Really confused about supply???

[Kelen]

I need some help. First off, what is the difference between supply and fuel? Is fuel just for ships or for aircraft or for both, what gives?

My other question is how does overland supply work or does it? PM for me has a stockpile of about 30K of supply and fuel. The rest of the bases around it, even the ones connected by roads have next to nothing. Is there a way to get supplies and fuel into these bases without sending my poor transport ships to a watery grave? I am currently suppling some of the more northern bases on New G with C-47's but I would think that with a road wouldn't trucks be used?

I am just a little lost as you can tell...

Any help will be appreciated...

S

[Feinder]

I need some help. First off, what is the difference between supply and fuel?
Supply is food and bullets, fuel is for ships. Ground formations use supply all the time. Squadrons use supply for every mission they fly. Ships expend ammunition when they fight, and it uses supply points to replace it. Ships use fuel as they move about, fuel keeps them moving. Again, for ships, fuel is movement, supply is ammo. Supply for ground and planes.


Is fuel just for ships or for aircraft or for both, what gives?
Fuel is just for ships.


My other question is how does overland supply work or does it?
The only bases which "trickle" supply to neighboring bases are
Brisbane - Rockhampton - Townsville
Noumea - and those litte bases on that island.

Those are the ONLY bases which will automatically gain supply. Everything else must be manually resupplied or by using auto-convoys.

Overland supply BY UNIT is such that...

As a ground formation moves, it will attempt to draw it's "minimum supplies required" from bases to which it can trace a line of supply.

A unit that is in a base hex, will draw 100% of it's supply from the base.

A unit that is in a Highway hex (along Australia), will lose 5% supply for each hex AWAY from a base.

A unit that is in a path hex will lose 10% supply for each hex away from the base. This creates a situation where it is often useful to drop supplies into both the "to" and "from" bases, in order to "pull" your unit along (and keep it supplied).

A unit that is crossing open country will lose 50% of supply for each hex away from the base. So bascially, you can't go anywhere. You can go 1 hex (and be at 50% supply). But the second hex would put you at 0% supply, so your formation will never move there.

PM for me has a stockpile of about 30K of supply and fuel. The rest of the bases around it, even the ones connected by roads have next to nothing. Is there a way to get supplies and fuel into these bases without sending my poor transport ships to a watery grave?
Not really. Barges are free, but as USN you don't get them for a while. Your only alternative is to put CAP over them. Unescorted medium bombers will NOT attack a TF that has CAP (unless the bombers are escorted).

I am currently suppling some of the more northern bases on New G with C-47's but I would think that with a road wouldn't trucks be used?
Sorry, again the only bases that auto-supply are in Australia and New Caladonia. Those "roads" are more like "trails".

Hope this helps.
-F-

[bilbow]

Fuel is for ships only. Supply covers everything else- food, ammo, bombs, whatever.

Overland supply is very subject to attrition- for every hex traced over a trail (like from PM to Wau) a percentage is lost. So after a few hexes only a slall portion remains. Remember these are jungle trails, not roads.

The bases on the north coast really have to be supplied by ship if they are going to be used for more than inactive garrison duty. C-47s are OK for minimals levels of supply, and they won't carry fuel at all.

[dherche]

Originally posted by Feinder

I am currently suppling some of the more northern bases on New G with C-47's but I would think that with a road wouldn't trucks be used?
Sorry, again the only bases that auto-supply are in Australia and New Caladonia. Those "roads" are more like "trails".

Hope this helps.
-F-

I have to disagree.

It has been my experience that remote bases like Wau, Nadzab and even Lae (although not landlocked) will eventually receive supplies from Port Moresby as long as PM is stockpiled. Supplies will trickle up the trail. It seems like every 3rd or 4th day, supplies at PM would be knocked down (no air strikes against or bombardments). I would notice that Nadzab had gained supplies. It was never that amount that PM lost but at least some supplies are making their way up the trail.

This also works in sending supplies to Buna over the Owen Stanley Mountains...probably by pack animals.

[HawaiiFive-O]

According to the manual you lose 1% of the supplies transmitted over a road hex, 10% transmitted over a trail, and 50% overland.

Each base supplies the next in the chain. So you lose 50% from PM to Wau, then 10% from Wau to Marilinan so on and so forth.

If you take the manual at face value, then both Cairns and Cooktown WILL draw overland supply. It's been my experience that they do, but if you are running supply to PM out of Cairns you quickly drain Cairns of supply, and the automated supply AI does not compensate for the supply you are drawing out of Cairns. It's trying to keep Cairns supplied at the level that Cairns requires, it doesn't realize that you are sucking out supply to feed PM. Plus Cairns' supplies are also travelling up to Cooktown. So I find I need to supplement Cairns' overland supply with sea supply.

I've seen many posts that state that overland supply ends at Townsville. Who knows, this could be true, but I never have to resupply Cooktown, and by reading the manual it seems to imply that Cairns + Cooktown do get overland supply.

[Yamamoto]

So just what do the allies need to supply if everything in Australia is linked in some way? Supply Port Moresby? Against a decent Japanese player you won’t have to worry about supplying a base you don’t own. What do you do with all of those cargo ships?

Does anyone think it would be more fun and more of a challenge if you had to supply Australia manually from Noumea?

Yamamoto

[Feinder]

"According to the manual you lose 1% of the supplies transmitted over a road hex, 10% transmitted over a trail, and 50% overland."

Doh. I stand corrected (I'm at the office, no manual here).

Yamamato, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the only only bases that were auto-supplied were the ones along the highway in Australia, and those on New Caledonia. I could certainly have misread it tho. It's also easy enough to verify, but I'm at the office, and (unfortunately) can't play UV at the moment :^).

I presume that you are correct, that the trails from PM will supply the other bases, but I will say it is fair to offer, "Trickle supply from PM to the other over-land bases in New Guinea is marginal at best." I don't think you could sustain anything more than a small garrison at the satalite bases. The Allied player cannot expect that only trickle supply will keep his men at Wau and Buna fed. Maybe they could just "sit" there as a minor garrison unit. But to conduct operations of any sort, or while under attack, you're gonna need more than whatever wanders up the trail (at least that has been my experience).

Regards,
-F-

** Edit - Supplying Australia from Noumea. Don't you mean supplying Noumea from Australia? One is significantly larger than the other, and has quite a few resources of it's own. Would it be challenging to supply Noumea from Australia? Sure. Would I want to do it? Not really. You'd need ALOT more freighters. And it would be alot of clicking. As it stands, I spend a lot of time creating supply depots as the lines go farther north. First Noumea to Luganville. Then Neva. Then Iraru. Then Lunga. And all the while you've STILL got to maintain a constant fuel depot at Luganville. Would it be challenging? Yes. Would I really want to do it? No.

-F-

[Wilhammer]

I never depend on truck supply, it is just insignificant, if at all.

1. Why in some scenarios does Wau have 100 Fuel?

2. A potenial blance issue came up in a patch, the Australian base, like Townsville, get a very good level of supply. It is so good, you don't need to get your supply from Brisbane.

The effect this has had is that the initial supply run from Australia to Port Moresby or Gili-Gili was shortened by about half. This 'enhanced' one of the 'flaws' of this game, extremely ahistorical tempo of operations.

I, for one, think that the flow of supplies in this game is about twice what it was in the real war. Concurrently, I think the shipping is too effective. Playing this game as an historical simulation, I compare it to the history I have learned, and if we consider UV to be historical (a wargame should be at least that), then something is not right. I wonder, while playing, what the Allies were complaining about, and why the Japanese did so little with so much.

For example, the unlimited fuel the Japanese get is way off. If the Japanese had launched, say, 3 or 4 sorties into the Slot with the Yamato, they would of sucked up all the naval fuel the Japanese had for 6 months in those sorties. In the game, the Yamato can sortie out to Lunga, in theory, once a week, barring any battle damage stopping it.

But one must consider, in game design, play balance. And in that term, the Japanese entered the war totally unprepared to win it.

The plan was simple, smash, take, sue for peace. The problem was the US was not interested in suing for peace, but instead committed to "whatever it took" to crush Japan. no matter how long it took.