I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A)

[fcharton]

It sounded like a neat idea…

There I was, in the basement of the Imperial Palace, with my old friend, the Lord High Executioner, painting flowers, writing poems, eating fruits, and finishing a third bottle of the Château d’Yquem a new co-prosperous friend from Saigon sent us last week as a tribute. We were past tipsy, closing on wobbly, chatting about clothes, and ceremonies. As far as I can recall, it went like this:

- Have you seen it, Koko?
- What, your holiness?
- Stop calling me that, I’m no pope, I’m an emperor
- Would chief do?
- Yeah, better, anyway, you seen it ?
- What, chief?
- That new warlord uniform I just got. Black robe, leather and nails on the chest, and a dark metal helmet and mask that goes ’hrrr hrrr’ every time I breathe?
- Sounds cool, chief.
- Yeah, I can’t wait to try it on.
- Well, you’re supposed to attend the parade of the 1st garbage collecting squadron, tomorrow…
- I need something bigger, any great victory I could announce?
- We’re short on that, China’s a quagmire, Indochina didn’t even fight, and the Soviets didn’t cooperate the last time we tried.
- Make me one, then. Ask your navy guy, what’s his name? Yama something.

By the time the navy guy arrived, more empty bottles were on the floor and the Lord High Executioner was snoring. One thing lead to another and the next morning, at breakfast, I found out I had signed an order to attack the American fleet, in a very bold move that would probably live in infamy. Darn it!

So here we go. We will be playing stock scenario 1, with PDU off. Home rules, if any, have yet to be decided. I am starting work on the first turn, so the war should begin in a few days. Zuluhour, you're welcome for a few days...

[Lecivius]

This should be entertaining [8D]

[obvert]

I like it! Glad to see you starting another game up. I look forward to some musical updates. [:)]

[PaxMondo]

Francois,

Can't wait to follow and read!

[witpqs]

[:)]

[Bif1961]

Well it seems like Christmas came early and another wonderful AAR under my tree, or is that in my stocking?

[Mundy]

You should have fun. Kurt's a good guy to play.

[Lowpe]

Welcome back to to digital war...your AAR has been missed. Good luck!

[zuluhour]

WHATS GOING ON IN HERE?!!

[zuluhour]

WHATS GOING ON IN HERE?!!

[zuluhour]

WHATS GOING ON IN HERE?!!

[BillBrown]

Zulu, you really need to fix your multiple post problem.

[Rio Bravo]

I will be following your AAR from the beginning Francois!

Have fun.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[fcharton]

2nd of December 1941 (2S 136), Imperial Palace, the map room

- … this little piggy goes here (click), and this little piggy goes… there… and… (click)
(enters the Lord High Executioner, black gown and slippers, his ceremonial double axe in one hand, a large glass bottle with gothic letters in the other)
- hey chief, today’s 2S, care for a beer?
- Later, Eugène. Let me finish the China shuffle first (click)
(the Lord High Executioner lays down on a couch, and begins clipping his toe nails with his double axe)
- By the way, chief, I couldn’t find those pewter mugs your nervous friend from Germany sent us.
- Bet you couldn’t, first time I tried to use them, I smeared the front of my ceremonial shirt, the pale blue silk one, with lace and sequins. And no amount of physical violence exerted upon the imperial launderers and their families could get it clean again. I sent the mugs back to Adolphe, filled with assorted pieces of his cultural attaché.
- Serves him right. He must have been mad at you.
- He sure was. No way we’ll get the extra supply, oil, fuel, and the new technologies he offered a while ago. This is scenario one, Eugène, the dire straits, the harsh realities, we’re broke, no new toys, realistic research and air production, PP for borders and stacking limits. Besides, Adolphe and Ben told me they won’t help with India.
- I’s ok, chief, we got that old bushido magic, and we’ll do China instead,
- Quite so, Eugène, quite so. Speaking of which… (click, click, click) Eh, no nail clippings on my satin couch, and careful with that axe, Eugène !
- …. Aaaahhh, my pinkie, my pinkie!
- Nurse ! nurse ! There was an accident involving the Lord High Executioner…



While I am working on the first turn, here is some background, and a few ideas I would like to try.

We are playing stock scenario 1, with PDU off, stacking limits, and JWE’s new airplane statistics. We have no house rules, but we have agreed to pay full political points for units and border crossing, and I think we both want something plausible, eg no deep invasions without air cover. My opponent is an old timer, who knows the game, the history, and playing the allies. It will not be easy.

In my previous game against Spence, I had conquered all of China by summer 1942. I want to try the same but with less supply, stacking and no help from the Kwantung army. The capture of China is very desirable, as it frees units, provides industrial resources and protects the continental flank of the home islands until 1945. I believe it is feasible in scenario 1 without further commitment than the troops already in China in 1942. To achieve this, I need a quick capture of Burma and a focused approach to the Chinese theater (ie conquering one region after another, instead of trying to progress everywhere at once).

Another thing I want to change is the general planning of my conquests. In my previous game, I rushed forward, went for a small perimeter, and the expansion phase was over by September 1942. After that, I fell back in defense, bracing for the enemy advance, and conceding the initiative way too early. In this game, I want to go for a slower buildup, but to retain the initiative well into 1943. To achieve this, I would like to focus, at the beginning of the war, on enemy forces, try to reduce them (sink a few carriers, hopefully, and go for the shipping), and then strive for a larger perimeter, in order to delay enemy reconquest.

Finally, in my last game, like many other players, I tended to focus on the air force, and I limited naval construction. The general idea was that the limiting factor was oil and fuel, which the navy used (HI and fuel). The air force, on the other hand, didn’t use much fuel. Looking at recent games, I am under the impression that Japan seldom runs out of fuel, but that in many late games, supply is the real issue. So, I am tempted, this time, to focus more on the navy and invest less on planes and sorties. I am not sure how this should be done, but I want to explore this direction.

A last word about PDU off and aircraft research. Very often, only fighters get researched. I intend to focus on mid-game shipkillers as well (Judy and Jill). As for fighters, Jacks and Georges have too few squadrons upgrading to be worth the investment. I will definitely focus on the Frank, and the easy paths (Zero, Oscar, Tony). I am split about the Sam, which means investing on both models (only carrier squadrons upgrade to A7M2, all others go to A7M3-J). As for the later models, the ki-94 II has a lot of upgrades, I don’t know about the others.

[PaxMondo]

Francois,

IJN Fighter upgrades: Actually, it is worse than you state. A great many LBA groups are not defined beyond A6M. But the ones that I looked at, more groups listed A7M2 undefined than A7M3J ... but I haven't played a PDU OFF in so long I cannot even find my old analyses on it any more. If you have tallied all the groups, you may be right, but in aggregate, (LBA + CV), far more fighter groups will upgrade to A7M2 than A7M3J. I would not split the RnD, I would focus on the A7M2 only.

The A7M3J is a weird duck .. its more a NF bomber killer without the NF designation. Compared to the A7M2, you gain 10 mph, but you give up lot for that little speed increase:
SR 3
4x30mm @ 15% acc.
MAN = 18
Arrival 1/46

So against B-29's it looks pretty good. Against P47's ... A7M2 is going to be far more effective.

Read Michael's (nygiants59) AAR to see what happens with 10x30 RnD research ... particularly for realistic RnD, my minimum RnD is 10x30. Jill/Judy, I just start building 1 or 2 factories to whatever build rate I want (1x90, 2x60, ...) and they arrive when scheduled.
3x30 RnD just does so little and uses RnD factories that can be far more effective elsewhere.

Again, lacking my old notes ... I can't remember how many RnD factories IJ starts with, roughly half though, so I would put
10x30 Oscar
10x30 A6M
10x30 Frank
10x30 A7M2
Then the last stragglers on 1 each on Jill, Judy. Once Oscar/A6M are done, then you can move to other models that you might want.

You have to pursue all the Oscar/A6M line because of PDU OFF, only way to open up upgrade paths .... the sooner that happens the better ...


Just my opinion, use as you see fit ... [8D]

[PaxMondo]

Haven't found my notes (just upgraded computers and my files are in disarray as I combine several previous backups to current)

But, I did look at Scen 1 PDU OFF again ... yuck.

Anyway, 77 RnD, 19 production factories to start. Yes, most of the IJN LBA converts, at best, to A7M3J, which as I stated before is a NF configured fighter. Since you don't get enough NF airgroups, these are what you will use to makeup your needs. After the big withdrawal (13?) of IJN LBA fighter groups (440710), you have to think hard about investments.

You have to chase the A6M line, no choice. The A7M2 actually has more groups that are bigger to upgrade and it is a better fighter overall than the A7M3 ... I suspect I would convert the A6M RnD factories to A7M3J once the A6M has reached the end.

Thankfully, the IJA side of the house is MUCH better. Not only do most groups eventually convert to Frank, BUT, they also upgrade to Ki-94II (Frank II) along with most of the other groups that did NOT convert to Frank. I didn't look at all the4 IJA groups, but the big ones that did look at (49+ size and there are quite a few) all went to the Frank II. So, Frank followed by Frank II are clear RnD efforts. Again, Oscar has to be done, so I would also think to convert the Oscar RnD factories to Frank II when the Oscar is done. The Frank RnD factories would mostly convert to production with a some (?) RnD on the Frank r model.

Biggest issue is going to be managing the engines as the Frank II uses the Ha-44, Frank uses Ha-45. Most all of the late model IJN fighters use the Ha-43.

[PaxMondo]

Bombers are much simpler, for the IJA you will build Sally and Lilly the entire war. Don't forget to build out the Sally 1a. I'm not a big fan of Peggy; losing 25% of my bombload for an extra few hexes range ... and IJ bombloads are already so small compared to the allies ... the Peggy T is always interesting, but the issue in using it is pilots: you cannot train any in advance, so you have to start when you finally get it and those first few groups putting them to training groups. And we're talking about doing this in mid 44 .... its a hard sell for me, but something you have to decide and then plan on.

IJN is easy: Nell/Betty the entire war and then some Frances. And at least with Frances you don't lose any bombload, you just keep the same lousy one you started with. [:D]

[Mike Solli]

PDU off, eh? I tried that in the old WitP a long, long time ago. It sounded interesting at the time but in reality, it was a pain in the butt. [:D]. This should be fun to watch.

[Aurorus]

One thing that you want to keep in mind about R&D for fighters is the engine bonus. If you have, let us say, 8X30 on A6M R&D, and you are building, per month, between 60-90 A6M2s, 60-90 Ki-43 Ics, 20 B5N2s, 10 A6M2-Rufes, 20 A6M3s (and/or M5s by June or July), 30 Ki-45 Ia (Nicks), and 30 Lilly IIas, that is 540 Nakajima 35 engines per month with just builds and A6M2 R&D. If you shut off some production each day, such as Rufes when not needed, or Lillies, you can gain a couple of engines each day. You probably do not want to expand Nakajima 35 production much beyond 550 or so, because the engine becomes obsolete and few later war models use it.

The point that I am making is that putting a large number of factories on Oscar R&D is not efficient. I think that it is better to put fewer factories on Oscar, say 4 x 30, and ensure that there are sufficient Nakajima 35s engines to provide a bonus to the Oscar factories. Again, creating a large number of Oscar factories is inefficient, because you will not need to produce 300 Oscar IIIas or IVs late in the war. Most of your front-line squadrons will have converted out of the Oscar-line late war, except for a couple of dedicated bomber escort groups. Furthermore, it would be enormously inefficient to create enough Nak 35 engine factories to ensure that more than 4 or 5 Oscar factories have an engine for the bonus.

By only placing 4 x 30 on Oscar R&D, this should free up a few factories for A7M2 from the beginning. 8x30 A6M R&D with an engine bonus will give you the A6M8 in mid 1943, without skipping any steps. You can then convert some A6M8 factories over to A7M2 and probably receive the A7M2 in mid-late 44. I am putting 4 or 5 x30 on A7M2 in my PDU:off games now from turn 1. These are factories that I once dedicated to Oscar and late-war army fighter R&D. I plan on converting 4 or 5 A6M factories to the A7M2 in mid 1943, once the A6M8 becomes available.

These are my latest thoughts on the matter, having been convinced by Lowpe and Pax that A7M2 research from turn 1 is essential.

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: fcharton

In my previous game against Spence, I had conquered all of China by summer 1942. I want to try the same but with less supply, stacking and no help from the Kwantung army. The capture of China is very desirable, as it frees units, provides industrial resources and protects the continental flank of the home islands until 1945. I believe it is feasible in scenario 1 without further commitment than the troops already in China in 1942. To achieve this, I need a quick capture of Burma and a focused approach to the Chinese theater (ie conquering one region after another, instead of trying to progress everywhere at once).

Another thing I want to change is the general planning of my conquests. In my previous game, I rushed forward, went for a small perimeter, and the expansion phase was over by September 1942. After that, I fell back in defense, bracing for the enemy advance, and conceding the initiative way too early. In this game, I want to go for a slower buildup, but to retain the initiative well into 1943. To achieve this, I would like to focus, at the beginning of the war, on enemy forces, try to reduce them (sink a few carriers, hopefully, and go for the shipping), and then strive for a larger perimeter, in order to delay enemy reconquest.

I very much like this strategic outlook. If the Japanese player is successful in destroying allied assets in the early going while preserving his own force, the Japanese player can stay on the offensive longer. This is, in my opinion, more important than focusing exclusively on a rapid advance. Of course, against a Sir Robin strategy, the Japanese player must advance rapidly in order to engage before the allied positions are reinforced in strength.

I agree that you can accomplish much in China without a futher commitment of troops and limiting the use of supply. If you can defeat the whole of China without committing further assets and limiting supply use, this is optimal for Japan and will make a decisive allied victory very difficult to achieve.