. I'd consider rebasing half the Japanese fleet to Panama, just to give
the allies something to ponder : but the problem would be keeping it in supply.

Immediate is a bit of a stretch. It would take a minimum of two turns. The moment a Japanese division or marine unit lands in Truk or Kwajalein with a naval unit close enough to carry them to Pearl where they can invade from the 3 box, the US will garrison it. And even if not, good luck keeping an invading force in supply. The US fleet is stronger and will grow faster. The Japanese must devote a chunk of their fleet to protecting their convoys from NEI, and in your scenario must also protect the supply line to Hawaii. And putting their fleet in Panama is just begging for it to be port struck. Not to mention Panama is a German ally and the Japanese can't base their fleet there.

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

With Spain at war with France, I most certainly would put forces in the Faroes Gap. I do so anyway, actually, when I expect French to eventually fall. What I don't do is waste carriers in the zero and one boxes. A NAV adjacent to the Faroes gap does the job just as well, and much more cheaply.

True, but a CV also has inherent ASW factors. Keeping one in the 4 box increases my chances of sinking some subs. Having one in all 3 boxes makes it easy to rotate them. Usually I just use 3 cruisers per box until France falls, but in this game I'll have to deal with a greater naval threat than normal. I'll pull the Ark Royal out of the rotation as soon as I have another class 2 CV to replace it.

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay
I would have used the US's surprise impulse to invade adjacent to Caracas; those six resources are too good not to grab quickly. The CW can only set up one corps in Gibraltar anyway; however, once they declare war on Spain, they should get another unit in there quickly.

I'm on the surprise impulse now (actually I'm still setting up minor units.) There's a storm in Venezuela, so that option is unavailable to me. Plus the Venezuelans could set up their unit there.

With all of the South American countries including Venezuela, the problem isn't recapturing them - it's a) too many things to do and b) safely transporting the resources once you've done it. I could invade Venezuela. I can conquer Mexico. I can garrison the Pacific. I can reinforce France. I can't do all of them at once.

[Courtenay]

OK, if there is a storm, that is a great reason not to invade.

The only Venezuelan unit is a MIL, which should not come on the map until turn two.