German tanks vs British tanks, seems odd

[Gripen]

At the moment I'm playing a lot of GWTC and what I'm finding out is that VS the AI it seems the British tanks are much more accurate. The first few times I was like ok bad luck but I can literally play battles over and over the same happens, even when I properly outflank them. I need 3 Panzer IVH on one British tank, be it Cromwell or Churchill.

Is this something that is a known issue? Because to me it seems the IVH must be at least on par with the British tanks if they aren't better?

I'm running the v1.02 steam version. If you need more info let me know

[Kanov]

The pz4 has very thin armor, even a mortar can manage to disable one as I got the gunner of one of my panzer 4 killed after a constant barrage of 3 mortar tubes which interestingly enough, the AI kept pounding it until it expended all its mortar ammo, so the AI knows too that pz 4 are made of paper[:D]

[Housies]

The Panzer IV get's shot pretty easily indeed. In my multiplayer games against british churchill tanks it's usually 2:1 ratio.

[Gripen]

I had a game versus a lot of Shermans, no problem at all hitting them, switch back to Churchills and I'll have to be as careful as I can be. Flank them, quickly roll out take one shot, hope not being killed and move back. And kinda repeat that... One on one, won't work AT ALL.

But ok... I guess I'll just have to live with it. I'm kind of using them as infantry support and avoid contact with other Churchill's as much as possible and just hope to take out HQ units so the moral drops.

Also Tigers vs Churchills, kinda the same thing but they do hit a lot more.

[Housies]

ORIGINAL: Gripen

I had a game versus a lot of Shermans, no problem at all hitting them, switch back to Churchills and I'll have to be as careful as I can be. Flank them, quickly roll out take one shot, hope not being killed and move back. And kinda repeat that... One on one, won't work AT ALL.

But ok... I guess I'll just have to live with it. I'm kind of using them as infantry support and avoid contact with other Churchill's as much as possible and just hope to take out HQ units so the moral drops.

Also Tigers vs Churchills, kinda the same thing but they do hit a lot more.

Same here. Don't know if it's historical but it sure helps in game balancing.

[Kanov]

To add fuel to this [:D]













But really, those 3 Panzer IV fired at least 5 shots against the firefly.

In another ocassion, all the platoon was destroyed by two shermans, pretty embarassing, I don't know why Germany contiuned to produce the Panzer IV if it was such a piece of junk. [:@]

[Kanov]

Here it is the platoon that was destroyed by two shermans.

3x Pz 4 and a StuG. The Panthers are from another BG that has already advanced to the next map.


imagen

[Housies]

That's really bad luck. The panzers should not perform that bad. BUt it can happen indeed.

[SteveMcClaire]

The stock game has the same base accuracy for most tank guns, and the crew experience and morale ratings are usually the same for both side (the SS tanks can have higher experience but I have not sorted through all the unitstructure data and forcepools to see what BGs get those.)

The only difference I can see in the screenshot-engagement is that the Sherman is firing its smoke discharger. Once that goes off, all tanks firing through the smoke have a low chance to make an accurate hit. While the 3 vs. 1 engagement should still result in a win for the 3 (as it did) there is going to be more random luck involved when they're firing at each other through smoke.

Steve

[Kanov]

I'll buy that.

Just had two consecutive battles with no losses for the Panzer 4.

[STIENER]

the MK 4 is a superior tank to the Sherman. the mk 4 has a better gun than the Sherman and the Churchill. the german 75 mm has much more punch and accuracie and should kill at long ranges easily. the mk 4 has good armour and there not junk...they were the main battle tank for the germans thru most of the war.the Churchill in this game is an up armoured version and is hard for a mk 4 to kill. the panthers and tigers should be able to kill this Mark of Churchill tho, altho the game doesn't reflect this well. the mk 4's should make a better account of themselves in this game but they don't for some reason. one reason is the cant hit the broad side of a barn syndrome that matrix has taken since TLD.
its a shame really.

[STIENER]

oh ya...and smoke dischargers...the germans used them more than the allies did. why is it most allied tanks in GWTC have them now? [ LSA too ] I don't recall shermans and FF's having smoke dichargers at all. the Mk 4 and tigers did tho.

[SteveMcClaire]

M4 Shermans produced mid-war (I don't have exact dates handy but I think it was much of 1943 and 44) had a short 2" smoke mortar built in. It fired through a hole in the turret roof.

My understanding was that the Germans tried external smoke-dischargers on their tank turrets in 1942-43 but removed them because the smoke candles would be set off by small arms or artillery fire, which left the tank (and crew) stuck in a cloud of smoke until it burned out. At least some German tanks produced later in the war had built in smoke dischargers (via the Nahverteidigungswaffe.)

Gateway to Caen is a fairly early Normandy time-frame. Both sides are still fighting with late-1943 equipment and organizations, for the most part. So I think the smoke discharger availability in the game is roughly correct.

Steve

[vobbnobb]

ORIGINAL: STIENER

the MK 4 is a superior tank to the Sherman. the mk 4 has a better gun than the Sherman and the Churchill. the german 75 mm has much more punch and accuracie and should kill at long ranges easily. the mk 4 has good armour and there not junk...they were the main battle tank for the germans thru most of the war.the Churchill in this game is an up armoured version and is hard for a mk 4 to kill. the panthers and tigers should be able to kill this Mark of Churchill tho, altho the game doesn't reflect this well. the mk 4's should make a better account of themselves in this game but they don't for some reason. one reason is the cant hit the broad side of a barn syndrome that matrix has taken since TLD.
its a shame really.

A sherman could easily take out the mark iv with a frontal shot and with a flank shot not much armor. The earlier mark iv's easy target. Later when the mark iv upgraded to a high velocity 75 watch out sherman! I think they were equal, mark iv was I believe a hair better.

[STIENER]

the german tanks don't seem to pop smoke at all in GWTC and LSA but the allied tanks all do now. its an advantage to the tank that pops smoke when its fired at. it would have been nice to see the option for both sides as both sides have the capability historically.

[CGGrognard]

Jumping in late to this discussion, but I must add this context to armor on both sides. In a recent battle, I had a Tiger and a Panther square off against a Churchill Crocidille. The Tiger and Panther and even the Crocodille scored several hits. Only after a couple minutes of exchanging fire was the Crocodille destroyed. The Tiger had is right armor exposed, while the Panther had its left armor exposed. The Crocodille had its front armor exposed.

[vobbnobb]

You have to tank in account the crews experience, if a tanks crew member is killed say the driver, and a new member joins the crew he is going to turn weakest armor to enemy, drive backwards etc and make mistakes like that in the first battles because he doesn't know better. (unless he is in command team circle?)

If the gunner is killed and is replaced by a greenhorn he is going to make horrid shots.

If an elite loader is killed the replacement will take ages to reload a shell.

if radio op is killed then replacement wont shoot mg that well.

If a commander is killed I think moral for crew drops hard

This is what I have seen in all CC campaigns. That's why crew bolts off so fast (and small guys anyways) when tank is hit, so they can pilot a new tanks with their current skills, which did happen in ww2.

Keeping a command guy or team near that greenhorn tank will help them a lot! Better yet try not to let your tanks even take casualties.

[CGGrognard]

Good point vobbnobb. Crew stasis was something that I didn't consider as these tanks exchanged shots. My big concern was losing the Tiger or Panther to the Crocidille. [:D]

[Gullyfoyle]

Hi I am new to the game. I have recently had 3 instances that when I asked my PZK IV's to fire on a Churchill III, twice from the front and once from flank, the crews replied "we can't hurt that". All the distances were 75 metres and in. I assume the PZKV IV are equipped with KwK 40 which should be able to penetrate at that distance.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks

[STIENER]

well..your not really missing anything per say. GWTC has a few issues for sure. tank pathing being a huge one. as far as your mk 4 getting a "we can't hurt that" against the Churchill mk 3....ive had that sometimes....usually with the crock tho. the crock is VERY heavily armored. its a mk 5?

in GWTC ive found that the shermans and mk 4's are pretty evenly matched the churchills and the mk 4's too....mostly. it can go either way in a tank duel with them.you have good battles and bad battles. ive played about 8 GC so far H2H.

the interesting thing with the Churchill mk 3 with the 6 pdr gun is it appears to have the APDS round and ive seen it take out a tiger or a panther...3 times now. [ im using them more to fight cats now ]

all I can tell you is in GWTC weird shit happens all the time in the tank duels.
the tank pathing is the biggest thing...total BS...you wait and see what your tanks do in the long run......FN AMAZING....