Josan versus K62

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:29 pm

Hello everybody! This thread will be a game report for my current '43 campaign against the very strong Josan.

He is playing German and is known to have quite a few very efficient tactics, which helped him in the past to actually win the game as Axis by taking all objectives required. That's why I'll try to give as good a description of this game as I can - maybe we can learn a thing or two about the less known '43 scenario from the person who is possibly the best WiR player at this moment.

Turn 1

Josan has bombed a lot my airfields and Tank Armies in the Kursk pocket. I lost about 1000 a/c and retreated most of the rest to Siberia for refitting. The greater part of Axis aviation seems to have been relocated in the north. The air space of Germany is weakly defended, Berlin got bombed this turn.

In the south he has withdrawn to the Dnepr line, leaving 3 PzKorps in the Poltava area. I am attaching an image file with the situation in this area. In the center and north he has filled the gaps in his lines and maintains his positions. The Red Army is getting reorganized for offensive operations.

loveman · Post by **loveman** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:17 pm

best of luck k62 ur gonna need it:eek:

SLAAKIE · Post by **SLAAKIE** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:59 am

GO JOSAN GO! THE GERMAN IS THE BEST IN '43! TAKE MOSCOW!

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:40 am

Turn 2

He is attacking Leningrad, indeed. All the troops of the Leningrad and Volkhov fronts got bombed and Leningrad itself got assaulted. Surprisingly, the losses were almost equal, possibly because of his aviation. I am also attacking his unit east of the city with strong forces.

Another great concentration of aviation is in the south. He is bombing a lot the troops which are on the move. I am advancing carefully, so as not to be easily encircled by his 4 PzKorps in the area.

In the center he doesn't have much air force. He has pulled back a few units for one square. Presumably, he is expecting my units to step forward to be counter-attacked.

God help Mother Russia!:)

davewolf · Post by **davewolf** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 2:47 am

If anyone of the two of yours would bother to make an AAR (After Action Report), there's still free space on my homepage...

g00dd0ggy · Post by **g00dd0ggy** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:05 am

Can I suggest attrition as a strategy? The only way the Germans can win '43 is if it becomes a mobile war. The only way this can be achieved is by luring the Soviets into committing to the offensive in a manner that opens them up for counterattack (i.e. where the Soviet armour is committed to the frontline or to deep penetrations).

To win all you need to do is close up to the new German lines slowly with strong infantry armies stiffende with tanks, keeping tank armies in reserve to deal with German counterattacks, then hammer away head to head...the losses are likely to be about equal on your attacks, and you will have to absorb casualties where the Axis armour attacks, but by winter '43 the Axis manpower shortage will become acute. At this point you can start looking at hammering the panzerwaffe aswell. Slowly but surely the lack of infantry will mean the line becomes vulnerable and either the Axis will have to withdraw or face localised breakthroughs.

In the air the Axis can boss the game in '43 though, so just work on maximising fighter cover - you don't really need the bombers anyway such is the ground superiority.

Just my opinion : )

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:16 am

Turn 3

He just got 3 of my advancing armies in the south to surrender! I had inadvertently left a gap in my front and he squeezed a PzKorps through it. I am attaching an image file with the Axis Review. The red lines represent the Soviet front, you can notice the gap. The blue arrows represent (roughly) the German attack with 3 or 4 PzKorps.

I counter-attacked one of the PzKorps and made it retreat with loss. Unfortunately, as I advanced to Poltava I stumbled into a brand new SS PzKorps that he kept as a reserve. He'll probably get a few more armies to surrender next turn by using this one, which is in top condition.

The consolation is that I got repeated attacks east of Leningrad and made his unit retreat with heavy loss. That should ease up the pressure a bit.

Losses so far:
5176/565/2746/1859
8918/1866/3968/2359

Dave,

I'll be happy to post an AAR when the game will be over. Would just a compilation of this thread do or do you want something extra?

g00dd0ggy,

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to apply it. But if I lose more armies I don't think I will be the one to win the attrition game.

loveman,

You can wish me even more good luck than that!;)

And I'm seeing lots of Slaaks again...:rolleyes:

davewolf · Post by **davewolf** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:52 am

Originally posted by K62
Dave,

I'll be happy to post an AAR when the game will be over. Would just a compilation of this thread do or do you want something extra?

300 pages of text, 10 Meg Flash animations. Just the way you like to do it, Sir.

Don't let me stop you!

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:15 am

Turn 4

Losses so far:

8331/1322/4334/2566
13793/2618/6194/2732

Josan has made another army surrender in the south. He put another unit east of Leningrad, but I got repeated attacks again and drove it off. I've made 3 units retreat west of Velikyie Luki and got a river crossing near Novgorod. Generally, I get good attacks in the north, the center is in stalemate and I get beat off in the south.

He has announced he is about to change his strategy to surprise me. I'm looking forward to it

PzB74 · Post by **PzB74** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:49 am

I'm playing the Germans in a 43 campaign against K62.
I'll post a few dry facts so you know what losses are necessary to beat the Russians : }

In mid january 1944 the losses have been:

Germany 28k squads
Soviets 58k squads

Current strength

Germany 28k squads
Soviet 58k squads

A quick summary shows that Soviet replcamements squads from 07/43 -> 01/44 have replaced 48k of the 58k lost squads.
The Germans have replaced 18k squads.

So a 1-2 kill ratio will - and is - slowly bleeding me to death.
Need at least 1-3 to have any chance of stopping the Reds.

Statistics might be dull, but they're damned hard to beat : }

I'm conducting a slow retreat now as the Russians are over the Dnepr in the south and advancing on a line from Pskov, Vitebsk, Gomel and Kiev.

I don't really think I have any hopes of stopping his advance, but I'll put up a stiff resistance. 2700 Panthers in the line and a strong Luftwaffe are my best assets.

Pulled out 6 burned out divisions and placed em in the rear.
In 6 divisions I had a grand total of 61 squads :p

The key to success is to cut of and destroy as many Soviet armies as possible, but this has been very difficult as K62 is playing a very good game...as usual :} Chopped of the 3rd last turn!
...but 3 new ones immediately grew out <G>.

Josans · Post by **Josans** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:47 pm

Originally posted by PzB
I'm playing the Germans in a 43 campaign against K62.
I'll post a few dry facts so you know what losses are necessary to beat the Russians : }

In mid january 1944 the losses have been:

Germany 28k squads
Soviets 58k squads

Current strength

Germany 28k squads
Soviet 58k squads

A quick summary shows that Soviet replcamements squads from 07/43 -> 01/44 have replaced 48k of the 58k lost squads.
The Germans have replaced 18k squads.

So a 1-2 kill ratio will - and is - slowly bleeding me to death.
Need at least 1-3 to have any chance of stopping the Reds.

Statistics might be dull, but they're damned hard to beat : }

I'm conducting a slow retreat now as the Russians are over the Dnepr in the south and advancing on a line from Pskov, Vitebsk, Gomel and Kiev.

I don't really think I have any hopes of stopping his advance, but I'll put up a stiff resistance. 2700 Panthers in the line and a strong Luftwaffe are my best assets.

Pulled out 6 burned out divisions and placed em in the rear.
In 6 divisions I had a grand total of 61 squads :p

The key to success is to cut of and destroy as many Soviet armies as possible, but this has been very difficult as K62 is playing a very good game...as usual :} Chopped of the 3rd last turn!
...but 3 new ones immediately grew out <G>.

Yes all depend how many of the russian losses will not be recoverable. Surrendering armies a ratio 1-2.3 would be fine I think.

And I agree, K62 is given me a serious headache evry turn;)

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:36 pm

Turn 5

Losses so far:

11163/1907/5892/3108
19702/3311/8655/2968

He just killed 3 more armies in the south, so I decided I've had enough and pulled back. In the north he put some Italians east of Leningrad with one German PzDivision, they got chased with repeated attacks again. A couple of squares to the south I pushed back another unit defending the river.

The break in the Velikyie Luki area is getting larger. I got repeated attacks against 2 units in the swamps. He'll probably have to pull back his southern PzKorps to defend here and then I'll finally be able to advance again against Poltava.

Don't ask me how I destroyed more aircraft than I lost. My losses also include the American a/c and the bombing of my airfields during my first turn. So I'm really surprised! (in a pleasant way, of course)

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:10 am

Originally posted by PzB

Current strength

Germany 28k squads
Soviet 58k squads

A quick summary shows that Soviet replcamements squads from 07/43 -> 01/44 have replaced 48k of the 58k lost squads.
The Germans have replaced 18k squads.

So a 1-2 kill ratio will - and is - slowly bleeding me to death.
Need at least 1-3 to have any chance of stopping the Reds.

You're missing one factor. 3000 of your squads are Finns. You have to keep some 5-7000 more squads in the west. So, while all the 58k Russian squads are on the East Front, you only have maybe less than 20k to oppose them.

Now that's how they teach math in the USSR!:D

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 4:31 am

One can read separate reports to make own comparisons.
It can become confusing seeing stats from more than one game in one thread.

As i have never played 43, i will continue to monitor this thread.
Thanks for reporting.

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 9:02 pm

Turn 6

I just cleared the swamps north of Velikyie Luki. He is beginning to throw in his armor to close the breach and had a successful counter-attack last turn.

In the south I retreated to a line running N-S through Kharkov and I'll only resume my advance in a couple of turns, after he'll take away his PzKorps.

In the center the situation is static.

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:23 pm

Turn 7 08/16/43

Total losses

Axis: 14557/2461/7746/4221
USSR:24520/4222/10434/3524

I just cleared another swamp SE of Leningrad with repeated attacks again, although it had some German PzDivision with Panthers in it.

West of Velikyie Luki there are some 3-4 PzKorps on the railroad, I'm quite cautios about advancing against them right now.

In the center there is no progress. In the south I'm starting to advance again - but with double the caution this time

Notice that the Germans have lost about 700 more aircraft by now. I don't know how and why, maybe because he's launching so many interdiction missions and having losses to flak. The Red Air Force is still in a very sorry state, just beginning to be rebuilt.

DiRaC · Post by **DiRaC** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:57 am

Very helpful for me to learn......
Expect more pictures to be attached......

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:09 pm

Turn 8

He brought a lot of tanks in the north and made a counter-attack encircling one of my units, without making it surrender though. I am attaching an image file with the situation in this area. Red arrows are Soviet attacks, blue arrows German retreats and blue squares the Germans holding.

In the center I finally made a couple of units retreat, including a PzKorps.

In the south I've adopted the 'leapfrog', like in Steel Panthers

Some of my units are advancing while others stay behind to cover their back.

Stefdragon · Post by **Stefdragon** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:52 am

K62:

I'm not getting any image on the northern front.bmp.
Anyone else?

MagnusOlsson · Post by **MagnusOlsson** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:07 am

Originally posted by Stefdragon
K62:

I'm not getting any image on the northern front.bmp.
Anyone else?

I do. It's depressing, because the infamous slaakie has pushed me further back than that

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Josan versus K62

Josan versus K62

separate games

Image

Re: Image