Problem with victory conditions in Panzerkrieg Stalingrad Oblast scenario

[slim00]

In this scenario, once a corridor is opened to relieve the Stalingrad pocket, the victory objectives indicates a successful relief of the Stalingrad pocket, but an unsuccessful defense of the two objectives in the Chir River line. I am holding all four of the objectives, and only one was ever taken by the Soviet forces during play.

[bru888]

I took a look at the objective fail trigger and I cannot see why it would not work properly. All you should need to do is hold on to just two of those secondary VPs until end of scenario, let alone three VPs.

[slim00]

My victory conditions lists holding the Chir River line as Primary, not Secondary. I see the screen above, but do not understand all the settings. I do see this objective listed on the left part of the screen as "Secondary" while on the right side it is listed as "Primary"? I would attach a screen capture showing my victory conditions and the fact that I hold all four victory objectives, but I don't know how to create and attach as you did.

[bru888]

ORIGINAL: slim00

My victory conditions lists holding the Chir River line as Primary, not Secondary. I see the screen above, but do not understand all the settings. I do see this objective listed on the left part of the screen as "Secondary" while on the right side it is listed as "Primary"? I would attach a screen capture showing my victory conditions and the fact that I hold all four victory objectives, but I don't know how to create and attach as you did.

Good observation about "Secondary" and "Primary" but in this case, "Secondary" refers to the type of victory points (VP Type) and all four of those points on or near the Chir River are secondary VP's. It just so happens, though, that the designers decided to make a "Primary" objective be the holding of at least two of those secondary VP's at all times - see the screen print below.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't think there is a bug here. I could be wrong, but I don't see any other mention of this, especially on the Slitherine forum which is much more active than this one.

Slim, please do two things:

1) If your game version is not up to 5.2.3 by having auto-updated, find out why. This thread would be a good starting point because there is a link to a manual (64-bit) patch if needed:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 72&t=81169

2) While you are over there, look around and see if anybody else has brought this issue up. Usually by now, you would see a thread or two dealing with something like this.

[slim00]

I verified I have version 5.2.3; I follow the info on Primary objective requiring two Secondary objective VP's. I lost and regained one of the four VP's, but never lost the other three. The Germans are now holding two of the four, and the Romanians hold the other two; would that have something to do with success or failure? I see "Alliance" selections on the screens, but don't know what those selections mean. I checked the Slitherine forums and found nothing on this scenario.

[slim00]

I still believe the possible problem is linked to the relieving of the Stalingrad pocket: I have played this twice and both times the victory conditions were indicating "? Hold Two VPs in the Chir River Line ....4/2" and "? Relieve the encircled 6th Army" when I opened a corridor to relieve the 6th Army. On the next turn, the victory conditions change to: "X Hold Two VPs in the Chir River Line ....4/2" and "(check mark) Relieve the encircled 6th Army". Both conditions were updated, but nothing had changed on the Chir River line?

[slim00]

Last point: at the beginning of the scenario, there are three Primary objectives and two Secondary. At some point, this changes to two Primary objectives and three Secondary (the "Relieve the encircled 6th Army" moves to the Secondary objectives list). Why is that?

[bru888]

It's late here. I'll come back tomorrow and post again. Interesting discussion; I'm not saying you don't have a point. These scenarios are very complicated and who knows? Maybe you are the first person to notice something (and post about it). The switch of primary and secondary objectives rings a bell; they were talking about it in beta. I want to take a look at it, too. Talk to you tomorrow.

[bru888]

I have some answers but not the one that you wanted, unfortunately.

The Germans are now holding two of the four, and the Romanians hold the other two; would that have something to do with success or failure? I see "Alliance" selections on the screens, but don't know what those selections mean.

The Hold Chir River Line WIN/FAIL triggers both require that the grey alliance be in charge of those secondary victory points. The human player controls the grey alliance and that alliance is comprised of German, Romanian, and Kriegsmarine nations/factions. Any of those three would qualify to hold the VP's.

[bru888]

I still believe the possible problem is linked to the relieving of the Stalingrad pocket . . .

When you establish a supply link, the objective updated is only about the encircled army, not the Chir River VP's. A sharp eye will see two Set Objective State effects but both of them are about the army; one addresses the primary objective version and the other the secondary objective version (see next post).

[bru888]

At some point, either before turn 5 if you advance too far, or on turn 5 regardless, the Soviets launch the Little Saturn counterattack. By design, that is when the "Relieve the encircled 6th army" objective goes from Primary to Secondary (as indicated by the top one having the box to the left of it lit up in the beginning; during the scenario, that's turned off and the other is turned on).

[bru888]

That's it for the good news, if you can call it that. The bad news is, after looking at it several times now, I cannot see why you would fail the Chir River line objective if you always held at least two of those secondary VP's. The scenario does appear to be working properly; below is a victory screen posted late in beta by one of the testers. I will continue to watch for any mention of an issue over in the Slitherine forum and if I see anything, I will come back here and post.

[slim00]

Thank you for all your research; I am looking at your last post of the victory screen and noticed two things different from the one I get: the "Hold 2 VPs in the Chir River line" has a green check mark instead of the red x I get, but the other difference is the "4/2" indicator has moved from the "Hold 2 VPs in the Chir River line" objective to the "Secure the bridge over the Myshkova" objective. Why? I thought the "4/2" was part of the Chir River line objective?

[slim00]

I re-played the Stalingrad Oblast scenario from the beginning, being careful not to loose a single VP for the Chir River line. I achieved victory on turn 21 without loosing any Chir River VPs; however, I still believe there is a problem with the victory conditions for this scenario. Twice before I lost only one Chir River VP and failed the victory conditions.